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Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

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  • Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

    I need to make this quick as it is getting late.

    I assume it was as obvious to everyone watching as it was to me. The game turned in the Pacers favor because Saras and Armstrong played the whole fourth quarter. And please understand, it isn't that DA and Saras are that good - because they clearly aren't. But they play 100% unselfish ball on both ends, they move the ball, DA battles on defense, the Pacers overall ball movement and offensive efficiency is just so much better when they are in the game - or let me be more direct - it is better when Jax and Tinsley are on the bench

    After a nice road win I don't want to dwell on the negative, but I have to say something about Tinsley's 3rd quarter performance. But as I don't want to ripped for being overly dramatic, let me just say his performance was embarrassingly bad. I have to assume he was who Rick was yelling at during that 20 second timeout.

    Tonight I realized how starved I am for a new backcourt.

  • #2
    Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

    Pacers biggest weakness at the moment is opponents guards getting penetration. This game would have been a blowout if Jack and Dixon hadn't gotten into the lane so easily.

    Very good games all around from our team with the exception of Tinsley who had an off night. It was a team win tonight...alot of players came up big on certain posessions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

      Anybody regret drafting Granger instead of Jerod Jack?
      "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

        Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
        Anybody regret drafting Granger instead of Jerod Jack?
        Nope. But I was very impressed with Jack.
        This space for rent.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

          Originally posted by Moses View Post
          Pacers biggest weakness at the moment is opponents guards getting penetration. This game would have been a blowout if Jack and Dixon hadn't gotten into the lane so easily.

          Very good games all around from our team with the exception of Tinsley who had an off night. It was a team win tonight...alot of players came up big on certain posessions.

          That is why the Pacers lead the league in block shots and JO is second

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

            Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
            Anybody regret drafting Granger instead of Jerod Jack?
            Jack is good, but no. Granger is the superior talent.


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

              I wanted the Pacers to go after Jack hard this past summer. I posted a few threads in Blazers forums asking what it would take to get him, and I was quickly told that Jack is their future point guard. But the Pacers horrible point guard defense made him look good tonight

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                That is why the Pacers lead the league in block shots and JO is second
                Carlisle took a page from his Detroit playbook.

                Worked for him then, don't see why it wouldn't now.
                This space for rent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

                  As an avid Georgia Tech fan, I would have liked to go after Jack..but I think the reason we didn't get him is because he didn't seem like a fit in Carlisle's system. Jack has always been an out of control type of player who can only really excel in up-tempo offenses. He was a hell of a defender in college..but he's lost some of his defensive demeanor since he got into the NBA.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                    I need to make this quick as it is getting late.

                    I assume it was as obvious to everyone watching as it was to me. The game turned in the Pacers favor because Saras and Armstrong played the whole fourth quarter. And please understand, it isn't that DA and Saras are that good - because they clearly aren't. But they play 100% unselfish ball on both ends, they move the ball, DA battles on defense, the Pacers overall ball movement and offensive efficiency is just so much better when they are in the game - or let me be more direct - it is better when Jax and Tinsley are on the bench

                    After a nice road win I don't want to dwell on the negative, but I have to say something about Tinsley's 3rd quarter performance. But as I don't want to ripped for being overly dramatic, let me just say his performance was embarrassingly bad. I have to assume he was who Rick was yelling at during that 20 second timeout.

                    Tonight I realized how starved I am for a new backcourt.
                    I'm glad I saw this post because I was going to lose my mind if the only thing people were going to talk about was the play of O'Neal. He had a good game but he was hardly the only reason the team won.

                    I don't think you gave Jeff Foster enough or any credit for that game. IMO, the key to this game was Fosters defense of Randolph.

                    That may have been the single greatest defensive game I've ever seen Jeff play.

                    He went toe to toe with Zach, who is like a bull, & didn't give a inch. That is the defense I want to see every game from him. He wasn't finesse at all, this was actually a power defense that I am not used to seeing him play.

                    Also I know if you didn't watch the game and only look at the box score you will think that Baston stunk & even if you did watch you might have shaken your head at a couple of plays. But overall I thought he came in & did a very good job considering he only played 13 min. prior to tonight, all at garbage time. He was physical & man does the guy cover a lot of ground in a hurry.

                    This is nothing like the Baston I remember from the Raptors.

                    Like you I was really disappointed in Jamaals second half but I really didn't have a problem with Jackson. Although like you I much prefer the ball movement when the other two are in there. In fact I much prefer that to about anybody being in there. I think over the past 6 years that is the one thing I am sick to death of on this team is players pounding the air out of the ball.

                    I was happy with the offensive plays called by Carlisle in the second half.

                    I also was very pleased with Granger. Al had an ok night.

                    Good win by the team but let's not go to far with this. The same problems are still there.


