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Thread: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

  1. #1
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    I say yes... at least one of them should be on the hot seat. Barring a turnaround, I think this should be 'it' for one of them if not both.

    Either Dungy is not the coach to make Polian's vision work... or Polian's vision is not giving Dungy the horses he needs. Unless we make the Superbowl (or at least a deep playoff run and are a tough 'out') then I think Irsay needs to be having some long talks with these guys and see who's story he buys (if either) and then acts accordingly.

    Agree... disagree...?
    Why... why not?

    -Bball
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    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I say yes... at least one of them should be on the hot seat. Barring a turnaround, I think this should be 'it' for one of them if not both.

    Either Dungy is not the coach to make Polian's vision work... or Polian's vision is not giving Dungy the horses he needs. Unless we make the Superbowl (or at least a deep playoff run and are a tough 'out') then I think Irsay needs to be having some long talks with these guys and see who's story he buys (if either) and then acts accordingly.

    Agree... disagree...?
    Why... why not?

    -Bball
    Well of course there is difference between whats should and what will happen. I do think this team must take a hard look at it's personnel players, and coaches alike after this season unless they do make a deep run into the playoffs and look formidable doing so. They need to take a look at the philosophy of going too light weight with CB's for LB's.

    Dungy is a very good coach there is no doubt about that, Is he a championship coach with that Killer Instinct maybe, maybe not but that needs to be looked at.

    Polian is great judge in talent,and loves the smaller faster mentality.
    Both have been associated with teams that ALMOST went all the way.

    I don't see either leaving after this season. As long as the issues are addressed in earnest, I wouldn't mind having them both back for yes "One more year".

    Also it's dependent on whose out there to replace. I don't think you will find a better GM than Polian that's available. So that leaves you with trying to find a better coach than Dungy, and if the changes is needed and worth it.

    I do think for maybe even change sake that Mudd as the Defensive Coach might be ousted as a peace offering, to buy some time.

    Why Not Us ?


  3. #3
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Slade View Post
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    I do think for maybe even change sake that Mudd as the Defensive Coach might be ousted as a peace offering, to buy some time.
    Meeks...

    -Bball
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    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Meeks...

    -Bball
    I know,after I wrote that last night I was thinking did I wright Mudd the O-line coach not Meeks. ? Yes Mudd's job is safe I would assume. Meeks might get the boot fair or unfair.

    Why Not Us ?


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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Yes, both of them should be on the hot seat. Polian a little more than Dungy right now.

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Dungy? Maybe

    But Polian?

    Since he's been here, he's only led the team to a 91-55 record, which is 14% higher than the organization's overall W-L record (before his tenure. His is 62% BTW), and he's only led them to an AFC East title and 4 AFC South titles in 9 seasons.

    Prior to him coming, the Colts had won one AFC East title ('88) in 20years, and that year their record was only 9-6 so I can only imagine what the rest of the league looked like. In that 20yr. span, the Colts only had four total winning seasons.

    Talk about righting the ship.

    The Tampa Two defense works, when you have your players. Tampa won in 2003 playing the same scheme, with the same players that Tony left. It doesn't help that you're turning over rookie, 2nd-3rd year players, because you're fighting injuries from season start to end.

    You DO realize that the Colts are playing with their 4th and 5th string backups in the safety position right?

    The only thing you can ask you're front office is to make the changes that give you the opportunity to be in the hunt. Polian has done that now for the past 4 seasons.

    Yes, the ax has to fall on someone's head, but you don't cut off a head that is 10x better than the one that's going to replace it. That would be dumb. Bill Polian built a freaking NFC West title winner in two freaking years, in the Carolina Panters.

    He is a top-tier GM, without a doubt. If you lose that, by your own doing, then you better have one hell of a wild card stashed in your back pocket, because anything less would be a MAJOR downgrade.

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    I'd say goodbye to Bill. He's mean.

    Are there any old Carolina players left like Ambrose or King he could bring in?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Dungy? Maybe

    But Polian?
    Someone needs to answer for this defensive debacle that we keep putting on the field.

    There's no way that Irsay should believe that the combo of Polian and Dungy is working. So he needs to decide which basket to put his eggs in and cut ties with the other. It's not like he's not spending big money.

    The team has established a fanbase that they are in question of hurting because early regular season success is no longer good enough. And it's crystal clear what the problem is. The only question is who gets the blame?

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    The defense showed signs of some improvement last season. This season it is utter crap.

    I'd give Polian/Dungy this offseason to get something major done. Maybe trade some of our offense for defense, draft nothing but defense, change defensive system, or fire Meeks. Maybe a little bit of everything. What's blatantly obvious is what we have doesn't work. So a major shakeup or overhaul can't hurt. The defense can't possibly get any worse. Can it?

    If Polian and Dungy just sit on their hands this offseason, there's going to be a mob with torches and pitchforks ready to burn down the Dome. But the defense is so bad that they can't possibly ignore it. I'd give them one more season to see a good amount of improvement.

  10. #10
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    The defense showed signs of some improvement last season. This season it is utter crap.

    I'd give Polian/Dungy this offseason to get something major done. Maybe trade some of our offense for defense, draft nothing but defense, change defensive system, or fire Meeks. Maybe a little bit of everything. What's blatantly obvious is what we have doesn't work. So a major shakeup or overhaul can't hurt. The defense can't possibly get any worse. Can it?

