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Thread: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

  1. #26
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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    I really don't understand the Baston hate. He's a high-energy guy with a lot of versatility. I think he could be a sleeper hit for the Pacers this year.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by Leisure Suit Larry View Post
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    Nope, well just a bunch of trouble because all he did was whine.
    You do know that AJ isn't short for Sarunas right. The dude dropped 40 points in a playoff game, that ain't nothin, nobody on this team has done that. NOBODY, Not JO, not Jack. Hell the only person in Pacers History to have more was...dum dum, REGGIE.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by pantsfish View Post
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    I really don't understand the Baston hate. He's a high-energy guy with a lot of versatility. I think he could be a sleeper hit for the Pacers this year.
    We heard the same praise about Sarunas, excuse us for being skeptical.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by pantsfish View Post
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    I really don't understand the Baston hate. He's a high-energy guy with a lot of versatility. I think he could be a sleeper hit for the Pacers this year.

    He showed no hints of defensive ability in the preseason, and when he wasn't getting burned by players like Mikki Moore he was fouling out..all in 20 mpg. At 31, he's not going to show much improvement.

    I don't hate him, but I don't think he's going to make a positive difference for us.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    We heard the same praise about Sarunas, excuse us for being skeptical.
    Right, forgot every player on the same team from the same country plays exactly the same. That'd explain why the Cavaliers have won all those titles the last five years.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by pantsfish View Post
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    Right, forgot every player on the same team from the same country plays exactly the same. That'd explain why the Cavaliers have won all those titles the last five years.
    Is this supposed to mean anything. The facts are simple. They are in Europe for a Reason, they weren't very good, so they couldn't make it in the NBA.

  7. #32

    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    I was sooo looking forward to seeing White out there in a Pacers uniform, and
    the proud moments he would have brought us... This is a very disheartening
    turn of events.

    I really hope he ends up in a better situation than he would have had here
    because he needs and deserves to be out on the floor developing instead
    of sitting on the bench behind players like Jack who are paid way too much
    more while having less ability.

    Good Luck Flight...


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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    This day is going to haunt the franchise.

    They kept Maceo Baston over James White.

    Some day I think that sentence is going to look as stupid to all of us as it looks to me right now.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by jjbjjbjjb View Post
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    This day is going to haunt the franchise.

    They kept Maceo Baston over James White.

    Some day I think that sentence is going to look as stupid to all of us as it looks to me right now.
    You think? I'll make you a gentleman's wager that some day in the not too distant future, we won't remember either of their names. Odds are greater that Marshall or Powell will be better players.

    Keeping Marshall and Powell was the correct decision with the information we have in front of us today.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    October 19, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy
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    If we can cut White, I'd be for that even if it means we'd lose out on everything we gave up to get him. Marshall at this point has won White's spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy
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    I guarantee we won't cut Marshall.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    You think? I'll make you a gentleman's wager that some day in the not too distant future, we won't remember either of their names. Odds are greater that Marshall or Powell will be better players.
    I won't make the wager simply because I hope you're right.

    Uh...however...


    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Keeping Marshall and Powell was the correct decision with the information we have in front of us today.
    It's not about keeping Marshall and Powell. I'm glad for having kept Powell for sure. It's about having kept Baston and Jasikevicius and then having the guts to go out and claim you made a "basketball decision".

    After the draft Bird talked about expecting White and S. Williams to be able to help us by mid-year, not right away; that's what rookies are like. You expect a rookie to struggle early. Meanwhile, everyone on this board knows Jasikevicius had a preseason that was at least as bad as the one White had; meanwhile, as a looooongtime pro he should be expected to do well, but he has shown little here and he has pretty much no potential to get better, certainly no potential to be a starting-caliber PG in this league. Oh, and Baston was awful too.

