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Thread: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    I'm not going to do the player grades , instead I want to touch on a few important points.

    I assume you saw the game, but if you didn't, Saras played the whole 4th quarter, and he ran countless pick and rolls, but he wasn't "the point guard". He was on the court with DA and DA would bring the ball up, get the Pacers into the offense, but Saras ran countless pick and rolls either with JO or Al, and it was very effective.

    That is exactly what I and others have meant when we've said let Saras run secondary pick and rolls. Marquis also would be excellent in that role


    I love Armstrong, his two steals were huge, huge plays - in fact I think the biggest plays of the game. They don't make them like DA anymore. I guess his nickname is Armey - or that is what Slick calls him.


    Lets give Rick some credit, the zone was another huge key, the Knicks were in a groove - that was the most important coaching decision tonight.


    This was JO's best game of the season, that is what I want to see from him, he controlled the paint and that is what we need.

    Granger is still trying to find his way, but he had two huge offensive rebs midway through the 4th.

    Anyone else notice DA and Saras played the whole 4th quarter.

    Now that was the Al I remember from his days in Atlanta.

    Overall the Pacers played with more effort and intensity and that is what they need.

    I do need to say, I thought the Knicks were horid tonight. Good to see isiah hasn't improved as a coach. Granted they have a bad mix of players, but they are really poorly coached. They play defense in spurts and if they get beat on the perimeter, they tend to just give up. (Yes that is the help defense that drove me crazy when isiah was the pacers coach.

    Let me end with two things.

    I have no idea what the Pacers are going to be this year, but I do believe they will be up and down at least until Christmas.

    Sorry this postgame report isn't any good.


    EDit: also playing a zone helped Saras, because watching him guard Crawford in the first half made my stomach very queesy

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    If this is the way to use Runi - why didn't we do it last year? Who's to blame. I agree with you but is it just that Armstrong sees something in him that our other two guards did not last year or did Rick just blow it?
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    I made several posts after last night's game that Runi is the key to the team.

    May sound crazy to some, but we really don't have anyone else to create some offense who also has the shooting threat. (I was hoping Quis might also fit the bill, but did you see the air ball tonight?)

    Yes, when the coaches make an extra effort to get Runi the ball where he needs it, and allow him to run the pick and roll, good things happen. In the fourth, it was mostly him shooting midrange shots, but had the game gone on longer, they would have adjusted and he would have made some nice passes to JO/Al.

    I'm not saying it's Wade and Shaq, but from what I can tell, this Runi pick and roll scheme is about the only offensive weapon we have other than pass it inside to JO and watch the fadeaway.
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    If this is the way to use Runi - why didn't we do it last year? Who's to blame. I agree with you but is it just that Armstrong sees something in him that our other two guards did not last year or did Rick just blow it?
    Rick blew it.

    Bird's quote: "Rick and I disagree on Saras."
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Rick blew it.

    Bird's quote: "Rick and I disagree on Saras."
    Wait a minute though. You can't just throw Saras out there as the only point guard on the floor or the defensive pressure will devour Saras and the Pacers offense. Tonight I don't think Saras ever was "the point guard" on the floor tonight. He either had DA or Tinsley with him

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    I don't see Rick as this great tower of strength who in uninfluencable by the players. I could name any number of anecdotes to support that statement.

    That being said, I think AJ was a big influence on Rick, and knowing how AJ felt about Saras may have had a big effect on Rick.

    Anybody remember that point in the season where AJ, who was riding the bench, said he had a talk with Rick and convinced him where he should be playing instead of Saras?

    Add to that the rumblings by Fred and the Stephen (Don't pass it to Runi) Jackson, and you can see where a growing sentiment affected Rick's decisions.

    Again: Rick blew it.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm not going to do the player grades , instead I want to touch on a few important points.

    I assume you saw the game, but if you didn't, Saras played the whole 4th quarter, and he ran countless pick and rolls, but he wasn't "the point guard". He was on the court with DA and DA would bring the ball up, get the Pacers into the offense, but Saras ran countless pick and rolls either with JO or Al, and it was very effective.

    That is exactly what I and others have meant when we've said let Saras run secondary pick and rolls. Marquis also would be excellent in that role


    I love Armstrong, his two steals were huge, huge plays - in fact I think the biggest plays of the game. They don't make them like DA anymore. I guess his nickname is Armey - or that is what Slick calls him.


    Lets give Rick some credit, the zone was another huge key, the Knicks were in a groove - that was the most important coaching decision tonight.


    This was JO's best game of the season, that is what I want to see from him, he controlled the paint and that is what we need.

