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Thread: Foster's shooting

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Foster's shooting

    Okay, in the Denver thread a few weeks ago some folks had a total meltdown when I questioned how useful Foster's 12 offensive boards were that night. I feel like I successfully defended the point when I went down the list of each of his credited O-boards for that game showing how often they were from his own misses or were just slaps at the ball rather than a true new possession.

    So I'm browsing the stats today and looking at shooting for December. As I skim the numbers most things look as expected. I noticed that Jack's shot is coming around and with his FTs his PPS is one of the better totals for the team this month (good sign) and while looking at other decent minutes players I suddenly saw a Pacer with a SUB 1.00 PPS...less than 1 make per 2 shots (with no FTs at all).

    Who was it? Jeff Foster. 0.96 PPS, 34% from the floor. Think about that. Review his shot charts. Jeff isn't shooting from JO spots, let alone from the outside like Al or Granger.

    34% on an almost exclusive diet of inside passes and offensive rebound "putbacks" (if you can call slap shots a putback). Do you realize just how awful the 34% figure is for a rebound specialist PF? Guys like Dale would throw it down at 55% or better since almost everything was a dunk or layup.

    His shooting makes Tinsley's December effort look good...and it's not. Both of them have been the kings of the blown 1 foot attempt.

    Not sure what it means, I just know it sucks for Pacers fans. That's a lot of points being left on the floor every night that are very makeable.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    This isn't anything new... it was to the point last year that I would hear people call missing an easy layup "pulling a Foster" or "Fostering that one," and so on.
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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    This isn't anything new... it was to the point last year that I would hear people call missing an easy layup "pulling a Foster" or "Fostering that one," and so on.
    I've commented quite often about players blowing layups/dunks by saying "He Fostered that bunny"... "Ohhhhh...Nooooo... He Fostered it!"

    Any player can "Foster" a gimme.... but only Foster can do it with regularity.







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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    The worst part is, there's no reason he shouldn't be making those, along with short jumpers. I think Jeff will have to see a therapist if he ever plans on hitting those shots reliably, at this point.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood View Post
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    This isn't anything new... it was to the point last year that I would hear people call missing an easy layup "pulling a Foster" or "Fostering that one," and so on.
    Gnome and I were discussing it during the Jazz game, and I've long since realized that both Jeff and Tinsley are kings of leaving it short from up close.

    That's why I often defend Tinsley. Not for missing, but against the idea that his shot selection is poor. It's not (usually), it's just that when you miss 8 shots in the paint your FG% looks like crap, and then when people reflect on it they think of those other long shots you missed instead.


    However, I started the thread because Foster's FG% is crazy low, even by Jeff standards. He's been above 50% the last 2 years and is even at 45% for the year this season. It's just that lately..."ack!" to quote Bill the Cat.

    Maybe the new/old ball will fix the problem.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    The Pacers are averaging 95.8ppg this season. What do you think that number would be if Jeff made 55% of his field goals?

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Let's put it this way. If Foster was the kicker on a football team, he would bring the excitement back to the extra point attempt!

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    I've read this thread several times and I've been trying to decide whether I should respond and if so how should I respond.

    I want to ask a question.

    What do you think would be a good shooting percentage for Jeff - what should he be shooting?

    1) I would guess there is one shot attempt per game that is what I call a Hail Mary. The one where Jeff barely gets a fingertip on the ball (above, around, between, under two defenders) but Jeff is able to tip it towards the basket, but it really has no chance of going in. But maybe it hits the rim or glass and maybe either Jeff or some other Pacer is able to put it back in. So the Pacers score when otherwise they wouldn't.

    If we just throw that one attempt per game out, then Jeff is shooting 61% for the season.

    OK, so you think that is crazy - alright .

    2) what about the times Jeff has multiple tips, multiple shot attempts in a row. I would like to know what % of the time either Jeff eventually gets the ball in the basket or the Pacers score on the possession anyway. I'm sure it is a lot higher than 45%.


    I could go on and on with similar type of things, but let me stop right here and answer the question of "how many points is left on the floor every night because of Jeff. My answer - very few. If someone would go back and watch every minute Jeff has played and if they did a complete breakdown of his shots missed, and how often the Pacers scored on those possessions anyway and how many extra possesions Jeff has gotten for the team to begin with - Jeff shooting at 45% is a net plus for the Pacers offense. I'm not saying Jeff is a net plus for the Pacers defense or rebounding - we already know that - but Jeff is a net plus for the Pacers offense.