                    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

                      Originally posted by Peck
                      I don't think you gave Jeff Foster enough or any credit for that game.
                      Hell has frozen over.
                      This space for rent.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

                        Any comments on Granger and his apparently successful move to the bench? I couldn't watch the game but his stat line looks pretty good.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Blazers post game thread - see what a different backcourt can do

                          Originally posted by Moses View Post
                          Pacers biggest weakness at the moment is opponents guards getting penetration. This game would have been a blowout if Jack and Dixon hadn't gotten into the lane so easily.

                          Very good games all around from our team with the exception of Tinsley who had an off night. It was a team win tonight...alot of players came up big on certain posessions.
                          Disagree with Buck saying this is the sole reason JO is a top tier blocker this year. He's erasing mistakes by EVERYONE.

                          Granger at this point is mentally way behind the league. He's still at the thinking stage of the game and prone to make silly mistakes.

                          One of those was saved by a JO block when Danny went up court with his head down not really watching his man. Blazers recognized and passed up ahead of him leaving an apparently wide open layup/dunk from 20 feet out even. By the time he got there though JO was in position to erase it, and put it in Pacers control no less.

                          JO also blocked a couple of post-up moves tonight by their frontline.

                          Also, while the PnR defense was a problem and I have been the first to get on Tins and Saras for their problems, it wasn't just them. GRANGER again made another awful play when the Blazers screened for the screener, leaving JO blocked off the play by Danny's man and JO's man moving up the lane to set the high PnR. Danny just kept gaurding his man rather than properly switching, and say what you will about a PG, a decent pick with no help should free anyone for dribble penetration.


                          I actually thought both Tinsley and Sarunas looked acceptable on defense, which means they will suffer but as long as they scramble to stay in it and play strong offense then who cares. The Blazers worked the PnR all game long and that's not just the guards responsibility at that point. They could have tightened up their choices, like Tins going over top once when his man was showing drive the entire time (should have gone under with no shot threat being shown), but at least he was hustling through to make the play.



                          I like the tighter rotation. Basically a hard 8 - Sarunas, Granger and Daniels off the bench, bits of Armstrong. Baston when JO had to go to the locker room, and I assume a guy like Rawle, Powell or Greene would slip in for other types of injuries or foul problems.

                          The spacing was much better most of the time and I thought the plays ran much smoother. There were still some chemistry moments with passes surprising guys, stuff like that. But mostly it looked like guys were very comfortable with their roles, something we haven't seen all season.


                          Also, props to Cabbages. Without seeing the TOR game it seems to me that he's taken a step back to productivity. Forget the 3 ball. What I see is a guy playing with offensive confidence in the half court, especially off of PnRs. Heck, even a straight dribble curl to the lane (like a PnR without the pick) seems to work well for him.

                          At one point he aggressively drove to the heart of the defense only to feed Foster right under the basket for the easy layup by Jeff. He still had a lazy pass that was stolen, but he looked confident and certain about his options when facing full court pressure and even better once they hit the half court.

                          I've been ripping on the dude, but I think he might be finding his way back.

                          I've also been ripping Tinsley but I think he's also showing flashes of his better self. Perhaps both guys took some of their recent crap play to heart and set out to do something about it.


                          Daniels has done something to get bumped back down the rotation, though tonight I think we saw a little bit more of his normal use, where matchups might keep him on the court more than DA or Saras on some nights.


                          It's been my strong conviction that Granger was the starting lineup issue simply because he's still too green. As I mentioned he made plenty of bad mistakes, typically away from the ball where fans don't see which is why some nice shooting and a block or 2 make him appear great to the casual fan.

                          But he has been giving up as much as he gets with some of his mistakes - TOs, open layups, lost on defense, heck he even let his man the FT shooter get a rebound as he ended up BEHIND the Blazer that he was doubling on to help JO (ie, terrible technique). Sorry, but top guy MUST close out the shooter on a FT rebound...always. (this was not the FT that a guard snuck in from behind the shooter, that happened later)

                          Then he had the horrible pass to DA just 5 feet away where he hesitated and then threw it too soft, letting Dixon easily step in and take it. He got saved when Dixon thought he was falling out of bounds and threw the ball at DA's leg in an attempt to put it out on him. But he wasn't really on the line and the ball bounced right back to Danny who then went through an open-spaced court for an easy layup. Pure luck matched with a poor choice by Dixon (like something Danny does). It should have been Dixon passing to the center for Blazers dunk.

                          Danny even pulled the old jump up and then I-don't-know-what-I-meant-to-do travel. Pretty rough to watch.

                          Most of that stuff won't go in the box score but he did it and many others like it. You look at his line and it looks good. He did makes some nice shots. Of course he still camped the 3 line a bit too much and rarely took a SET play to the hoop for an inside score. Those shots typically came off of broken plays.

                          I don't think it was just luck that they had a better start with Jeff in and Danny on the bench. And I'm not anti-Granger at all. Love the kid, love the skills, love the hustle. I felt the same way about Harrington and Bender. But young players need to find their "aha" moment where the game starts to really click for them. Danny's still in "hold on, let me check my mental notes" mode which is why he works best in one on one situations or all out hustle plays, not so much when things get more complicated.