    Granger is still trying to find his way, but he had two huge offensive rebs midway through the 4th.

    Anyone else notice DA and Saras played the whole 4th quarter.

    Now that was the Al I remember from his days in Atlanta.

    Overall the Pacers played with more effort and intensity and that is what they need.

    I do need to say, I thought the Knicks were horid tonight. Good to see isiah hasn't improved as a coach. Granted they have a bad mix of players, but they are really poorly coached. They play defense in spurts and if they get beat on the perimeter, they tend to just give up. (Yes that is the help defense that drove me crazy when isiah was the pacers coach.

    Let me end with two things.

    I have no idea what the Pacers are going to be this year, but I do believe they will be up and down at least until Christmas.

    Sorry this postgame report isn't any good.


    EDit: also playing a zone helped Saras, because watching him guard Crawford in the first half made my stomach very queesy


    100% agree with every word.

    Runi looked great playing with Armstrong who looked great. JO and Al found their rhythm this game. Tinsley's play was outstanding tonight--AND HE SAT THE FOURTH!! Not to say I have a problem with that, but instead that I was very pleased because of the Runi/Red Bull combo.

    Great, great game tonight. If we play like this (minus the mini-callapse late-3rd) we'll be a pretty good team, IMO. At least fun to watch again.
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Wait a minute though. You can't just throw Saras out there as the only point guard on the floor or the defensive pressure will devour Saras and the Pacers offense. Tonight I don't think Saras ever was "the point guard" on the floor tonight. He either had DA or Tinsley with him
    Not sure what that has to do with my quote.

    But, anyway, I think you answered your own question at the top of the thread. The coaches need to think of creative ways to use Saras. This is the way to use him. They didn't work hard enough at it last year. Thus, "Rick blew it."
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    I'll post my recap in here too and the game thread.

    Good win tonight this is how we want to play every night IMO. Here comes my recap. No bad tonight, just ok, good, and great. Only thing to really complain about was the free throw disparity. I highly doubt we went an entire half without drawing a shooting foul, but I digress.

    THE OK:

    Granger is again not playing how we need him to just yet, but that being said I am glad Rick is not tinkering with the lineup let them play and work through their problems. It will come to Danny eventually just like last year though he will need some time to adjust to being a starter.

    Jack had his worst game of the season tonight, but he still avoided the yacking with the refs and he drew a few charges so as long as the hustle is there I am a happy camper.

    Quis had his worst game tonight too, just never really looked in the flow on either end, but thats ok because he is new and you would expect him to still be on a bit of a learning curve.

    Foster has been less than impressive to me the past two games, but I still don't think he is hurting us and I don't expect him to. That being said I can't say he is helping us either just yet.

    Harrison was blah to meh yet again. Nothing to really get excited about.

    THE GOOD:

    JO belongs here cause I said I was going to be less and less forgiving to his problems on the boards. His offense is still very efficient and his shot blocking and defense the past two games has been nothing short of spectacular, BUT he has to start crashing the board he has too.

    THE GREAT:

    Tins, Runi, and DA were AWESOME tonight. And we thought our PG rotation was going to be a weak spot, silly us. Plus we have our supposed defensive stopper in Greene coming back in a week or two. Lets start with Tins what a game from him tonight ran the offense to an absolute T, no problems at all. 14 assists and only 2 turnovers plus he was extremely efficient in his scoring. I was thrilled with him and this is why I will maintain that he is a top 5 PG when healthy. DA was basically DA tonight just great, his shooting has been spectacular for us. Not to mention how good he is on the pressure D front. Runi was very good in the 4th mediocre up until that point but really got in a groove. He is absolutely unstoppable when he can go to his right and get that midrange J in the lane.

    Our chemistry tonight was just plain awesome Kellog and Denari touched on it and anyone that watched the game can attest to the fact that our bench was up and cheering the whole 4th quarter. That made me so happy I can't even explain. I haven't seen a bench that happy since the late 90's teams. Even the 60 win team never looked that happy together. Oh BTW I think its safe to say that AJ was a problem child. We committed highway robbery in that trade with Dallas one of the best moves Bird and Walsh have collaborated. Fantastic typical Walsh move, doesn't look like much at first, but has a huge impact on the team.

    Well, I think that just about covers it, oh wait, am I forgetting someone? Oh yeah thats right Al had a pretty nice little game, that is if a pretty nice little game is dominating offensively from tip to finish. What a game from him. Fantastic effort and he scored from inside and out. Tins got him involved early in both halves and Al took it from there. Really happy to see him get off the snide.