    Having said all that, Jeff should be shooting about 55% and I believe by the end of the season he will be. He's had a few "horrible" games recently, but that won't last.

    I do find it interesting that Jeff is being "graded" on his shooting. Are we going to start "grading" Tinsley on his shot blocking. I know that is a crazy comparison - but it is worth mentioning

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    I've said the same thing about Foster a number of times.

    The best way to do this is to pull the play-by-play, as you can occasionally find in the archives.

    The only way to properly count his ORs is to subtact his missed putbacks.

    Lots of fans cheer about the "great hustle" but the hustle when he gets 2 or more offensive rebounds on the same play but it wouldn't even be necessary if he had any basketball skills beyond just having a knack for where the ball is going.

    Jeff Foster might be the second-most overrated player in the league.

    Behind Stehpen Jackson.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I do find it interesting that Jeff is being "graded" on his shooting. Are we going to start "grading" Tinsley on his shot blocking. I know that is a crazy comparison - but it is worth mentioning
    We'll make a deal - we won't need to grade Jeff on his shooting when he has enough strength and discipline to control a rebound cleanly and pass it to somebody else.

    Why does he think he should attempt a putback anyway? He shoots a Stephen Jackson like percentage on so-called high percentage shots.

    For all the angst over Stephen Jackson shooting a low percentage on low-percentage shots (which I'm happy to complain about, of course), at least we can wish he'd attempt better shots. Jeff... well, he just needs to accept this limitation on his game and pass the ball.

    I think the shot charts would show us that Jeff's 8-to-10 foot jumper actually increases his FG% over his put-back %. Now that's scary, but I know I feel better with that shot than when I watch his put-back efforts.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I do find it interesting that Jeff is being "graded" on his shooting. Are we going to start "grading" Tinsley on his shot blocking. I know that is a crazy comparison - but it is worth mentioning
    Career BPG:
    Tinsley: .3
    Foster: .3
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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Career BPG:
    Tinsley: .3
    Foster: .3


    :

    MagicRat making a "basketball post". Priceless.
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    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I've read this thread several times and I've been trying to decide whether I should respond and if so how should I respond.

    I want to ask a question.

    What do you think would be a good shooting percentage for Jeff - what should he be shooting?

    1) I would guess there is one shot attempt per game that is what I call a Hail Mary. The one where Jeff barely gets a fingertip on the ball (above, around, between, under two defenders) but Jeff is able to tip it towards the basket, but it really has no chance of going in. But maybe it hits the rim or glass and maybe either Jeff or some other Pacer is able to put it back in. So the Pacers score when otherwise they wouldn't.

    If we just throw that one attempt per game out, then Jeff is shooting 61% for the season.

    OK, so you think that is crazy - alright .

    2) what about the times Jeff has multiple tips, multiple shot attempts in a row. I would like to know what % of the time either Jeff eventually gets the ball in the basket or the Pacers score on the possession anyway. I'm sure it is a lot higher than 45%.


    I could go on and on with similar type of things, but let me stop right here and answer the question of "how many points is left on the floor every night because of Jeff. My answer - very few. If someone would go back and watch every minute Jeff has played and if they did a complete breakdown of his shots missed, and how often the Pacers scored on those possessions anyway and how many extra possesions Jeff has gotten for the team to begin with - Jeff shooting at 45% is a net plus for the Pacers offense. I'm not saying Jeff is a net plus for the Pacers defense or rebounding - we already know that - but Jeff is a net plus for the Pacers offense.

    Having said all that, Jeff should be shooting about 55% and I believe by the end of the season he will be. He's had a few "horrible" games recently, but that won't last.

    I do find it interesting that Jeff is being "graded" on his shooting. Are we going to start "grading" Tinsley on his shot blocking. I know that is a crazy comparison - but it is worth mentioning
    Finally a voice of reason! .

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    I don't understand factoring out "Hail Mary" shot attempts. Those count as rebounds and so positively effect a statistical view of Foster. The fact that they weigh down his FG% would seem to be an evening out of the situation. After all, how useful is a "rebound" that can only be used for a "Hail Mary" attempt at a score? And I definately don't agree with simply reducing his FG attempts by one to account for them, especially since any made "Hail Mary"s are already factored positively into his FG% so just taking a shot attempt off his % is counting all his made ones and taking out all his missed ones (and probably a whole lot more since I doubt these "Hail Mary"s comprise 25% of his shot attempts).