                          Let him work his way to the next level as the 6th man. I think it helps him in who he matches against, as well as what is expected of him. When a guy like Aldridge is out there making similar mistakes it evens out more.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

                            Peck - Baston

                            Can't give him credit. He looked NEUTRAL to me. He didn't really get involved much at either end. The jury is out on him though it does appear that he also lacks a true feel for the NBA game.

                            The proof came when he had his big play - I sincerely saw this coming a mile away simply from watching all those Maccabi highlight reels. SarJas with the ball sees 1 on 1 for Baston at midcourt with no one really ahead of him. Right on that eye contact Baston increased his stride and a got a step or two ahead of his man by the FT line.

                            I never doubted that those 2 had that kind of connection, especially on that kind of alley-oop. It was a moment where the game stopped looking like an NBA game and showed a flash of the open Euro court. In other words, put him in situations that he is comfortable with and of course he (they) can excel, but the fact is that the NBA typically doesn't look like Euro ball.

                            My problem with the situation is that this is not the kind of thing that is available more than 2-3 times a game for the two of them, and then away from that you see far less impact, especially from Baston. He, like Danny and Powell, looks green. He's upbeat and positive, I enjoy seeing him giving it a go. I just think that fans are overrating him with the "he hasn't played so he must be great".

                            Baston typically did not space himself into position to make the kinds of plays he is comfortable with, such as shot blocking. He finds himself denied from those positions during the flow of the game, and it's not just chance.

                            And my other problem with Baston remains "why sign a 30+ year old guy to be the 2nd oldest player on the team when he needs as much PT to learn the NBA as perhaps Williams, Powell or Greene will?" I have hopes that all of them can take that next step. But only 3 of them will still have plenty of years left ahead of them when/if they do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Blazers post game thread - Thankfully Tinsley sat the 4th quarter

                              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                              Peck - Baston

                              Can't give him credit. He looked NEUTRAL to me. He didn't really get involved much at either end. The jury is out on him though it does appear that he also lacks a true feel for the NBA game.

                              The proof came when he had his big play - I sincerely saw this coming a mile away simply from watching all those Maccabi highlight reels. SarJas with the ball sees 1 on 1 for Baston at midcourt with no one really ahead of him. Right on that eye contact Baston increased his stride and a got a step or two ahead of his man by the FT line.

                              I never doubted that those 2 had that kind of connection, especially on that kind of alley-oop. It was a moment where the game stopped looking like an NBA game and showed a flash of the open Euro court. In other words, put him in situations that he is comfortable with and of course he (they) can excel, but the fact is that the NBA typically doesn't look like Euro ball.

                              My problem with the situation is that this is not the kind of thing that is available more than 2-3 times a game for the two of them, and then away from that you see far less impact, especially from Baston. He, like Danny and Powell, looks green. He's upbeat and positive, I enjoy seeing him giving it a go. I just think that fans are overrating him with the "he hasn't played so he must be great".

                              Baston typically did not space himself into position to make the kinds of plays he is comfortable with, such as shot blocking. He finds himself denied from those positions during the flow of the game, and it's not just chance.

                              And my other problem with Baston remains "why sign a 30+ year old guy to be the 2nd oldest player on the team when he needs as much PT to learn the NBA as perhaps Williams, Powell or Greene will?" I have hopes that all of them can take that next step. But only 3 of them will still have plenty of years left ahead of them when/if they do.
                              We watched two differant games then.

                              I saw Baston make great physical plays under the basket on the defensive end. Shot blocking, while a great attribute, is not the end all be all of defense. Just like stealing the ball does not make you a great defender either.

                              Two of the fouls that were called on him were iffy at best & one of them was absolute B.S.

                              Also I couldn't disagree more with you about the tight rotation. It is a long season, the more min. we put on people the less likely they are able to stay healthy for long periods of time.

                              If you then have players sitting on the pine then inevitably they are going to not have great production when called upon for any real length of service.

                              Also, I'm sorry but I am sick of small ball. Even with Foster in there, although IMO Jeff has made almost a 100% improvement from last season, I still consider the lineup small.

                              I want Powell, Baston or Harrison (probably in that order) to at least get a few min. a game just so we can have somebody to help with the bigger players. Did you see poor Al having to sumo wrestle Pryzbilla while J.O. was out? Wouldn't it have been nice if Harrison or Powell could have given Al a breaK?

                              To be frank, I like to see differant players get on the floor as well. Nothing bores me more than seeing the same guys night in and night out for 40 + min. a game.

                              As to your thoughts on Danny? Well, I can't let a post or a night go by without getting a shot in here somewhere.

                              Could it be that once he was away from Wilt jr. he was able to get the ball & do something besides just stand at the three point line waiting on a pass out?

                              I know they played a lot of min. together but by that time the Blazers had adjusted & the old soft double was in effect. So Danny starte ripping down the lane.

                              Also while we are at it & yes I blame the guards for a lot of this. But could someone explain to me how we have this supreme shot blocker yet we are # 3 in the NBA at allowing points in the paint?


                              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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