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Thread: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

  1. #26

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    I think many of you are missing that he does have a legit case. If he was trying to quit smoking, the smoking cessation aids could have been the cause of the positive test result.
    We are arguing on the premise that he is currently smoking.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    There is a huge difference you are overlooking. Gov't laws effect everyone, corporation rules for their employees only effect the employees. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR THEM. Why should I care if RCA makes their employees wear uniforms - or submit to drug tests - if I don't believe in wearining uniforms or submitting to drug tests - then I should work for another co.

    If the company I work for decides they aren't going to celelbrate Christmas - and I'm a huge believer in Christmas and afterall we are talking about religion - I have two choices, either learn to live with it, or quit. I shouldn't sue.
    Well, you don't have to live in any particular country most of the time, either. Why not just say, "Oh, the United States can make any damn law it likes. If I don't like it, I'll just leave!" Of course that doesn't make any sense. We have fought long and hard for ordinary people to have more of a voice in our government, but another kind of authoritarianism has taken hold. And it needs to be uprooted as well. Common folks have already won important battles with oppressive companies. For example, you can't fire someone just for being black. I think companies should hire and fire based on ability and proven success. Not what you do on your own time.

    By the way, a big part of the reason why they are doing this is because this country doesn't have a decent health care system. If we did, companies wouldn't be trying to weed out employees that smoke on their own time. How long until they are trying to weed out employees based on sexual practices? Or body mass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Let me get this straight, you're complaining that governments make unnecessary and invasive laws, yet are asking them to make a law that bans corporations from having such rules in place as no smoking?

    Either you want them to stay out of people's personal business, or you don't.
    I want the government to stay out of people's business. Companies are not people.

  3. #28
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
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    You do whatever you want with your company and you let them do whatever they want with theirs.

    You should decide what's the right business move for every business?
    Classy.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  4. #29

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarionDeputy View Post
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    So you think that an employer/government shoudn't run tests on their employees for off-duty behaviors that could endanger their customers or the public? For example, a school bus driver who smokes cocaine?
    You are comparing apples and oranges. This guy smoking at home certainly does not endanger their customers or the public.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    I think this company should ban women because women are more likely to reach retirement and also cost hundreds of thousands in maternity care. </sarcasm>

    No I think we should just introduce a policy that bans them from getting pregnant

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    In general, I don't have a problem with a service organization requiring that its people not smoke. There's a local plumber I've used that guarantees that the plumber that comes to the house won't smell like smoke. That's a good guarantee and it seems to be generating business. So that's just fine with me.

    A bigger issue is the nicotene content. If the dude's chewing nicotene gum and that's what was in his system, then the company should not be able to fire him for that.
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    I think this company should ban women because women are more likely to reach retirement and also cost hundreds of thousands in maternity care. </sarcasm>
    I never thought of that, but it is true......

    Just kidding ladies....
    "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

    --Jack Nicholson as Colonel Nathan Jessup in A Few Good Men

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anxiety View Post
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    You are comparing apples and oranges. This guy smoking at home certainly does not endanger their customers or the public.
    True, but your comment said you don't think a corporation should have the rights to dictate what an employee does while he is off duty.

    Where would you draw the line?
    "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

    --Jack Nicholson as Colonel Nathan Jessup in A Few Good Men

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    I think many of you are missing that he does have a legit case. If he was trying to quit smoking, the smoking cessation aids could have been the cause of the positive test result.

    I don't see it that way, the way I read it, he wasn't supposed to be smoking in the first place. Therefore no need for cessation, no reason for nicotine in the body....
    "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

    --Jack Nicholson as Colonel Nathan Jessup in A Few Good Men

  10. #35

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Classy.
    Thank you?!

  11. #36

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarionDeputy View Post
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    True, but your comment said you don't think a corporation should have the rights to dictate what an employee does while he is off duty.

    Where would you draw the line?
    Don't get me wrong, I see your point too.

  12. #37
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    It's funny. I feel about drinkers the way most people feel about smokers. I believe drinkers endanger me. I wonder when the breathalyzer tests will be mandatory at the front door.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    I want the government to stay out of people's business. Companies are not people.
    Companies are not people, but people makeup companies.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Companies are not people, but people makeup companies.
    And people own them. And those people have a right to do what they please with their companies.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Manuel, do you agree that companies as well as the people who run the companies have a responsibility to obey the same laws that the rest of us obey?
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    It's funny. I feel about drinkers the way most people feel about smokers. I believe drinkers endanger me. I wonder when the breathalyzer tests will be mandatory at the front door.
    If a private company wanted to hire a workforce that didn't drink ever. I would have no problem with a company doing that. Not sure theuy would get the "best employees" but I believe they have the right to hire whoever they want

    In probably 7 or 8 years every new car sold in America will have a breathalyzer that the driver will have to breathe into before the car will start. I saw a news report about this the other day and it makes perfect sense - although they said they are looking into other means because a breathalyzer - but the effect would be the same. They mentioned that technology is being developed where they can determined just from your hands whether you are drunk, and those sensors could be put on the steering wheel .