    As for the "what happens eventually" argument, how does that factor in? You already see his offensive rebound numbers and his fg% so you can have a perspective on how often he eventually gets the ball in the bucket (82games has his current "Tip Ins" e% at .364 and comprising 10% of his shot attempts). Is someone else getting a rebound off of a Foster miss supposed to count positively for Foster? Does it count positive for whoever shot the attempt that Foster rebounded in the first place?

    I'm really dissapointed in the lack of "hoop in the driveway" jokes in here.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    IMO...Jeff's hasty attempts at putbacks is a byproduct from years of typically not getting the foul call on his putback attempts. Add to the fact he isn't a very good free throw shooter and he probably thinks getting the ball back up on the rim as quickly as possible gives him the best chance at getting points out of his efforts.... at least he's keeping the ball alive for another Pacer to clean it up or reset. There is alot of value in that.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I've commented quite often about players blowing layups/dunks by saying "He Fostered that bunny"... "Ohhhhh...Nooooo... He Fostered it!"

    Any player can "Foster" a gimme.... but only Foster can do it with regularity.







    -Bball
    Hilarious! Sad, but hilarious!!

    Jeff's never been a scorer. Any time he gets a double-double is from somebody else's missed opportunity or as Naptown points out, "a seemingly easy missed layup or tapped ball underneath the basket". Rarely have I seen him take a wide opened FGA and make it! Next to Scott Pollard, Jeff has the uglist shot I've ever seen! But, he's not here to score the ball. He's here to give everyone else those 2nd-shot attempts. And if he manages to get a putback or two here or there...

    Trouble is, he's not even getting the "gimme's" these days. I think that has to do with the way he views himself - a garbage scorer rather than an aggressive scorer even on those seemingly simple "gimme's". If he would dare to grab the ball and attack the basket or put it on the floor once and go back up with force or take a shot from the floor every once in a while I think his scoring output would increase even if he was scoring from the line vice the field from all the fouls he'd collect. Foster just needs to rethink "Fostering".

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
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    I don't understand factoring out "Hail Mary" shot attempts. Those count as rebounds and so positively effect a statistical view of Foster. The fact that they weigh down his FG% would seem to be an evening out of the situation. After all, how useful is a "rebound" that can only be used for a "Hail Mary" attempt at a score? And I definately don't agree with simply reducing his FG attempts by one to account for them, especially since any made "Hail Mary"s are already factored positively into his FG% so just taking a shot attempt off his % is counting all his made ones and taking out all his missed ones (and probably a whole lot more since I doubt these "Hail Mary"s comprise 25% of his shot attempts).

    As for the "what happens eventually" argument, how does that factor in? You already see his offensive rebound numbers and his fg% so you can have a perspective on how often he eventually gets the ball in the bucket (82games has his current "Tip Ins" e% at .364 and comprising 10% of his shot attempts). Is someone else getting a rebound off of a Foster miss supposed to count positively for Foster? Does it count positive for whoever shot the attempt that Foster rebounded in the first place?


    No, but it certainly helps the team. I don't really care whether it positively impacts Jeff or not, that means nothing to me. What does mean a lot to me is the impact Jeff has on the Pacers team. And I've said for several seasons now the Pacers are a better team when Jeff is on the floor. This season was the season, OK, now is the time for jeff to be replaced, well we tried that and look we went back to Jeff. That speaks volumes to me.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Every time I see the title of this thread "Foster's shooting" I think "Did Sjax shoot him?"



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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by ALF68 View Post
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    Finally a voice of reason! I think that the more appropriate question would be, why does the thread starter feel the need to start a thread bashing Foster.
    I don't think Naptown's bashing Foster, but rather trying to point out how the team's PPG would increase if he were to make more of those low-percentage shots as opposed to say Al, Granger, Tinsley or Sarunas missing their high-percentage 3PAs or last second buzzer beaters.

    UB makes a good point in that Foster's offensive rebounds that were initially "gimme taps" that didn't go it but were eventually kicked back out and putback for the score by someone else shouldn't really count against him except...