    Bottom line is that a truly "basketball" decision would have been to cut Saras or Baston.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by jjbjjbjjb View Post
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    Uh, however, it's not about keeping Marshall and Powell. I'm glad for having kept Powell for sure. It's about having kept Baston .
    Fair enough. At least for me, good performance in college *and* good performance in the Euro leagues is a better bet than good performance during senior year of college.

    So, I didn't watch the Tel Aviv team to know first hand, but this the consistent "read" on Baston (this is from ESPN):
    If I had to pick one American who was playing in Europe last season to have NBA success, Baston would unequivocably be my choice. I really don't understand how he slipped through the cracks in the first place. After a solid career at Michigan he played well as a rookie for Toronto in limited minutes, but the NBA forgot about him and he went to Israel. Baston played extremely well for Maccabi Tel Aviv the past few seasons, putting up ridiculous field-goal percentages while more than holding his own on the glass, and the Pacers took note of his accomplishments. He's a bit undersized for a power forward and plays off of others more than creating shots by himself, but he's light years better than many other backup power forwards who will see action this year and at just under $1 million per year he's a steal.
    They both played pretty poorly during summer league. Just seems to be a little more info on Baston to make a decision compared to White. Shrug.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    You think? I'll make you a gentleman's wager that some day in the not too distant future, we won't remember either of their names. Odds are greater that Marshall or Powell will be better players.

    Keeping Marshall and Powell was the correct decision with the information we have in front of us today.
    This is the key.

    That's why I'm not too upset. I would have preferred to see Baston go probably (because I think we're overcrowding it with role players up front; Jeff, Powell, Baston) but as far as being players that can contribute for the Pacers, Powell and Marshall both seem capable of this now and in the future. Welcome aboard fellas!

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    So, does this mean they won't be retiring the #0 anytime soon?

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy View Post
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    October 19, 2006: If we can cut White, I'd be for that even if it means we'd lose out on everything we gave up to get him. Marshall at this point has won White's spot.
    You definitely get props for that.

    Hardly anyone else was talking that way.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    i look at it as if marshall, powell, and greene are so good that we were forced to cut a guy we obviously value a lot (3 2nd rounders). so in theory, we would give up all those 2nd round picks for anyone of the three guys we kept. IMO, that's exciting to think of the potential the pacers believe marshall, powell, and greene have.


    Seriously. You guys need to calm down. Basically we accidentally ended up with so many young promising players that one of them had to get cut, and you guys are acting like its some huge F-up by management. Chill out.

    White may end up being a good player for somebody at some point, but we still got Rawle, Powell, Greene, Williams etc. this year, at least one of whom will probably be an even BETTER player, especially this year. Quityer*****in.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    Seriously. You guys need to calm down. Basically we accidentally ended up with so many young promising players that one of them had to get cut, and you guys are acting like its some huge F-up by management. Chill out.

    White may end up being a good player for somebody at some point, but we still got Rawle, Powell, Greene, Williams etc. this year, at least one of whom will probably be an even BETTER player, especially this year. Quityer*****in.
    With better management, we could've ended up with those same guys, PLUS our 2nd rounders.
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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    With better management, we could've ended up with those same guys, PLUS our 2nd rounders.
    With worse management we could still have AJ and not have Marshall and Powell... Or even worse just DA....

    I guess my only complaint is that we did keep Baston. I know we wanted big guys but is he any better than Foster or Harrison?

    Overall I am pretty happy with this team and can't complain and will cheer for them from game 1 till our final game.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    So are we rebuilding or revamping or what? This much-hyped, freak athlete that was going to be a dynamic defensive stopper gone. What was the point of the draft? Williams is years away. ****. They obviously were full of crap when they said that they knew exactly who they wanted and got them for great prices. That trade stuff and us resigning White better be true or this is really going to put a damper on my expectations for the season. I don't know what they are doing; whether Rawle played better during the preseason isn't the deal; they are confused and don't know where they are taking this franchise. Let's just scrap the entire team and plunge into the bottom ten, screwing ATL over and at least making use of a draft pick. Start rebuilding and maybe we'll be at championship caliber once I graduate. This was completely unexpected. I'm losing faith in LB and DW.

    I don't agree with cutting White and I think that they need to redeem themselves (at trade or whatever). This should not be the way that they admit that they made roster mistakes through release. (SIGH)
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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    With better management, we could've ended up with those same guys, PLUS our 2nd rounders.
    Yes, perhaps if they were psychic on draft night they'd know that two throw-ins from a trade that hadn't even been thought of yet would outplay their second-round pick.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    I still really don't understand the argument that cutting White means the management F-ed up. I still see the problem as having too many talented guys on the bubble, and somebody having to get cut.

    If Marshall or Powell had been cut most of you guys would be just as pissed off.

    Am I missing something here? The anger here just doesn't add up to me.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    I still really don't understand the argument that cutting White means the management F-ed up. I still see the problem as having too many talented guys on the bubble, and somebody having to get cut.

    If Marshall or Powell had been cut most of you guys would be just as pissed off.

    Am I missing something here? The anger here just doesn't add up to me.
    Well, most people going off about this are not offering viable alternatives on who should have been cut.

    Several mention Runi and that's not a serious comment ($4 million/year).

    A few have mentioned Baston, and that is a bit more reasonable, but he's guarranteed either one or two million as well. BBall offered up the possibility of cutting Armstrong, but no one seems to like the suggestion.

    So, you can criticize TPTB for trading to draft White in the first place, and you can criticize for guarranteeing money to Baston, but, now that all that is water under the bridge, you can can't criticize this decision, unless you want to name Powell, Green, or Williams as your alternative cut.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    I still really don't understand the argument that cutting White means the management F-ed up. I still see the problem as having too many talented guys on the bubble, and somebody having to get cut.

    If Marshall or Powell had been cut most of you guys would be just as pissed off.

    Am I missing something here? The anger here just doesn't add up to me.
    I would have been even more pissed off if Marshall had been cut. It would take a blind man not to realize Marshall won a spot over White by a long shot, not to mention that he has a years experience in the league. I mean, what part of an average of 8 points, 1 block, 1 steal, 79% free throw shooting, and 48% field goal shooting in 18 minutes doesn't look attractive?

    The only reason everybody is angry is because we traded 2nd round draft picks to get White. If they were first rounders, then there might be an argument. But I'm sure it wouldn't take much to acquire a 2nd round pick or two to replace the ones we lost. It's not like we took a big risk or anything.

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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    So you're completely fine with wasting picks in the draft and that that does not reflect bad management and/or bad judgment. Btw, JW > RM if only for the Slam Dunk thing. There's no proof that White was a bust and Marshall really isn't that good at all.

    Wait, Mckeyfan, you can't criticize something that has already past? Eh? I'm usually kind of bad a criticizing the future but I guess I'll go ahead and say that we may not regret this decision as much as we will see it as the wrong one. Once again, they had better trade and get him back.
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    Default Re: White Released In "Agonizing Decision" {Pacers.com}

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    Not at all.

    For me, it's not an issue of which player is better -- it's a question of management's assessment of James White in the draft, and their willingness to give up 3 draft picks for a guy it turns out couldn't even make the roster.

    I don't fault them for keeping the player they feel is the better one, I fault them for their pre-draft talent assessments and draft day trade decision.
    The guy they were "prepared to take" in the first round if Shawne Williams wasn't available.

    I'm not sure I trust these guys as a judge of talent any more, let alone their admitted problem of "falling in love with talent."

    I don't see that much "upside" to Marshall. Sorry, but I just don't. I think Powell has a small amount of upside because of his size.

    I don't know much of anything about White except that I thought he'd have a chance to crack the rotation. But we are talking about Rick Carlisle - the rookie with the guaranteed contract is going to have a hard enough time getting minutes, let alone the rookie drafted in the second round.
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