    If Polian and Dungy just sit on their hands this offseason, there's going to be a mob with torches and pitchforks ready to burn down the Dome. But the defense is so bad that they can't possibly ignore it. I'd give them one more season to see a good amount of improvement.
    As far as I'm concerned -THIS- was their 'one more season'. Manning and Harrison, as well as the offensive line, aren't getting any younger. We've got a running back with fresh legs too.

    We can't be building a defense... or team... this way. If Manning is as good as we all think then he's going to make a lot of receivers look good. While money on the defensive side of the ball is part of the problem, it's also the system that is part of the problem.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    As long as they go DL and LB in the draft this off-season I don't see why they should be on the hot seat.

    They just did what no team in NFL history has done with back to back 9-0 starts, and before people dump on that as fake, let's keep in mind that 4 of those ROAD wins were vs playoff caliber teams - NE, NYG, NYJ, DEN

    I'm also pretty sure 3 of those teams have legit RBs, so it's not like the running defense couldn't be exploited by them.

    Clearly something has changed and a bad situation got worse. I think it's injuries, not scheme or GM work. Polian made MAJOR moves (relative to the NFL) to address the DL situation. He spent the money to get Simon on board, then he repeated it to bring in Booger.

    Both were considered great moves by the fans at the time.

    Frankly I think having your 2nd best (maybe best) defensive player on the field makes a difference (Sanders).

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Someone needs to answer for this defensive debacle that we keep putting on the field.

    There's no way that Irsay should believe that the combo of Polian and Dungy is working. So he needs to decide which basket to put his eggs in and cut ties with the other. It's not like he's not spending big money.

    The team has established a fanbase that they are in question of hurting because early regular season success is no longer good enough. And it's crystal clear what the problem is. The only question is who gets the blame?

    -Bball
    Polian is getting the type of players Dungy wants. Dungy came up in the Cover Two system, and coaches the cover two system.

    You can't have a Steelers-type defensive personel and run that defense (outside of Troy P.). It wouldn't work. You have to have extremely quick, which usually goes hand in hand with small, defensive ball hawks.

    Undersized Dlines and linebackers are going to get ran on. It's the nature of the beast. Even with a great nose tackle in Tampa (Warren Sapp) he was known for his pass rush and not his run stopping.

    Polian is getting the type of players that will be the best suited to play Dungy's style of play.

  13. #13
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Polian is getting the type of players Dungy wants. Dungy came up in the Cover Two system, and coaches the cover two system.

    You can't have a Steelers-type defensive personel and run that defense (outside of Troy P.). It wouldn't work. You have to have extremely quick, which usually goes hand in hand with small, defensive ball hawks.

    Undersized Dlines and linebackers are going to get ran on. It's the nature of the beast. Even with a great nose tackle in Tampa (Warren Sapp) he was known for his pass rush and not his run stopping.

    Polian is getting the type of players that will be the best suited to play Dungy's style of play.
    Which is why Irsay needs to talk with them separately and get their reasons why it isn't working and see who makes the most convincing case.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Windy City Flyer City of Big Sholdas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Neither...It is Peyton's fault..everything is his fault.
    |Bears 3-5 - Bulls 0-4|Aren't we just on a roll?

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    You get rid of Dungy if a better coach is available but I doubt there will be any on the open market. The kinda coach most people want, would cost us money and draft picks ala Gruden.

    I think Polian should be on the hot seat because of his defensive draft picks...

    2002

    Dwight Freeney
    Larry Tripplett
    Joseph Jefferson
    David Thornton
    David Pugh
    Josh Mallard

    2003

    Mike Doss
    Donald Strickland
    Robert Mathis
    Keyon Whiteside
    Cato June

    2004

    Bob Sanders
    Gilbert Gardner
    Kendyll Pope
    Jason David
    Von Hutchins

    2005

    Marlin Jackson
    Kelvin Hayden
    Vincent Burns
    Matt Giordano
    Jonathan Welsh
    Tyjuan Hagler

    2006

    Tim Jennings
    Freddie Keiaho
    Antoine Bethea

    Obviously the first couple drafts were great top to bottom. Picks in the second and third rounds after that have absolutely killed us except for Sanders of course. But then look at the defensive production that we have gotten from the last two drafts, and that will tell why we are struggling now...

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    You get rid of Dungy if a better coach is available but I doubt there will be any on the open market. The kinda coach most people want, would cost us money and draft picks ala Gruden.

    I think Polian should be on the hot seat because of his defensive draft picks...



    Obviously the first couple drafts were great top to bottom. Picks in the second and third rounds after that have absolutely killed us except for Sanders of course. But then look at the defensive production that we have gotten from the last two drafts, and that will tell why we are struggling now...
    And what good does a good draft do us if we let the better players walk anyway.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    And what good does a good draft do us if we let the better players walk anyway.

    -Bball
    It replaces them, we've lost Marcus Washington and David Thorton among others over the years but we always replaced them with good drafts. That cannot be said with the last two drafts...

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    Default Re: Should Dungy and/or Polian be on the hot seat?

    You guys are prime examples of "what have you done for me lately?"

    Heaven forbid completely turning around a franchise lets you have a few misses. He takes a franchise that was completely in the gutter to a competitive team, and you want to boot him because of his draft picks in the later rounds?

    I mean he did manage to draft a freaking starter with their sixth round pick just last year. (who was said to have beat Doss straightup) How many high impact defensive players come out of each draft? Very, and I mean VERY few, when you look at how many defensive players are taken each year.

    Do you expect him to find a Shawn Merriman when picking in the 30s every year?

    FA is the only thing I've really been that dissapointed with, to be honest.

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