Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

  1. #1
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,268

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    On TBDSSP, they're talking about the new NBA Zero-Tolerance policy and basically bashing it, and discussing Sheed's quote on the whole thing. Salley is adamant that Sheed (who likens the situation to slavery) is right, and says that in the past a player/ref conversation would have likely gone like this:

    Player: "That call was questionable."

    Referee: "Maybe. I'll make it up to you."

    Maybe it's just me, but that quote really disturbs me. Coming from someone who played the game for years, is this basically an admission that make-up calls exist? Now, I know that most of us believe they do anyway, but the league continues to deny it, and now a longtime player is, in a roundabout way, saying it's true.

    Am I getting too much out of this quote?

  2. #2
    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,668

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Make Up calls are kinda like area 51, everybody knows they exist. But the people behind them do everything they can wasting there own time and everybody elses.

    So basically yes, Make up calls exists, and the very fact that the League denies it so hard is kind of an indication that they realize they exist.

    Is it wrong, yes. But when you refuse to get truly competent officials its probably the best system. Competence would be ideal, but the vast majority of refs, can't do their job.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Did anyoe else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...the vast majority of refs can't do their job.
    Too many players will whine and moan about any call whether it is good or bad.

    I couldn't diagree with you more.

    This is a great rule that should stop the crying over every call. And I don't believe that officiating is any worse than it ever has been. It's probably a little better due to leagues reviewing videos of refs calls.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  4. #4
    Member denyfizle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nap Town
    Posts
    1,409
    Mood

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    If you've played organized ball you'll know that it's kind of a Universal truth that make-up calls exist.

  5. #5
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,062

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Back in the 50's, refs were known to fix games altogether for gambling purposes.

    Different era, different story.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  6. #6
    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,668

    Default Re: Did anyoe else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Too many players will whine and moan about any call whether it is good or bad.

    I couldn't diagree with you more.

    This is a great rule that should stop the crying over every call.
    Um so what does that have to do with whether or not the refs are good or bad. Just because players whine when the Call is good, doesn't mean that overall the refs aren't very good.

  7. #7
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    I agree, nothing new there.

    And for the record, I love the new rules. As long as the refs keep it up, players will get the hint. My biggest fear is that 10 games in, refs will stop calling it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Back in the 50's, refs were known to fix games altogether for gambling purposes.

    Different era, different story.
    I'm not aware of that happening in the NBA.

    Some college refs were involving in 50s game-fixing, but I don't recall anything like that happening in the NBA, though some refs have been shady and faced charges for tax evasion and the like.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  9. #9
    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,668

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    I don't think there are any confirmed accounts of it happening, but I would bet good money it happened, hell I would bet the odds are still decent that it is attempted today by individual refs, doubt they could organize with all the scrutiny they face.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Did anyoe else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Um so what does that have to do with whether or not the refs are good or bad. Just because players whine when the Call is good, doesn't mean that overall the refs aren't very good.
    What does anthing Sally says make you feel refs are bad? He's a Pistons homer and will defend Sheed.

    If Sheed were on a rival of the Pistons he would think it was a great rule and say he should suck it up
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  11. #11
    Nerd.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,062
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree, nothing new there.

    And for the record, I love the new rules. As long as the refs keep it up, players will get the hint. My biggest fear is that 10 games in, refs will stop calling it.
    Yes, as long as the refs are consistent and continue to follow the new "rules", then the players will learn. It is called adaptation.

  12. #12
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, as long as the refs are consistent and continue to follow the new "rules", then the players will learn. It is called adaptation.
    Absolutely agree. It's already happening, and the game is benefitting. I just hope the refs keep it up.

  13. #13
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    honolulu
    Age
    26
    Posts
    7,877
    Mood

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Payback calls have existed since referees and have become even more prevalent since fans/homecrowds. I don't know what each of the conversations/confrontations between players and refs entails because I can only see their motions and sometimes read lip. Hopefully, the refs do it to keep the game under control and moving along rather than using an abuse of power i.e. our commisioner.
    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Likely they exist and not really worried about it as long as one team isn't favored over another.

    I, personally, love the new rule. Used to just get sick and tired of watching our team and others like that jack *** sheed throwing fits about calls.

    Shut up and play! If this rule were in place 3 years ago, the "brawl" doesn't happen.

    Water

  15. #15
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,062

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Problem is, Sheed has thrown one "fit" all season, and he has still 4 technicals.

    He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.

    It's gone above and beyond zero tolerance. Now it's just payback time.

    I wouldn't be defending him if this was his usual ranting and raving, but he's dead on correct this year. They're just making up ways to T him up now.

    People just look at the box score and see he got T'd up, and just assume he deserved it. He's actually making an effort to be good now, and he's not being treated fairly under the new rule.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  16. #16
    Steveman
    Guest

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Back in the 50's, refs were known to fix games altogether for gambling purposes.

    Different era, different story.
    Yeah, now it's done for tv ratings

  17. #17

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Problem is, Sheed has thrown one "fit" all season, and he has still 4 technicals.

    He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.

    It's gone above and beyond zero tolerance. Now it's just payback time.

    I wouldn't be defending him if this was his usual ranting and raving, but he's dead on correct this year. They're just making up ways to T him up now.

    People just look at the box score and see he got T'd up, and just assume he deserved it. He's actually making an effort to be good now, and he's not being treated fairly under the new rule.
    Can we all agree that Sheed has built up at least 5 years of bad karma? Assuming this is revenge, pure and simple, is anyone but 'Sheed and Pistons fans upset? What, as if vengeful refs are a totally new, shocking, and recent development in the NBA?

