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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
Darn. Jinx?
It's all good though. That was a fantastic post, Peck.
Darn. Jinx?
It's all good though. That was a fantastic post, Peck.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
I don't have time yet to talk about the Chicago game in great detail but I wanted to comment on this thread.
We were beat but I don't feel as though I have a foot in my mouth yet. I didn't like some of the stuff I saw at the end but I really don't feel as though we played a poor game.
I still believe.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
Originally posted by Peck View Post
Don't read the post game thread then.
Peck, I enjoyed your post a lot, and will probably make some comments on it tomorrow.Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
Very sage advice.Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
Not sure what to make of some folks here. Pacers have started pretty well overall.Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
I actually expected much worse. I expected to see a clear difference in talent and see Chicago control the game the whole way. What we got instead was a game that much like the NO/OKC game they could have and should have won. Both games featured leads in the 4th in fact.Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
NO/OKC has put up a very strong record to start the season and is starting to look like more than just a schedule fluke. The Bulls were a solid playoff team last year and added Big Ben to the mix, we know that they are legit and were picked to maybe win the East even.
The connection to 93-94 is the underdog vibe I think. Seems like a lot of locals have given up on them and they are no longer the cool team, especially thanks to the Colts. That means that they belong more to the hardcore fans more than they have the last decade.
The loss tonight was aggrevating due to the end, but honestly it was a really solid outing against a major East contender on the road.
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
Unfortunetly, I didn't follow UB's advice and had already read the game thread before coming over here. Since that thread pretty much made me dumber for having read it (aside from a few posts. Nice work Seth, etc.), this thread is a breath of fresh air and why I keep coming to this forum.
Good stuff, Peck. And I have definetely been noticing some of that "special-ness" going on or whatever it is. The core guys really seem to like each other, and we have so many youngn's/older guys just in it for the victories, that there's a great Three Muskateers dynamic starting to surface.
I agree that this is mostly due to the return of Al.
On all teams, the young players and the role players always admire the most talented players on the team. Maybe not on a personal level, but basketball is different than other sports in that there is generally a very clear and apparent hierarchy of talent on the roster, and everyone on the team knows roughly where they stand on that totem pole. Obviously, some people have delusions of grandeur (Marbury proclaiming himself the best PG in the league, for instance), but even with that, when you're practicing with the same 15 guys and around them all the time it's very clear cut who most talented 2-3 players are on a team and then who are the next 5 best and then who are the "scrubs and stiffs", or at least the guys who---for good reason---won't be seeing many crunchtime minutes.
Why I bring this up is because JO and Al are the two undisputably most talented players on this team without question in the mind of every player who wears a Pacers jersey (yes, even Jack knows this). So they are naturally admired/respected for that reason by a bunch of other guys who wish they were as talented. Meanwhile, JO and Al also seem to be very well liked by the other major pieces of this team (Tinsley and Jack, for sure. Tough to read Danny and Quis' poker faces but they seem to like them too).
And any time you have "good guys" who are popular in the lockerroom as your best two players, that's always a good thing. I think it's fair to say we have that.
But what makes this a potentially "special" scenario is that these two guys also happen to legitimately be best friends.
That's very, very rare.
And this creates an entire culture of camraderie, togetherness and general positivity, where everybody A) respects the talent of the "stars", B) likes the "stars on a personal level, and C) genuinely enjoys being a part of this teams success. Subsequently, that makes this team play better than they should or could otherwise. The cliche' is the links of the chain or the Three Muskateers, but what I think it comes down to is the fact that most people go to farther lengths in the name of helping their friends succeed than they will for personal fulfillment or even money. When blowing an assignment or not boxing out with much effort (probably a bad example after last night, but screw it), means you're truly letting down your friends as opposed to not just doing your job properly, it's a much bigger motivation to do the right thing. To me, it falls under the whole classic line you get from your parents of "I'm not mad...I'm just dissappointed." So, if your lazy defense leads to your team losing and you feeling like a schumck after the game in the lockerroom, that crappy feeling of collectively letting down people you consider true friends is pretty heavy motivation to bust your @ss the next time out.
And I think we're starting to develop a culture like this. If we actually can, all our players become immediately better.Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
I really do believe that Al and JO's relationship is very simillar to Reggie and Mark Jackson's. The better player wasn't the better leader and needed support in that regard.
I'm excited about the team. I don't know if they are special but they have turned the corner from the last two seasons."They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.
"'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
No more beeyotching and whining and moping and not having any fun. None of it.
That would be the perfect season for me right now, regardless of record.
(Yes my goals keep changing, all summer long I just wanted a "distraction-free season", and we all know how that went.“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill
“If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine AirdComment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
Bravo Peck!
I read the post game thread and was pretty turned off. I wondered, like some of you, if some people were seeing the same games as I had. I think the answer to that is yes (as in some of the same things are sliding over the eyeballs) and no (as in the things people choose to really see/assign importance to are different based on perspective and expectation).
I'd be a lot happier if the Pacers were 5-2 instead of 4-3. It was a winnable game (Bulls). I spent a fair amount of time shouting at the TV about rebounding. I was upset.
Yet after the game I thought about the things I didn't shout nearly as much about as I have in the past two seasons - the abundance of horrible shot selections, the lack of ball movement, the matador defense, the lack of effort. And it's because those things are improving!