    When you consider the time of possession wasted by him not scoring the ball in the first place. Now, I seriously doubt anyone will be able to determine just how many additional possessions the Pacers lost because he didn't score the ball on an easy layup and the Pacers eventually lost the game. By contrast, I doubt anyone will be able to say for sure how many games were won by Foster providing that 2nd shot attempt that was putback for the score. So, in all actuality, this "debate" is a wash. But...

    It is interesting to note that someone else who is a fan has noticed the missed opportunities by a beloved players who simply needs to be more aggressive with his game and rethink his approach to those "gimme's".

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No, but it certainly helps the team. I don't really care whether it positively impacts Jeff or not, that means nothing to me. What does mean a lot to me is the impact Jeff has on the Pacers team. And I've said for several seasons now the Pacers are a better team when Jeff is on the floor. This season was the season, OK, now is the time for jeff to be replaced, well we tried that and look we went back to Jeff. That speaks volumes to me.
    Sure, I understand and would probably agree that overall Foster is a positive for the team (and his shooting can't be that much of a negative when he only shoots 4 times a game anyway). But you were talking about adding in things to a statistical view of Foster to show that his contributions to the offense are a positive in itself, "I'm not saying Jeff is a net plus for the Pacers defense or rebounding - we already know that - but Jeff is a net plus for the Pacers offense." So if you are going to count some of Foster's misses as a positive because they eventually end up in points for the Pacers then you have to do the same when comparing him to the rest of the team (to analyze if he's a net positive to the offense) and I don't think that will end up helping Foster as the rest of the team has Foster rebounding for them while Foster (in the situation you've drawn up) does not.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Isn't it funny to see other people rushing to defend Foster on a legit stat issue. Now you know where I'm coming from with Jackson sometimes.

    BTW, I hope you noticed that when I put a big chunk of blame on him (Jack) for blowing critical chances down the stretch vs the Jazz I was immediately labeled a Jackson hater. Pretty much sums up how insanely biased people can get.

    Me, I'm equal opportunity complainer or supporter. I already noted that even for Jeff this is a terrible stretch of shooting. Normally he's a 50%+ guy.


    As for the tip-ins and stuff, what about all the times he has been FED THE BALL at the rim and missed the shot. That's been part of the problem as well. The DEN game saw his stats padded out, and 2 of his rebounds there were actually tips by OTHER PLAYERS that he got credit for. (edit, incorrect credit given Jeff)

    Frankly I don't feel wrong for expecting the big on the receiving end of a PnR that puts the ball in his hands at the rim to MAKE THE SHOT.

    As for the "how much does it REALLY cost" angle, the point is easily made in defense of Jackson and Tinsley's shooting as well then. If Jack's FG% is good on just 1 more make per then it's only 2 points and that doesn't win games anymore than the extra point or two that Jeff loses with inside misses that need to go down at 55-60%


    Back to Jeff. Just look at the Utah shot chart.
    Disgusting. 3rd quarter, 2 shots at the rim, 2 misses, 2 offensive boards. Subtract the FGMiss from the O-reb. Now he's 0-1 with 4 total rebounds.

    O-rebound on a Tins miss, fouled, 1-2 FTs. A legit chance at a 3pt play even, and certainly no better than an average outcome for the extra possession.

    2 more O-boards, Tins misses layup off of first, Foster misses putback off the other.

    The Utah tally for his 5 offensive boards, ONE POINT.

    His other 2 points did come off FTs on his defensive board. But the bottom line is you had virtually nothing come from his offensive rebounding and no other offense from him at all. So what did he contribute? He gave up a possession on an offensive foul and gave up a FTA on a defensive lane violation (FT missed).

    If he had just scored those 3 buckets inside he might have been looking at only 3 offensive boards, but a 3-3 night with 8 or 9 points (if he makes the and-1).

    Tinsley is shooting better than Jeff this month, and actually lost 3.5% from his FG% with that 3-18 "gem" vs Utah. He was 42.4 coming into the game while Jeff was 36.3 before his 0-3. Jackson came in at 45.4 before going 3-10 vs Utah (and his 30-32 FTs has his PPS at a nice 1.29 for the month, Utah included).

    The point remains that if you take away all the worthless rebounds that become no points due to his miss, or are falsely created by inside misses that should have just been made in the first place then what do you have? A 6 rpg guy getting 6 ppg on 50% shooting.

