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Thread: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    This will be very short. NBATV is doing their previews of the season. 90 minutes on the eastern conference and 90 minutes on the western conference.

    Our good friend Peter Vescey was on. He said that Rick was told by TPTB that he had to change to an uptempo style and he had to commit to Jamaal Tinsley. Vescey didn't say it point blank but I take those comments to mean that if Rick didn't or doesn't do those two things he won't be the coach for very long. Vescey then said that AJ was traded so Jamaal and Rick both knew that Jamaal was the starter.

    Vescey also said that the Pacers didn't try that hard to trade Jax during the offseason. I take that to mean that yes they tried to trade him, but certainly not at all costs.


    Fred Carter was optimistic on the Pacers chances this season, Vescey thinks the cloud is still hanging over the franchise

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    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Nice to to know our entire strategy rests on the ankles of Tinsley, the very unreliable ankles at that.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    I would guess this will clear up Tinsley's sinus problems.
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    I'm beginnng to think Bird is the problem. I'm not there yet, but I'm beginning to wonder.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    I'm beginnng to think Bird is the problem. I'm not there yet, but I'm beginning to wonder.
    Well considering he shipped out our only reliable PG so that we can put even more pressure on an unreliable PG. I don't think its a stretch of the Imagination

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    But, it has been reported that Tins is happier. Maybe that will keep him healthy.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    I'm beginnng to think Bird is the problem. I'm not there yet, but I'm beginning to wonder.
    What's Walsh doing? Fiddling while Pacerland burns?

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I would guess this will clear up Tinsley's sinus problems.
    I'm wondering this myself.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Although its speculation on UBs part......I'm not entirely confident in Bird's "Give Carlisle absolutely no choice but to start Tinsley and ( likely...at least for now ) Sarunas as the 1st and 2nd PG options by trading away AJ" approach to GM'ing.
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    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Look at it this way...

    Tinsley, when healthy and motivated, is one of the top PGs in the game.

    Johnson, when healthy and motivated, is mediocre.

    TPTB often get critized for "settling". Well, this is a gamble.
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    What's Walsh doing? Fiddling while Pacerland burns?

    -Bball
    Exactly. When something good happens, I read a lot of this: "Walsh is one of the best, most respected GMs in the league! He doesn't want to go out on a bad note. Meanwhile, Larry "Boomer for Adults" Bird continues to sit there as a figurehead when he's not out taking a European vacation."

    When things go bad, I read a lot of this: "This is all Larry's fault. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's ruining everything. He's *insert a list of a dozen mistakes here*" as if he was in control the whole time.

    Usually the same people do both. It can't be both ways, folks.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Look at it this way...

    Tinsley, when healthy and motivated, is one of the top PGs in the game.

    Johnson, when healthy and motivated, is mediocre.

    TPTB often get critized for "settling". Well, this is a gamble.
    This is also spot on. For better or worse, we're not settling, which I think most agree may have cost us potential championships in the past decade or so.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Exactly. When something good happens, I read a lot of this: "Walsh is one of the best, most respected GMs in the league! He doesn't want to go out on a bad note. Meanwhile, Larry "Boomer for Adults" Bird continues to sit there as a figurehead when he's not out taking a European vacation."

    When things go bad, I read a lot of this: "This is all Larry's fault. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's ruining everything. He's *insert a list of a dozen mistakes here*" as if he was in control the whole time.

    Usually the same people do both. It can't be both ways, folks.
    True. That's why I was lobbying last summer for Kiki V. to replace *both* of them.

    I don't know which one to blame for the overall mess, but I do know some of these "mistakes" were very, very uncharacteristic of Wlash for his first 18 years or so. But maybe that had more to do with what's-his-name-Kahn returing to Portand than his replacement (Bird).
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Look at it this way...

    Tinsley, when healthy and motivated, is one of the top PGs in the game.

    Johnson, when healthy and motivated, is mediocre.

    TPTB often get critized for "settling". Well, this is a gamble.
    No when Tinsley is healthy and motivated he is a top 15 PG in the league(which is very very very rare)

    When Johnson is healthy and motivated he was able to perform as if he was a top 15 players(But he was healthy and motived 95%+ of the time)

    And you know, frankly I am tired of gambles, why can't we take the safe bet.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    There's talk of Johnson vying for the starting point guard spot possibly down the line, I almost fell out of my chair. Of course that's just some writer's opinion, but wow.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...r.27e3752.html

    Q: I want to ask, who is likely to receive the remaining roster spot for the Mavs? And what will happen to Keith Van Horn? Have they officially waived him? And how does Devin Harris look to be taking to the starting point guard spot?

    Scott Godfrey, Tasmania, Australia.

    MOORE: First off, let me say there will be no lame, Tasmanian Devil jokes here. If you wanted that, you would have sent this during Big Ed's week. Here, in lightening round form, are the answers to your questions.

    One: Forward Pops Mensah-Bonsu (George Washington) and guard Jose Barea (Northeastern) will nail down the final two roster spots.

    Two: Van Horn won't be back and is free to sign with any team. So far, he hasn't worked out a deal.

    Three: Harris has been erratic this preseason. He may open the season as the starting point guard, but don't discount Anthony Johnson.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Hicks - On the question of Walsh vs Bird. I consider two things to be 100% Bird. The recruitment and signing of Saras and the drafting of Williams and White. Saras has been a disaster so I give Bird 100% blame for that. We don't know anything about White or Williams yet .

    Bird has been here over 3 years now and every other decision made (besides the two I mentioned) I consider to either be all Walsh or partially Walsh and partially Bird.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Hicks - On the question of Walsh vs Bird. I consider two things to be 100% Bird. The recruitment and signing of Saras and the drafting of Williams and White. Saras has been a disaster so I give Bird 100% blame for that. We don't know anything about White or Williams yet .

    Bird has been here over 3 years now and every other decision made (besides the two I mentioned) I consider to either be all Walsh or partially Walsh and partially Bird.
    I think that's incomplete.

    I think the "holding on to a player that's hurting your team because you're demanding 'equal value'" is very un-Donnie-Walsh like.

    Specifically, I've heard before that Donnie was at the end of his rope with Artest before Bird came along. Whether or not you believe that Donnie was ready to trade Ron in 2004 and Bird got "greedy", wanting more, well I guess that's subject to interpretation. But a lot of people have made those assumptions and I think they are reasonable assumptions.

    Regardless, the two-headed monster we've got has clearly left the team meandering through the wilderness, without a compass.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    No when Tinsley is healthy and motivated he is a top 15 PG in the league(which is very very very rare)
    Are you kidding me? The only reason Tinsley is ranked that low (only a top-15) is because of his injury status.

    Of course there is concern over his history of injuries. Duh. But if he were really just a top-15 PG the Pacers would've moved on a long time ago. There's obviously something "special" about the way Tinsley runs the team when he plays that makes him worth the risk.

    Or, you're saying TPTB make even dumber decisions that I think they do. And maybe that's true... But if so, the you should probably direct your venom toward management, and not Tinsley.

    Its not Tinsley's fault this team plays so badly without him.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #19
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    I just have one question: Did we or did we not get a trade exemption in the Anthony Johnson deal that allowed us to take on John Edwards?

    That's what the point of that deal was I thought, but seeing as how both us and Dallas are over the cap, I'm not sure why we would have gotten one.

    If we didn't get a exemption there, how did we take on Edwards? For the pick?

    I thought I knew what happened. Now I'm just confused.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    When completely heathy who are the only PG's that are better?

    Because in our Division I can think of 2 possibly 3(The bulls unfortunately can only use one starting PG) another divison Atlantic Kidd, Marbury, AI, and Francis. Thats 5 or 6 better than him and I used 2 divisions. Hell lets just go with the whole east lets not forget about Arenas, so right there that 7-8 better than Tinman.

    Then to just toss out a few names from the West, Parker, Nash, Paul, um Davis. Thats 11-12.

    Now I am sure I am missing some. But I really don't think you can claim Tinsley is better than ANY of these guys.

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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Are you kidding me? The only reason Tinsley is ranked that low (only a top-15) is because of his injury status.

    Of course there is concern over his history of injuries. Duh. But if he were really just a top-15 PG the Pacers would've moved on a long time ago. There's obviously something "special" about the way Tinsley runs the team when he plays that makes him worth the risk.

    Or, you're saying TPTB make even dumber decisions that I think they do. And maybe that's true... But if so, the you should probably direct your venom toward management, and not Tinsley.

    Its not Tinsley's fault this team plays so badly without him.
    I don't know that I'd call Tinsley a top 15 PG while including his injuries. I haven't made a list or anything but I bet I could find 15 guys I'd rather have playing the point for a whole season rather than Tinsley for 1/2.

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    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    And you know, frankly I am tired of gambles, why can't we take the safe bet.
    Well, there is no such thing as a 100% safe bet... :-)

    It's very hard to get a championship without taking risks.
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    I'd take Duhon over Tinsley, but not Hinrich. (I'm not sold on Hinrich yet).

    I don't know if I'd take an aging Kidd over Tinsley. Marberry, Francis, and AI are lousy examples because they're shoot-first PGs and aren't very good at running an offense and would hurt the Pacers.

    Parker, Nash, Paul, maybe Davis... yes... I'm not saying Tinsley is the best. But you're picking a lot of shoot-first PGs I wouldn't touch.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
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    I don't know that I'd call Tinsley a top 15 PG while including his injuries. I haven't made a list or anything but I bet I could find 15 guys I'd rather have playing the point for a whole season rather than Tinsley for 1/2.
    That's my point. But if I've got Tinsley for a whole season (yes, I know its a big "if"), I can't think of 15 I'd rather have.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  25. #25

    Default Re: Vescey on NBATV eastern conference preview

    I think we're talking actual point guards here.......Arenas, AI, these guys don't distribute..they shoot. I could easily see Tin Man being Top 15 Point Guard

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