There's an energy to the team that had been woefully lacking even when we were winning in the last several seasons. You can see it on the court and you can see it in the little moments - Tins giving Runi a pat on the head after he misses a shot, the bench getting up and cheering. There are all sorts of new variables - a lot of new guys, a new style of play, and so on. And I am impressed by how cohesive the team seems and how people are getting better at playing their roles. I am pleased with the effort our guys are putting out and I expect they will get better in a number of areas as the new guys settle in and the new style becomes the normal way they play.
We hung with and could have beaten a team - on their home court - that is perceived as a very good to elite member of the Eastern Conference. It doesn't really matter if the Bulls are getting hyped. It's the perception that matters and it will matter to the guys when it comes to taking away something good from this last game (at least it will if Carlisle is as good of a coach on the motivational end as I hope he is).
It's too early to say with sureity that this new attitude is the way it will be all season, but it's a damn shame to get all tied in knots over individual losses and lapses in judgment (in a 48 minute game it happens to just about everyone at least once) and miss the forest for the trees. There are going to be setbacks and bumps on the road. But it looks to me as if they guys are, as a unit, much better prepared to handle them and move on than they were before and I find that very encouraging.
The sky is not falling. I think that, much like the players, we need to have our initial heat of the moment reaction and then calm the hell down. Enjoy the positives and expect more of them.
In other words...
"Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus
"Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire
"Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William GreiderComment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
That was a great read Peck.Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
Jay (and others)...I just don't get this knee-jerk to every game attitude. It's worse at the Star I think, but you see it here too.
I wish I could say it's just kids who don't know better, but I think some of the older fans have gotten jaded and are constantly ready to rip at the first sign of trouble.
There's gonna be at least 30-35 losses this year, maybe more. I hope PD doesn't have a meltdown in every single one of those game threads. I can safely predict that in every game they lose there will be at least 1-2 players that didn't get it done that night and were somewhat to blame for the loss (though you win and lose as a team in theory).
But probably those same players will be factors in just as many games that the team wins too.
Right now the team has a couple of noticable and totally expected flaws - they are undersized often and lose on the boards, and they have a lack of pure shooters and have seen the team shooting really struggling. The new ball is probably impacting that as well, but everyone has to use it so it's not a disadvantage.
But the trade-off was more energy, better chemistry and an attempt to create and score off of more TO's, as well as attacking the rim earlier in the shot clock. They've been doing all of that too.
I'm not sure I want to hear complaints about that style 30 more times this year, at least not angry rants that can't understand why they haven't fired Rick and traded half the team. People said they don't care about wins, they just want the team to show some energy and effort.
Well, there you go, this is what it looks like, including that CHI loss. Maybe I'm not as upset because I'm only expecting around 46-48 wins and definitely didn't expect a win in Chicago.
Quis' poker faces but they seem like them too)
Dude has replaced Tinsley as the stone face for sure. Tins isn't even in the running with all the smiling and good vibes coming off of him. Side note, have you noticed how much Tinsley goes out of his way to pull guys up or hand out congrats on a good play? I mean he runs half the length of the court for this stuff, well away from the play at times (like on a long transition pass).
Either he feels great, or he's trying to be better at this stuff. Either way I'm surprised and impressed. Hope he keeps that up, it looks good on him.Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
To be honest, I haven't given a second thought about the Chicago game. It was an entertaining game, we fought hard, they fought hard and things could have gone either way. I think Chicago is a much better team and to be honest, I was surprised it was as close as it was.
I like to think of myself as pragmatic, rather than pessimistic, and for my money, I'm liking, overall, what I'm seeing from the team. They seems to be a real heartfelt cohesiveness building with the guys and I think that goes a long way. The biggest problems I see is getting used to a new system on boht sides of the court, and make no mistake about it, Carlisles hasn't just tweaked. He's made some real changes.
All we're seeing is some growing pains as guys try to get to the point where running plays is second nature and they get better at reading defenses or offenses of their opponents.
I still think we MUST make a major trade down the road, but given out personnel, I think we're exactly where we should be. No worries.Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
You are right Seth, in the game threads so far there are a few posters like Dat Dude and Ajbry (there are more, but those two are the worst) who go completely overboard with their reactions.Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
I hope that these posters can behave more normally from now on.Maceo Baston's #1 fan on Pacers Digest!Comment
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Re: It's probably way to early for a post like this....
To be fair, I've sat just about every spot in Conseco and MSA, and there are plenty of real losers at both places (not putting anyone at PD in that category, saying those fans are worse than what you see here).
That home blowout loss to Boston 2 years ago (was it game 3?). I'm sitting right behind JO's finance and Gill's wife. Mid-4th its clearing out and some jerk just behind as at the other end of the row is just standing and going completely off on the Pacers. You suck, is this what I paid for...I mean really David Harrison meltdown stuff. Again, easily in earshot of people I know are related to players on the team.
Other people had left if they were disgusted, but here stands this jerk making a real fool of himself, as if the rest of us remaining didn't know it was a bad night for the team. I'm not saying the guy doesn't have the RIGHT to make an @ss of himself, I'm just saying the guy was making an @ss out of himself.
Another anecdote, back at MSA about midway up on one end, I think Rik's 2nd season, the guy in the row behind us is just ripping on Smits for no good reason. Over and over again he's calling him a clown, talking about how he stinks and will never be any good and that he's just a terrible pick.
I always wondered what that tool had to say after that Rik Magic Miracle...I'm betting he was pretty happy with the shot.
Anyway, point is that you get the same knee-jerk stuff at games, but taken to a whole other drunken stupidity level. Some fans flip-flop from play to play.Comment
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