    Not awful, but not what you'd like from the starting rebounding specialist PF/C. He's clearly had a bad month. It's okay to realize and admit this, doesn't make you a bad fan or a Jeff hater.

    I think the team is playing much better ball with Jeff in the starting lineup. I just think he's been terrible with putbacks the last month or so, something he's had problems with in the past.



    extra example - the NY game
    1 o-board, missed layup (JO board and score)
    1 o-board, missed layup (Marbury rebound)
    1 o-board, kicks out and Pacers get no score on possession
    1 o-board, missed layup (Pacers get team rebound, Saras 14s later makes shot)
    1 o-board, pass and JO misses inside shot
    1 o-board, missed layup (Foster then fouls, NY ball)
    1 o-board, kicks out and Al later misses shot, no score for possession

    So 7 offensive boards, 4 of which were wasted on missed putbacks, 3 others that become nothing. The 2 times his activity inside was in any way part of a score was when JO followed Foster's layup miss for a rebound and score and when the ball got tipped out for a team rebound and eventually became a Sarunas make.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Interesting points by Waxman and NuffSaid (avoiding fouls/FTAs and not seeing himself in an aggressive Dale Davis power finish way).


    ALF, even after the earlier issue you have followed me all over the board and targeted my opinion specifically, often by name. You made your case to the mods about your legit desire to be here and that you in no way had a prior connection to me. I've had you on ignore, maybe try the same solution and live up to your end of the deal.

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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Isn't it funny to see other people rushing to defend Foster on a legit stat issue. Now you know where I'm coming from with Jackson sometimes.

    BTW, I hope you noticed that when I put a big chunk of blame on him (Jack) for blowing critical chances down the stretch vs the Jazz I was immediately labeled a Jackson hater. Pretty much sums up how insanely biased people can get.

    Me, I'm equal opportunity complainer or supporter. I already noted that even for Jeff this is a terrible stretch of shooting. Normally he's a 50%+ guy.


    As for the tip-ins and stuff, what about all the times he has been FED THE BALL at the rim and missed the shot. That's been part of the problem as well. The DEN game saw his stats padded out, and 2 of his rebounds there were actually tips by OTHER PLAYERS that he got credit for. (edit, incorrect credit given Jeff)

    Frankly I don't feel wrong for expecting the big on the receiving end of a PnR that puts the ball in his hands at the rim to MAKE THE SHOT.

    As for the "how much does it REALLY cost" angle, the point is easily made in defense of Jackson and Tinsley's shooting as well then. If Jack's FG% is good on just 1 more make per then it's only 2 points and that doesn't win games anymore than the extra point or two that Jeff loses with inside misses that need to go down at 55-60%


    Back to Jeff. Just look at the Utah shot chart.
    Disgusting. 3rd quarter, 2 shots at the rim, 2 misses, 2 offensive boards. Subtract the FGMiss from the O-reb. Now he's 0-1 with

    O-rebound on a Tins miss, fouled, 1-2 FTs. A legit chance at a 3pt play even, and certainly no better than an average outcome for the extra possession.

    2 more O-boards, Tins misses layup off of first, Foster misses putback off the other.

    The Utah tally for his 5 offensive boards, ONE POINT.

    His other 2 points did come off FTs on his defensive board. But the bottom line is you had virtually nothing come from his offensive rebounding and no other offense from him at all. So what did he contribute? He gave up a possession on an offensive foul and gave up a FTA on a defensive lane violation (FT missed).

    If he had just scored those 3 buckets inside he might have been looking at only 3 offensive boards, but a 3-3 night with 8 or 9 points (if he makes the and-1).

    Tinsley is shooting better than Jeff this month, and actually lost 3.5% from his FG% with that 3-18 "gem" vs Utah. He was 42.4 coming into the game while Jeff was 36.3 before his 0-3. Jackson came in at 45.4 before going 3-10 vs Utah (and his 30-32 FTs has his PPS at a nice 1.29 for the month, Utah included).

    The point remains that if you take away all the worthless rebounds that become no points due to his miss, or are falsely created by inside misses that should have just been made in the first place then what do you have? A 6 rpg guy getting 6 ppg on 50% shooting.

    Not awful, but not what you'd like from the starting rebounding specialist PF/C. He's clearly had a bad month. It's okay to realize and admit this, doesn't make you a bad fan or a Jeff hater.