  17. #42

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Manuel, do you agree that companies as well as the people who run the companies have a responsibility to obey the same laws that the rest of us obey?
    I'm not exactly where you're going with this, but yes I suppose.

    I reserve the right to clarify my answer, if needed.

  18. #43
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    It was not a trick question. I just think that companies should be given full right to hire and fire who they please so long as they do so within the law. The quesiton here is whether or not the action was legal.

    I think suing a company for enforcing a long standing policy is just a stupid as the company banning tobacco use 24/7. Both sides are crossing the line here.

    I also think that it's strange that the principles that guide me on this issue are what I consider "conservative values". "Stay out of my life and I'll stay out of yours" was a regular answer to political issues in my Republican/conservative household 20 years ago.

    Maybe that was just my house.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  19. #44

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    It was not a trick question. I just think that companies should be given full right to hire and fire who they please so long as they do so within the law. The quesiton here is whether or not the action was legal.

    I think suing a company for enforcing a long standing policy is just a stupid as the company banning tobacco use 24/7. Both sides are crossing the line here.

    I also think that it's strange that the principles that guide me on this issue are what I consider "conservative values". "Stay out of my life and I'll stay out of yours" was a regular answer to political issues in my Republican/conservative household 20 years ago.

    Maybe that was just my house.
    Well, that's for the government. Government stay out of my life is a conservative stance.

    But a business that is trying to cut costs, I don't see the parallel.

    I see your point about maternity leave and costs associated with delivering a baby. But in this case the company is not denying health insurance to anyone, just telling its employess that they can't smoke IF they want to work for the company.

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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Companies are not people, but people makeup companies.
    You're missing the point. Companies are not made from people. They are a power system just like governments are a power system. Individual people always have to be the basis of the power systems, not the other way around. When power systems have "rights" and people do not, that's basically the definition of oppression.

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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Ball View Post
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    You're missing the point. Companies are not made from people. They are a power system just like governments are a power system. Individual people always have to be the basis of the power systems, not the other way around. When power systems have "rights" and people do not, that's basically the definition of oppression.
    Do they just spring up after planting a seed or what then?

    I wonder how Microsoft was made then. I always thought that company was founded/created by a college dropout who tinkered with computers in his garage.

    Maybe it was a robot.

    I found this very interesting:

    com·pa·ny (kŭm'pə-nē)
    n., pl. -nies.
    A group of persons. See synonyms at band2.

    One's companions or associates: moved in fast company; is known by the company she keeps.
    A guest or guests: had company for the weekend.
    The state of friendly companionship; fellowship: was grateful for her company; friends who finally parted company.

    A business enterprise; a firm.
    A partner or partners not specifically named in a firm's title: Lee Rogers and Company.
    A troupe of dramatic or musical performers: a repertory company.

    A subdivision of a military regiment or battalion that constitutes the lowest administrative unit. It is usually under the command of a captain and is made up of at least two platoons.
    A unit of firefighters.
    A ship's crew and officers. See Usage Note at collective noun.
    http://www.answers.com/topic/company

    Every single definition is intertwined with people, because PEOPLE run companies. People start companies. Companies are made up of people.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    I just hope no one ever get's sick because of using a Scott's lawn product. You know their weed and lawn killer stuff. Oh, I'm sorry it's only smoke that can make you ill our caustic materials would never do that.

    From the Scotts web site.

    http://www.lawncare.com/index.cfm/ev...8fe53d0fe7e06d

    Pets and Lawn Safety
    The “American Dream” includes owning your own home, with a nice yard where our kids can play and our pets are free to roam.

    A nice lawn takes work, which in addition to timely fertilizer applications, often requires the use of weed and insect controls.

    Fertilizer is needed to make the grass thick and green, while herbicides and pesticides are used to control unsightly weeds as well as lawn-destroying and nuisance insects.

    For many pet owners, those products raise concerns about safety.

    According to the ASPCA (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), when used according to package directions, most fertilizer and weed control products will not pose a health or safety risk for your pets. (taken from the ASPCA’s Web site, www.aspca.org).

    The ASPCA also says “the most serious problems resulting from fertilizer ingestion in pets are usually due to the presence of heavy metals such as iron. Ingestion of large amounts of fertilizer could cause severe gastric upset and possibly gastrointestinal obstruction.”

    Chris Schmenk, director of Environmental Stewardship at Scotts, says that it is very important for homeowners to read and follow label directions carefully. “All of our lawn products are registered for homeowner use, and included on every label are directions for use which include pet safety information,” Schmenk said.

    The biggest concern with pet owners is over the use of pesticides, which are more toxic than fertilizers and herbicide products. When used correctly, they don’t pose any serious harm, however there are certain pesticide products which can be very dangerous if consumed by an animal.