    I could care less if they T him up every game, even if he grabs a bible and prays between free throws, helps old ladies find their seats during time outs, and leads the fans in singing kumbaiya after the game. He's earned every technical he gets this season about 5 times over.

    Here's the problem, though. Rasheed is the biggest former whiner, but he's not the only one, and some others were nearly as bad. Why aren't examples being made of lesser offenders like JO, Marbury, and Vince Carter?

  18. #18
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,062

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    If Sheed has built up 5 years of "bad karma", JO has built himself at least two.

    If Sheed should get undeserved techs for no reason at all, then JO probably deserves a tech every two games the second he laces up.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  19. #19

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Sheed has built up 5 years of "bad karma", JO has built himself at least two.

    If Sheed should get undeserved techs for no reason at all, then JO probably deserves a tech every two games the second he laces up.
    I believe I agreed with you. But like I asked, if it is indeed revenge as 'sheed would like you to believe, why isn't JO getting nearly the same treatment?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    I don't think the issue w/the "zero tolerence/no arguing w/refs" rule is about players not being able to discuss questionable calls. I think it's about players trying to do as Sheed suggests, "if the players believes the call was bad said player can 'influence' the ref into 'turning the other cheek' on the subsequent call." Players have just spent too much time debating questionable calls/non-calls, etc., and it has taken away from the game.

    I'm not saying the refs get it right all the time. Not even going to debate the issue of whether or not refs do, in fact, "turn the other cheek" to makeup a call they missed/got wrong going the other way. I'm sure it does happen and often. The point w/the rule is "how do you get the players to focus on the game of playing basketball and let the refs to their jobs?"

    Referring is part of the game. It's an attempt to keep both teams honest in the way they play the game and give both teams a fair chance at winning based on their own merits/skills/talents. That said, we all know players sometimes get away w/stuff because said All-Star is who he is. The issue right now is just to cut down on all the bickering to the refs by the players. Once that's done, the team owners can look at ways to keep the refs honest. One way to do it is to go the Mark Cuban route: "Write a strongly worded letter to the league about ref partiality towards players/teams," and see what happens.

    If Stern cares enough about the integrity of the game, he'll do what is necessary to keep the refs in check and not let them go Gestopo on the game as a whole.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think the issue w/the "zero tolerence/no arguing w/refs" rule is about players not being able to discuss questionable calls. I think it's about players trying to do as Sheed suggests, "if the players believes the call was bad said player can 'influence' the ref into 'turning the other cheek' on the subsequent call." Players have just spent too much time debating questionable calls/non-calls, etc., and it has taken away from the game.

    I'm not saying the refs get it right all the time. Not even going to debate the issue of whether or not refs do, in fact, "turn the other cheek" to makeup a call they missed/got wrong going the other way. I'm sure it does happen and often. The point w/the rule is "how do you get the players to focus on the game of playing basketball and let the refs to their jobs?"

    Referring is part of the game. It's an attempt to keep both teams honest in the way they play the game and give both teams a fair chance at winning based on their own merits/skills/talents. That said, we all know players sometimes get away w/stuff because said All-Star is who he is. The issue right now is just to cut down on all the bickering to the refs by the players. Once that's done, the team owners can look at ways to keep the refs honest. One way to do it is to go the Mark Cuban route: "Write a strongly worded letter to the league about ref partiality towards players/teams," and see what happens.

    If Stern cares enough about the integrity of the game, he'll do what is necessary to keep the refs in check and not let them go Gestopo on the game as a whole.
    Same here.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."

    - Albert Einstein

  22. #22
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,268

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Problem is, Sheed has thrown one "fit" all season, and he has still 4 technicals.

    He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.

    It's gone above and beyond zero tolerance. Now it's just payback time.

    I wouldn't be defending him if this was his usual ranting and raving, but he's dead on correct this year. They're just making up ways to T him up now.

    People just look at the box score and see he got T'd up, and just assume he deserved it. He's actually making an effort to be good now, and he's not being treated fairly under the new rule.
    Though that may be the case (and I do agree that the refs often feel they're bigger than the game and power trip over it), Sheed has gotten away with a LOT over the past few seasons that he should have been T'd up/tossed for. So, yeah, consider it karma.

    My main problem with Sheed's quote is how he compares this situation to slavery. Get over it, Sheed. I'd happily shut my mouth if I were getting millions of dollars for playing a game. Get your priorities straight and stop trying to create controversy where there is none.

  23. #23
    Banned Fool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,408

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    The slavery thing is ignorance but your "karma" is the same as "superstar calls". If you are fine with karma calls, then that implies you are fine with superstar calls.

    Not that you can't be fine with both.

  24. #24
    Hall of Famers FrenchConnection's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,663
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The slavery thing is ignorance but your "karma" is the same as "superstar calls". If you are fine with karma calls, then that implies you are fine with superstar calls.

    Not that you can't be fine with both.
    I agree with you here. Refs are supposed to be objective, and they seldon are. Like when Wade or AI go into the lane out of control not even looking to score, they always get the call. The refs anticipate the contact and blow the whistle, sometimes before any contact has occured.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,257

    Default Re: Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.
    A player of limited intelligence would quickly learn not to say "and one". We will see if Sheed can rise to the level of limited intelligence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •