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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

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  • #16
    Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

    Here is some info. I found. There is info. for other leagues as well at the link, so i only posted the NBA related stuff below.

    http://dtv.fxep.com/Blackouts.html

    The most commonly asked RSN questions are usually about blackouts. In the world of sports broadcasting, situations arise when FOX Sports Net is not permitted to broadcast games in certain parts of the country. These blackouts are designed to protect the rights to certain games purchased by programmers other than FOX Sports Net.

    Blackouts on the Regional Sports Networks are not based on arena sellouts. They are in place to protect the various broadcast rights holders for each game. Each league, NBA, NHL and MLB, determine it's team territories differently. Consequently, and NBA team and a MLB team from the same market will have drastically different local blackouts areas. This can be a confusing subject at times, this section explains the different scenarios in the simplest form.




    NBA - Blackout #1
    Regional Coverage Blackout: Subscribers may only watch their home team on their home Regional Sports Network.


    Example: Subscribers residing in Denver, CO, receive home team coverage of the Denver Nuggets, which appears on FOX Sports Rocky Mountain. If the Denver Nuggets games were on any other RSN, those subscribers would not be able to receive that game.



    NBA - Blackout #2
    Over-the-Air-Blackout: NBA game is being carried locally by an Over-the-Air station. (Refer to OTA Blackout zip codes.)

    Situation: The RSN must blackout a radius of 75 miles from the stadium on the non-RSN team to protect the rights of the local over-the-air station.
    Example: FOX Sports Detroit is carrying Detroit Pistons vs. Dallas Mavericks game. In Dallas the local over-the-air station, KDFI, is also broadcasting the game. A 75-mile radius around the Dallas Mavericks arena is blacked out. Anyone living inside this radius has to watch the game on the local station KDFI.
    Comments: As long as a customer has an over-the-air antenna in that 75-mile radius, they should be able to pick up that game on the local over-the-air station.



    NBA - Blackout #3
    National Rights Holders - TNT/TBS/NBC have national rights to the NBA. Games will be available through Regional Sports Networks (RSN) to the local territory only.


    Example: FOX Sports Detroit and TNT are broadcasting the same Detroit Pistons game. FOX Sports Detroit has primary coverage in the Detroit Pistons territory. TNT has national rights (all areas outside the Detroit Pistons territory) and the game would not be available on any regional sports network.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

      Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
      Situation: The RSN must blackout a radius of 75 miles from the stadium on the non-RSN team to protect the rights of the local over-the-air station.
      Example: FOX Sports Detroit is carrying Detroit Pistons vs. Dallas Mavericks game. In Dallas the local over-the-air station, KDFI, is also broadcasting the game. A 75-mile radius around the Dallas Mavericks arena is blacked out. Anyone living inside this radius has to watch the game on the local station KDFI.
      Comments: As long as a customer has an over-the-air antenna in that 75-mile radius, they should be able to pick up that game on the local over-the-air station.
      This is weird, because I'm pretty sure Cincinnati is more than 75 miles away from Indianapolis.

      I really don't understand.
      This space for rent.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

        Originally posted by Anthem View Post
        This is weird, because I'm pretty sure Cincinnati is more than 75 miles away from Indianapolis.

        I really don't understand.
        That part is talking about " local over-the-air station". That is different from Fox sports Indiana - which is the regional sports network. So I don't think the 75 mile radius rule applies to FSN-IN

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
          That part is talking about " local over-the-air station". That is different from Fox sports Indiana - which is the regional sports network. So I don't think the 75 mile radius rule applies to FSN-IN
          Well I certainly don't get the Pacer's "over the air" broadcasts.

          I guess I need to call them up tomorrow and ask for a manager.
          This space for rent.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

            Originally posted by Anthem View Post
            Well I certainly don't get the Pacer's "over the air" broadcasts.

            I guess I need to call them up tomorrow and ask for a manager.

            WTTV4 isn't carried on cable in Cincy is it? I'm just wondering if your problems might be a holdover from last year when WTTV4 showed several Pacer games? I'm doubting that... (I don't think WTTV's signal reaches that far and I can't imagine it being on Cincy cable) but it wouldn't surprise me, along that vein, to see this have something to do with the FSMW and spinoff FSI. Maybe you get FSMW and so the computer thinks the game is on FSMW so they black out Fox Sports Indiana?

            ....Or it's somehow related to that bit of silliness with FSMW/FSI which are really kinda the same channel...excpet when they are not...

            No Pacer games (unless national) are being broadcast over the air this season. Fox sports got the rights to the package, so don't let OTA blackout be the reason they give you. That would be a holdover from last season and no longer applicable.

            Edit: Are you sure you're really blacked out? Maybe the system is right but the reps are wrong.


            -Bball
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

              I'm not blacked out in New Paris, but Cleveland is considered my "local" team. They are blacked out on mine. You may be screwed, since I don't think the Cincy feed of FSOhio picks up the Cavs games, they may consider the Pacers more "local" than the Cavs, although the games aren't on. Screwed up.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                What a nightmare.

                I'm so sorry about this Anthem. Hope you get it straightened out.
                “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                  Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                  Well I certainly don't get the Pacer's "over the air" broadcasts.

                  I guess I need to call them up tomorrow and ask for a manager.

                  Pacers don't have any over the air games on in Indy either

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                    Anthem,

                    Call the Pacers' front office and tell them your story. Seriously. I'm willing to bet that they might have someone in-house who talks to the cable companies and can give you some answers (and if the cable company is screwing up and not showing games, the Pacers will want to know about that anyway).

                    EDIT: Another option would be to call the FSN office or the actual NBA League Pass network (if you can find their contact info) and ask them if they're supposed to be blacked out in your area.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                      Ok, I'm going to attempt to make direct contact with four companies:

                      Time Warner Cable: (513) 469-1112
                      Pacers Sports and Entertainment:
                      Fox Sports:
                      NBA League Pass:

                      I'm searching the web right now for contact info. If you have an appropriate contact number, please send it to me.
                      This space for rent.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                        Awesome.

                        I called PS&E and asked for the Director of Broadcast Engineering. That got me to the right person, and he was frustrated because he said Cincinnati should not be blacked out. He took my name and number and said he'd get to the bottom of it and call me back.

                        That's a step in the right direction, at least. When I talked to TWC today, the rep said I shouldn't even waste my time talking to a supervisor, since they have no power to change what content gets broadcast. We'll see if something happens. Regardless, I was pretty impressed with the PS&E guy. I called at 9:30 on a Monday morning and dropped a pile of crap on his desk, and went after it.

                        ---------------

                        If anybody from PS&E is reading this, please give an attaboy to your Director of Broadcast Engineering. The problem's not fixed yet, but I feel hopeful.
                        This space for rent.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                          Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                          Awesome.

                          I called PS&E and asked for the Director of Broadcast Engineering. That got me to the right person, and he was frustrated because he said Cincinnati should not be blacked out. He took my name and number and said he'd get to the bottom of it and call me back.

                          That's a step in the right direction, at least. When I talked to TWC today, the rep said I shouldn't even waste my time talking to a supervisor, since they have no power to change what content gets broadcast. We'll see if something happens. Regardless, I was pretty impressed with the PS&E guy. I called at 9:30 on a Monday morning and dropped a pile of crap on his desk, and went after it.

                          ---------------

                          If anybody from PS&E is reading this, please give an attaboy to your Director of Broadcast Engineering. The problem's not fixed yet, but I feel hopeful.


                          That is great to hear.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                            Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                            This is weird, because I'm pretty sure Cincinnati is more than 75 miles away from Indianapolis.

                            I really don't understand.
                            Anthem, this is definitely not true. I'm in Cincy and you can order LP on Dish, Directv and Time Warner.

                            You probably have to have digital cable with Time Warner. Why would you want Time Warner anyway? Time Warner sux.

                            If you want to switch to dish, I can hook you up. The 100 hour DVR is well worth the switch.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                              Holy cow, I'm annoyed.

                              I finally broke down. I didn't really have the money, but I decided that the day had come. I was going to get League Pass and get every Pacer game. I was ready.

                              So I call up Time Warner Cable, my Cincinnati cable provider, to order League Pass, only to discover that the Indiana Pacers are blacked out.

                              Is this for real? As far as I can tell, I can't get FSI (I assume that's Fox Sports Indiana) and I can't get League Pass. I can't watch any games except for National broadcasts.

                              Can this be right?
                              Originally posted by Eindar View Post
                              I don't see how it could be. The way it's supposed to work is they black out your local team (the team that's on TV in your town). So, any game that's blacked out on league pass should be shown somewhere else. I'd definitely get on the horn with a rep and give them an earful until it's fixed.
                              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                              I'm guessing it's a 100-mile radius. That's all I can figure.
                              These are the types of questions I've been struggling with lately. I shut my cable down...the bill just kept getting higher and higher. I looked into satelite TV and while I still haven't decided which to choose from - DirectTV or DishNetwork - I still think I can get a much better value w/satelite over cable.

                              I don't think my viewing choices would be as restricted as yours because I don't live anywhere near Indy proper. So, I shouldn't be held to the same blackout restrictions, but therein lies my problem. Nobody has given me a clear answer on this issue.

                              For example:

                              If I lived in LA or the surrounding area and wanted to watch the Lakers game but it was broadcast on a local channel, I couldn't get it on NBA-LP nor FSW. But if I lived in San Diego, I probably couldn catch the game on FSW because San Diego is part of their regional viewing area and as such, I probably couldn't catch the game on NBA-LP. (Mind you I'm not 100% sure of the viewing situation in San Diego, but having lived their for a brief time unless they've changed their broadcasting over the years, it's highly unlikely Laker games are aired locally there which would mean the only way to see them would be via cable/satelite TV.)

                              But suppose you're not a Lakers fan. Let's say you were a Heat or Knicks fan but you still lived out West. No DishNetwork or DirectTV rep. has answered this question to my satisfaction yet:

                              "If I live outside a regional area could I pick what regional action I wanted to subscribe to or would I have to subscribe to a premium sports package, i.e., NBA-LP? And if so, would I be subject to the same blackout restrictions to games televised locally as an NBA-LP subscriber even though I don't live in the local or reginal area?"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Ok, now I'm frustrated. (League Pass Problems)

                                Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                                Anthem, this is definitely not true. I'm in Cincy and you can order LP on Dish, Directv and Time Warner.
                                Sorry I wasn't clear. I can order league pass through Time Warner Cable (I already have digital), but they black out all of the Pacer games.

                                You probably have to have digital cable with Time Warner. Why would you want Time Warner anyway? Time Warner sux.
                                Because I don't get broadband with dish. And I don't have a phone line.

                                The 100 hour DVR is well worth the switch.
                                Trust me, my PVR is better.
                                This space for rent.

                                Comment

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