    The most dangerous forms of pesticides include: snail bait containing metaldehyde, fly bait containing methomyl, systemic insecticides containing disyston or disulfoton, zinc phosphide containing mole or gopher bait and most forms of rat poisons. When using these pesticides place the products in areas that are totally inaccessible to your companion animals.

    For pet owners using any lawn or garden product in their yard, Scotts encourages consumers to keep pets such as cats and dogs out of the treated area until it is thoroughly dry. This is to minimize exposure to the product and also to avoid tracking of the product onto other plants, which could cause damage, and to avoid tracking it in the house.

    Once a liquid product has dried, or once a granular product has been watered in to the soil and the grass or plants have dried, it will be safe for pets to be back in that area.

    If you are unsure, then wait 24 hours before allowing your pets to re-enter that area. If your pets need access to the yard, consider treating the front yard on one day and the back yard on another. Although these pets may eat a small amount of grass, they will not be able to get enough of the product to cause a health hazard.

    You know your pet better than anyone, therefore if your pet likes to eat grass, or dig, or other such behavior then use your best judgment when applying products to the areas where your pet has access.

    Always store lawn care and gardening products where pets (and children) cannot get to them, such as up high on a shelf in the garage or in a locked storage shed. Read the label for proper storage of certain pesticides.

    Again, Read Labels Carefully

    The product’s label will include directions for use as well as warnings, including any cautions for using the product around animals.

    Fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides undergo federal and state testing and evaluation requirements. And, as an added safety precaution, federal laws require that all lawn and garden control products undergo constant re-testing and re-registration to ensure that they comply with changing regulations.

    The ASPCA strongly encourages everyone, including pet owners, to read and follow label directions carefully, and when in doubt to contact the manufacturer. Every Scotts, Ortho, Miracle-Gro and Roundup product has the appropriate contact information on the label, including the 800 number.

    If you believe your pet has consumed a product, contact your veterinarian immediately. Have the product nearby or in hand when you call the veterinarian. If you accidentally spray your dog or cat with a lawn or garden care product, wash it off with soap and water immediately to avoid any irritations or harm.

    By paying attention to labels and using products correctly, you’ll have a nice lawn that you and your pets will enjoy.

    For more reading on this subject, see this article from the University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine.


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  23. #48
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Do they just spring up after planting a seed or what then?

    I wonder how Microsoft was made then. I always thought that company was founded/created by a college dropout who tinkered with computers in his garage.

    Maybe it was a robot.

    I found this very interesting:


    http://www.answers.com/topic/company

    Every single definition is intertwined with people, because PEOPLE run companies. People start companies. Companies are made up of people.
    I have no idea what this even means. Nobody is arguing that there are people in companies. The question is whether people and companies should have the same rights. Answer: people have rights, companies should only have whatever power the people choose to give them. And right now, companies have way, way too much power.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    You're taking away an individual's right's to do what they think is best for his/her company, if you place restrictions on that company.

    As long as I don't discriminate through race or sex, I should be able to pick what type of employees I hire.

  25. #50

    Default Re: Man fired for failing a drug test... for nicotine!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    As long as I don't discriminate through race or sex, I should be able to pick what type of employees I hire.

    So you would be OK with these policies:

    1) Sorry, Bill. We can't hire you since from your medical form, your parents both had heart problems. You are a high risk and that would drive up our insurance costs. We cannot hire you.

    2) Sorry Sally. Your sister has breast cancer. You are high risk. We cannot hire you.

    3) Sorry Sandy. You have had 2 speeding tickets in the last 10 years. You are at higher risk of being injured in an accident so we can't risk that. We cannot hire you.

    4) Sorry Don. You drive a motorcycle and that is too risky for us to have you on our insurance. We cannot hire you. No, you can't just promise to quit riding. You desire to ride puts you in the category of "risk-taker" and we can't have that.

    5) Sorry Suzy. Your love of rock-climbing on the weekends is contrary to our safety-first policy. We cannot hire you.

    6) Sorry Ed. Your physical showed high cholesterol. That puts you in a risk group too high for our comfort. We cannot hire you.

    7) Sorry Amanda. You say your mother was an alcoholic? That puts you at high risk. We cannot hire you.

    8) Sorry Charlie. Since you used to play football, our stats show that you are more likely to have joint problems that would drive up our insurance. We cannot hire you.

    9) Sorry Cindy. Our research shows that you are a member of the NRA. We have a policy that nobody who works here may have guns or use guns. We cannot hire you.

    10) Sorry Dan. We have records to show that you have frequented tanning booths. You thus have a higher risk of skin cancer. We cannot hire you.

    11) Sorry Ellen. The genetic testing part of your physical showed you are 2X more likely that the general population to have early-onset Alzheimer's disease. That's a risk we cannot take, to have to pay for your potential disability. We cannot hire you.



    ------

    Now lets assume that you are OK with all of these restrictions on hiring. Would you be comfortable with the same conditions to be used in firing?

    Hey Don. Sorry to hear you mom had a stroke. That also means you are at higher risk due to family history. We will have to let you go...

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