    I think the team is playing much better ball with Jeff in the starting lineup. I just think he's been terrible with putbacks the last month or so, something he's had problems with in the past.



    extra example - the NY game
    1 o-board, missed layup (JO board and score)
    1 o-board, missed layup (Marbury rebound)
    1 o-board, kicks out and Pacers get no score on possession
    1 o-board, missed layup (Pacers get team rebound, Saras 14s later makes shot)
    1 o-board, pass and JO misses inside shot
    1 o-board, missed layup (Foster then fouls, NY ball)
    1 o-board, kicks out and Al later misses shot, no score for possession

    So 7 offensive boards, 4 of which were wasted on missed putbacks, 3 others that become nothing. The 2 times his activity inside was in any way part of a score was when JO followed Foster's layup miss for a rebound and score and when the ball got tipped out for a team rebound and eventually became a Sarunas make.
    If I wasn't so lazy I could do what you have done to Foster to any player on this team. Take this post for instance, you spend 99% of the post saying how bad Jeff is then at the end you throw him a bone to make it appear that you are being impartial, what a concept.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Interesting points by Waxman and NuffSaid (avoiding fouls/FTAs and not seeing himself in an aggressive Dale Davis power finish way).


    ALF, even after the earlier issue you have followed me all over the board and targeted my opinion specifically, often by name. You made your case to the mods about your legit desire to be here and that you in no way had a prior connection to me. I've had you on ignore, maybe try the same solution and live up to your end of the deal.
    Seth, if you would take the time to read my posts, you would find that they are not even close to following you all over this board. I respond to posts and threads that I believe need to be countered and shed light on, and if your posts just happen to be one of those, than too bad. Why do you believe that you can start a thread bashing Foster and not get some negative feedback on it? UB, more or less responded to your thread in the same vein that I have, and do you call him out for following you all over the board. My problem with this thread is that You want people to believe that you are impartial, while kicking Foster to the curb. Now, I think that you have a tremendous knowledge of the game and compose many good posts, however I think that you discredit yourself with this kind of thread.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Foster's shooting

    Alf,

    I'm not sure if you're "shadowing" Naptown or not (stalking is such a strong term and has such a negative connotation ), but the essence of what Naptown's saying is pretty sound. Using the Nugget's game (12/02) as an example:

    Foster's stat line:

    FGs: 3-13
    3P: 0-0
    FTs: 2-2
    Rbs: Off-12, Def-6; TOT: 18
    Pts: 8

    Now, how many of those 12 offensive rebounds were close in under the basket? And how many of those 13 FGAs were actually attempts at tipping the ball in the basket? For that game, the Pacers lost by 20 pts (101-121), BUT...

    Had Foster gone 10-13 instead, got to the line and made 6 or 7 FTs...?

    Foster's revised stat line:

    FGs: 10-13
    3P: 0-0
    FTs: 8-10
    Rbs: Off-12, Def-6; TOT: 18
    Pts: 28

    Those extra 20 pts most certainly would have affected the outcome of the game...kinda depends on how aggressive Jeff was and who among the Nuggest exactly got into foul trouble. (It very well could have been the one player or players who ultimately had an affect on the game in favor of the Nuggest, whereas, more assertive and aggressive play by Foster could have made the Nuggets approach the game alittle differently.)

    So, I think all Naptown's saying is those "gimme's", which are freebies for the most part because Foster's moving w/o the ball and is therefore freer to roam than Al or JO, should be near instant points for him, and they're not for whatever reason. Alittle more assertiveness with his approach to scoring the ball and a game like this one might not have gotten away.

    And just to clarify: I'm in no way saying Foster was to blame for this or any other lose this team has had this season. For in this game I used as an example, the 26 TO's killed the Pacers all by themselves. However, just consider for a moment what those additional 8 "gimme's" would have meant to the team had the Pacers took better care of the ball on top of Foster actually making those extra putbacks?

    (Sidenote: For December, the Nuggets game was the only game where Foster took +10 FGAs. Therefore, I used that game to illustrate how the extra scoring could have changed the outcome of the game. In the other games, Foster took btwn 2-9 FGAs and as such, his extra proposed FGs probably wouldn't have changes the outcome of the game much, if at all. The Nuggets game was, therefore, the best game to use to illustrate how his extra scoring could have impacted the game with a win for the Pacers.)

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