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Thread: This team needs a new coach

  1. #76

    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Indyfan View Post
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    I took Naptown's statement as an over all statement meaning that Rick's teams haven't underacheived for the span of a season, they have consistenly done better then was expected at the start of the season...esp. the brawl year when we got to the second round of the playoffs with all we had gone through that year.

    Not to nitpick, but you don't mean Carlisle's teams have "consistently done better than was expected at the start of the season." They were championship contenders at the start of the previous two seasons. What you mean is that things went wrong during the season (suspensions, injuries, trade requests, locker-room turmoil, etc.) that made those expectations appear unrealistic in hindsight.


    I appreciate the rest of your post. You can't prove that Carlisle is "one of the best in the league" but I can't prove he isn't, except insofar as Pat Riley and a few other guys have some rings and Carlisle doesn't. You say you are glad we don't have a coach who "makes it all about himself." I agree with that, of course. But why not have a coach who makes it all about winning?

    I'm not out for the coach's blood. He's the Pacers' coach and that needs to stay a given for the rest of the season. I personally don't see or hear anything inspiring about him. His comments on the radio show are less interesting than what I hear from the coaches of 1-A and 2-A high schools out here in Putnam and Montgomery counties. But that is just my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Indyfan
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    It is hard to say that coach is a poor teacher when we don't see the practices, the extra time spent working with the young guys, the film sessions that break down a players weak points and try to help him improve. Perhpas we thought too much of DH,or whoever else is dissappointing, and it isn't that coach isn't trying to teach these guys.
    Harrison's mistakes are correctable. It is not that he's expected to run faster than he is able or consistently make a skyhook from 12 feet out. It is not a matter of skills, but of knowledge and habit. Harrison is expected to know how to take up a defensive position and stand there creating a seven foot wide barrier in the paint. But he's no better at it now than he was two seasons ago. There may be more to it, but the evident, obvious, apparent, simplest-and-best, Occam's Razor explanation is that Harrison isn't getting enough good teaching from the coaches.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
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  2. #77
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    Putnam and Indyfan,

    I find some valid points in both your posts. Yes, in theory RC should be able to teach these guys somethings, particularly the younger guys. On the other hand, I also agree with the point that teaching and motivation in the NBA are a totally different animal than at other levels.

    So this debate is very complex and I don't know that any of us can have any more than our opinion based on obsevation. What I would say is that teaching or motivating someone is a two-way street. The teacher/coach hs to be effective at teaching, but equally as important the student/player has to be open to learning. In addition, the style of the teacher/coach may be perceived differently in as many ways as their are students/players and therefore be more or less effective in different relationships.

    All I can say as far as DH is concerned is there's no evidence that RC and staff have been successful "teaching" but there's also no real evidence that DH has been an active and willing learner. From my own observation, DH has physical tools to work with, but indications of motivation, commitment, work ethic, self control, etc. are not particularly encouraging.

    In my mind RC has the rest of this year to show what he's made of. If he can't develop something with the entire group, I would be open to looking elsewhere. But I'd add that I'd be at the point of looking for a house cleaning including players and coaches. I think this core will have had adequate chance to show something by then.

  3. #78
    Member granger's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    This team needs to use JO and Tinsley like Duncan and Parker..

    Use their skills and ability to go to line more.


    Oh about Carlisle's teaching, I remember Mehmet Okur was talking on Turkish Tv about he learned many things from him, while he was in Detroit

  4. #79
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    "This team needs a new coach" ?

    By team, I assume what is meant is "the present conglameration of players".

    But the statement doesn't really go far enough. It could have stated "To be successful, this team needs a new coach" or "To be a championship contender, this team needs a new coach".

    So, the statement as it stands is probably true. Another coach might have more success with our present hodge-podge of players. But no coach in existence could take our present group of players this season, or even after giving them ample time, let's say 'til hell freezes over, and transform them into a championship contending team.

    We don't have enough perimeter shooters, willing rebounders or capable defenders. And we don't have a roster that the spectators seem to be able to identify with.

    So where do we start in building a championship contending team? I'd say, let's start with our best pieces and go from there.

    That would include Carlisle. It would also include JO, Harrington, Foster and Granger, with perhaps Williams, Marshall, Powell and Daniels sprinkled in to see how they develop. But it wouldn't include much else.

    If you look at those players, that leaves a lot of wholes to be filled. Especially in the backcourt.

    From a fundamental standpoint, we need perimeter shooters and willing/capable rebounders. But, we also need to find players with decent skills in the backcourt who are capable defenders. A decent big man tossed in might also help.

    But, from my perspective, what we don't need is a new coach.

  5. #80
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    IMHO this summer was management's chance to decide on 'coach or players'. They decided that 'coach stays'. So right now, any problems must be fixed by addressing the player side of the roster.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  6. #81

    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    [QUOTE=Putnam;507821]Not to nitpick, but you don't mean Carlisle's teams have "consistently done better than was expected at the start of the season." They were championship contenders at the start of the previous two seasons. What you mean is that things went wrong during the season (suspensions, injuries, trade requests, locker-room turmoil, etc.) that made those expectations appear unrealistic in hindsight.


    I appreciate the rest of your post. You can't prove that Carlisle is "one of the best in the league" but I can't prove he isn't, except insofar as Pat Riley and a few other guys have some rings and Carlisle doesn't. You say you are glad we don't have a coach who "makes it all about himself." I agree with that, of course. But why not have a coach who makes it all about winning?"





    I appreciate your thoughts but I wonder why do you think he isn't all about winning? Of course he wants to win and will do whatever he can to win. I think most coach's want to win most of all. What I was refering to was the idea of coaches who always look to protect themselves from scrutiny, to deflect the blame when things go wrong, to make excuses, ie Larry Brown tends to do those things.

    One of the best in the league is proven by his record so far...COY his rookie season at Detroit (and top 5 COY voting 4 of his other five seasons), 3- 50 win seasons in his first 3 years (which maybe only 2 other coaches have done, I'm not sure though, so correct me if I'm wrong). He turned the Detroit team around and gave them the prep work for the Championship run. He did great things his first year here, until Artest cracked under the pressure in the ECF, they were real contenders.

  7. #82
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach



    This is a pretty interesting read now.

  8. #83
    One man show ajbry's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I don't think JO is fit for an up-tempo offense, nor is jack.
    I'd call this pretty interesting.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    I said we needed a new coach 2 years ago.

  10. #85
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    Mark Jackson anyone?........
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I LOVE YOU REGGIE!

    GO PACERS!

    miller31

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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    Quote Originally Posted by miller31 View Post
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    Mark Jackson anyone?........
    Yeah! Also he has to play starting point guard as part of his contract.

  12. #87
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team needs a new coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh4d3 View Post
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    This is a pretty interesting read now.
    You guys bump these old threads and I cross my fingers I didn't say something that looks wrong in retrospect.

    But re-reading my posts... I feel they still carry weight.

    IOW... I agree with myself

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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