    Great win tonight. I'm happy, now lets go get the first W at home and beat the snot out of Philly.

    GO PACERS!!!

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    I think has to fall on Rick, ultimately. There were times when Sarunas played with Tins very well, and I think that many of us on here agree that it was some of Runi's best basketball. However, Tinsley was injured so much that AJ became the starter and someone has to back him up.

    Also, with Jack and Freddie playing the 2, Sarunas didn't have the opportunity. A lot of the off-season moves really benefitted Sarunas, whether by design or not. 'Quis, DA for AJ, letting Freddie walk. All very big contributors to Sarunas' success thus far.
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    13 assists from the starting PG tonight. Shot 4 of 5. Go Starting PG.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    . The coaches need to think of creative ways to use Saras. This is the way to use him. They didn't work hard enough at it last year. Thus, "Rick blew it."

    Many of us said the same thing over the summer, but we also questioned whether Saras was worth it, whether getting him to be effective would help the team and be worth the trouble. And I don't think we have enough evidence to answer that question

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I don't see Rick as this great tower of strength who in uninfluencable by the players. I could name any number of anecdotes to support that statement.

    That being said, I think AJ was a big influence on Rick, and knowing how AJ felt about Saras may have had a big effect on Rick.

    Anybody remember that point in the season where AJ, who was riding the bench, said he had a talk with Rick and convinced him where he should be playing instead of Saras?

    Add to that the rumblings by Fred and the Stephen (Don't pass it to Runi) Jackson, and you can see where a growing sentiment affected Rick's decisions.

    Again: Rick blew it.
    Do you seriously belive this? You know my "Freddie and AJ on the plane" post yesterday was a joke, right?

    If Rick lets players influence him to that extent, then the locker room would be anarchy. Last year's Knicks kind of anarchy.

    The truth is, Rick looks at Cabbage and sees a 2, if for no other reason than he subscribes to UB's theory that the PG is the most important defensive player on the floor. Cabbage obviously bristled at that last year, but somehow they got on the same page this offseason.
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dat Dude View Post
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    13 assists from the starting PG tonight. Shot 4 of 5. Go Starting PG.


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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    But, anyway, I think you answered your own question at the top of the thread. The coaches need to think of creative ways to use Saras. This is the way to use him. They didn't work hard enough at it last year. Thus, "Rick blew it."
    Not sure that's fair. Rick tried to pair Runi with a PG last year, but Sarunas pouted about it.

    I don't think the difference is Carlisle, I think the difference is that Runi may have grown up some over the summer. Marriage can do that.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Many of us said the same thing over the summer, but we also questioned whether Saras was worth it, whether getting him to be effective would help the team and be worth the trouble. And I don't think we have enough evidence to answer that question
    True, this was the third game. And it was the Knicks. But if his "effectiveness" wasn't worth it tonight, he'll never be good enough. He and DA won this game in the 4th. Al got us on top, and JO kept us there with his D. But it was DA and Runi that won the fourth quarter.
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Sorry 14 assits from our STARTING PG. Yes starting.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I made several posts after last night's game that Runi is the key to the team.
    I would love to agree with this. However, w/o the help of JT, DA and MD, he still cannot bring up the ball and defend speedy guard. And I am a big supporter of Runi.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Dat Dude View Post
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    Sorry 14 assits from our STARTING PG. Yes starting.
    Yes, and that is what his did in the fourth quarter.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    It's the Knicks for Pete's sake.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    It's the Knicks for Pete's sake.
    I thought the Knicks were really bad tonight. Pacers should have had a 15-20 point lead at halftime.

    I wonder where Rimfire is

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Yeah, the Knicks are bad.

    That should be added to the list of positives! Considering we couldn't beat the bad teams last year, it's a great improvment!
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Sounds like a great game. Wish I could have seen it. You lucky devils.

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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    Yeah, the Knicks are bad.

    That should be added to the list of positives! Considering we couldn't beat the bad teams last year, it's a great improvment!






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    We're 2-1 against 3 bad to mediocre teams. That's a step in the right direction.
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    Default Re: That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts

    Yes the Knicks are not a great team, but they have something to prove. Teams even great ones, let alone around average ones don't always win by as much as they should.

    On to a more important note, the Pacers don't win without DA and Saras in the forth, nor do they without Al and Tinsley tonight. I don't understand why people like to overstate or unstate player's performances based on their own personal bias. It's not ever going to be one persons performance that is going to win them games this year or at least not often.


    Sorry if this is not a good way to do one of my few posts, just frustrated how people can't be happy with a win or giving everyone their do that played well.

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