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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Do the Pacers need better marketing?

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  • Do the Pacers need better marketing?

    This may seem like a silly question, but when I was at the game Friday I noticed that the stadium was quite empty. I was talking to Since about it a little but and he said he was even a little surprised at how empty it was.

    Now I realize some will say that winning cures all, but I do remember some games in the 61 win season where the Fieldhouse did not looked all that packed.

    Is this just a case of the NBA being to long and people not having interest in 41 home games, are the fans just plain fickle and show up on a hit and miss basis, are they waiting for the team to start winning, or does the Pacers PR and Marketing staff need to step their game up?

  • #2
    Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

    Its the Colts. They do plenty of advertising and if a ticket salesman gets a hold of your phone number he feels the need to call you every other day.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

      The PR staff has a huge challenge right now. The Pacers have had a number of issues since the brawl, and since Reggie called it quits, there are many fans who feel alienated from this team. The off-court issues have made things worse.

      The Pacers need to win some games, they need to stay out of trouble, and they have to show serious effort day in and day out.

      In the meantime, clever marketing to get fans in the fieldhouse is always a good idea.
      When you're playing against a stacked deck, compete even harder. Show the world how much you'll fight for the winners circle. If you do, someday the cellophane will crackle off a fresh pack, one that belongs to you, and the cards will be stacked in your favor.
      -Pat Riley

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

        Sometimes it's hard to get out to a game on a Tuesday night.
        I'm in these bands
        The Humans
        Dr. Goldfoot
        The Bar Brawlers
        ME

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

          Colts + cold xMas season + no Reggie anymore + small market + mediocre record + a bunch of new relatively unknown players....

          ...oh yeah, and four players getting involved in a shooting incident at a strip club right before the beginning of the season, right in the middle of what was actually a decent/clever marketing campaign (by Pacer standards)...

          Not exactly a recipe for record-breaking ticket sales.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

            Indiana's attendance rankings.

            '02-'03 15th
            '03-'04 15th
            '04-'05 17th
            '05-'06 24th
            '06-'07 21st


            While their ranking has changed the actual number really hasn't.

            '02-'03 16,352
            '03-'04 16,556
            '04-'05 16,994
            '05-'06 16,179
            '06-'07 16,572
            I'm in these bands
            The Humans
            Dr. Goldfoot
            The Bar Brawlers
            ME

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

              Originally posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
              Indiana's attendance rankings.

              '02-'03 15th
              '03-'04 15th
              '04-'05 17th
              '05-'06 24th
              '06-'07 21st


              While their ranking has changed the actual number really hasn't.

              '02-'03 16,352
              '03-'04 16,556
              '04-'05 16,994
              '05-'06 16,179
              '06-'07 16,572
              I don't believe those attendance numbers. Maybe, somehow, that is tickets sold (plus whatever is given away) but I don't think the Pacers are averaging that amount of butts in the seats.

              I'm basing this on what I saw last year at the games I attended with a little bit factored in on what I saw at the one game I attended this season plus the amount of empty seats the TV cameras are picking up.

              Maybe I'm off base but I just don't think the numbers add up to butts in the seats.... anybody think those numbers are an accurate count of people in the stands (on average)?

              -Bball
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                I think the Pacers need the Colts to start losing on a regular basis. I've long held that this city doesn't have room in it's collective conscious for 2 professional teams.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                  Originally posted by Eindar View Post
                  I think the Pacers need the Colts to start losing on a regular basis. I've long held that this city doesn't have room in it's collective conscious for 2 professional teams.
                  If you are a mediocre team you'll get mediocre support. As you build your teams, you'll build fans in the seats. Yes, if the Colts started losing there might be a few more dollars that would go thru Conseco's gates BUT not unless the product was solid. And not enough to really make that big of a difference.

                  Indiana is no different than anywhere in that they will support a winner... anything less... and the support will be less.

                  But I believe a core goup and even some more casual fans would also support a team that is building towards something as long as the fans can see the light at the end of the tunnel and the community can get on board. So 'winning' isn't always about the final score. But you really have to be building something, you can only sell snake oil for so long or else it becomes clear your not really building anything at all (eventually that building process should start paying dividends on the scoreboard). That light at the end of the tunnel can dim or go out completely. That might be part of what is happening to the Pacers. What say you, Kegboy?

                  -Bball
                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                  ------

                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                    Originally posted by brich View Post
                    .

                    The Pacers need to win some games, they need to stay out of trouble, and they have to show serious effort day in and day out.
                    So are you saying it's up to them? Hmmmmmm That might make a good marketing campaign... errrr, uhhhhh, ummmm, waitaminute... nevermind!

                    -Bball
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                      Originally posted by Bball View Post
                      I don't believe those attendance numbers. Maybe, somehow, that is tickets sold (plus whatever is given away) but I don't think the Pacers are averaging that amount of butts in the seats.

                      I'm basing this on what I saw last year at the games I attended with a little bit factored in on what I saw at the one game I attended this season plus the amount of empty seats the TV cameras are picking up.

                      Maybe I'm off base but I just don't think the numbers add up to butts in the seats.... anybody think those numbers are an accurate count of people in the stands (on average)?

                      -Bball


                      The NBA always just counts tickets sold and tickets given away. The Hawks for one have been known to give thousands of tickets away to certain games and those count in their attendance figures just like any ticket sold. The NBA has never counted how many people actually are in the building. So there hasn't been any change at all.


                      I've stated this before, the pattern of where people are sitting this season has been very diffgerent from past seasons and IMO it makes it look especially on TV like there are a lot fewer people there.

                      Let's start with the lower bowl - the crowds have been arriving really late and there has either been a lot of no shows or people just aren't in their seats. I do believe though all those seats are sold.

                      Legends - if you compare that area to what it looked like in the past you would think the area is now empty. There are three sections on that far end that is reserved for people who are members pf Legends. Last I heard they have sold about 65% of the total memberships - so even if everyone who is a memeber shows up probably less than half of those are actually sitting in the seats - so that area looks empty.

                      But the biggest difference this season has been the club seats. I think there is where the unsold tickets are. Likely a few decided to purchase tickets in the Legend area - but for the most part the Club area is usually less than half full.

                      The balcony this season has been more crowded than it has been in about 3 or 4 seasons. But the balcony does not show up on TV.

                      My point is if you watch the games on TV you would think attendance is down several thousand - and while people actually there might be down quite a bit - I think most of the difference in tyhe way it looks is that more peole are in the balcony and fewer are in the club and Legends area.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                        I think stronger marketing can always help, but to me the deeper issue is that most fans just don't like this team very much. From the players off the court, to the players on the court, to the way this team plays, to the mediocre performances, it just isn't something that makes many people want to pour their heart, soul, and wallet into.

                        The second it looks like we're going to have a deep playoff-run season with a team built around character, non-baggage guys (like Granger), I think the Pacers would be wise to make a huge marketing campaign to go with it (if they've gotten rid of the guys who could mess it up with off-court/on-court negative moments).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                          I'm not a marketing expert, but I'm sure their team is looking for every way possible to market this team. Not being there, I don't know what they do locally, but i know what the Spurs do here. No team has been as consistantly successful as they have been over the past few seasons, and they still market the heck out of the team. The middle of the week games always have special promos attached to them. I'm sure its the same in every city.

                          My point is, if the Spurs have to market themselves as much as they do in order to fill seats, especially when bad teams come to town, then I'm sure the Pacers and everyone else is as well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                            All depends on how you look at it. I've been to 4 games so far. Would it be nice to have more people in the seats (especially lower level)? Definitely. Does the attendance level seem low relative to how the team is playing and all its other baggage? Not so much.

                            I guess I have to agree with the philosophy of winning being the biggest attractor. Win two lose two, Good effort no effort does not get it done for most people.

                            At the same time there's probably some truth to the dueling pro teams, too. But only to the extent that one is highly successful relative to the other and the successful one only plays eight home games always on Sunday afteroon while the less successful and thus less exciting one has myriad games at random different times.

                            And the final factor of course being the core of the Pacers. I think people are getting tired of this group. They've put up with all the on and off the court trangressions and feel like they are being repaid for their patience with uninspiring, mediocrity or worse. Although I follow the team closely under any circumstances and will continue to do so, I must admit to warding off these feeling often.

                            So the quickest way to increase attendance a bit would be to start winning. Due to the "trust" level of the fans and our core players, a three or four game streak won't be enough. It will need to be a more pronounced and representative run that I frankly don't know if this bunch is capable of. So attendance could begin to dwindle from its current state.
                            I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                            -Emiliano Zapata

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                              Some great points guys. Let me jsut clarify a few points.

                              I agree that 11/19 and other incients (strip club shooting) hurt the team a lot, but I have to go back to a point that I heard a few nights ago. Ray Lewis plays out here in Blatimore, and he was on trial a few years back for murder. The fans out here still love the guy and the Ravens still have a pretty good showing. (I realize basketball is different because the game focuses more on individuals)

                              As for the comment about how its hard to get to games, the game I was at was a Friday night game.

                              As I said in my original thread we can say the team just needs to win time and time again, but I still remember that 61 win season. The team was just on pace to break all kinds of records and the fieldhouse still was not sold out. At least not untill the playoffs.

                              I also have to say I thought the Pacers PR and Marketing staff had a great campaign, untill the whole strip club incident. So I do kind of follow the logic of those of you who say that maybe the locals are just plain losing type with this core group of players on this team.

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