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Thread: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

  1. #1
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2006610160405

    Ticket-tax idea does another encore
    This time, fee for events using city services would go to public safety, but concept has never won approval



    By Brendan O'Shaughnessy
    brendan.oshaughnessy@indystar.com

    A City-County Council committee will consider a proposal this month to impose a fee on events that rely on the police and fire departments to help pay for wider public-safety needs.

    What's next

    The City-County Council's Rules and Public Policy Committee will consider a proposal to impose a special-events ticket fee to create a public safety fund at its Oct. 31 meeting.

    The author of the idea, Republican Councilman Isaac Randolph, said the assignment of police forces to special events creates a void in neighborhood safety that the event fee should help fill. He wants to use the money to pay for police overtime, crime prevention programs for youths and to build a new jail.

    Basing his calculations on events such as Pacers games and the Indy 500, Randolph estimated that a fee equal to 10 percent of the ticket price would bring in $4 million to $6 million a year. The fee would be capped at $3 per ticket. By using the new revenue to issue bonds, the fund could raise up to $46 million per year, he said.

    Rozelle Boyd, chairman of the committee that will consider Randolph's proposal, said the idea of a ticket tax is not new. Similar proposals have come before the council only to be shot down, he said. Problems include making a distinction over what events to tax and how such fees affect existing contracts.

    "We'll have to see what about this version makes it more palatable than (others) in the past," Boyd said.
    Mayor Bart Peterson said the idea has also come up within his administration and in committees struggling with the city's crisis in public-safety funding. The city must find $400 million over the next two decades to pay for police and firefighter pensions.

    "On the surface, it appears to be the right thing to do because special events are a cost to the city," Peterson said. "The problem is we're trying to add events, and this adds to the cost."

    He said charging for a police presence at an event like Indiana Black Expo's Summer Celebration runs counter to the purpose of trying to support the events, which pump money into the local economy and help to raise the city's profile.
    Peterson said a public-safety ticket fee is a worthwhile idea but would likely run into the same problems. He hadn't yet reviewed the specifics of Randolph's proposal.

    The city and the Colts opposed a $3 ticket tax to help pay for a new football stadium last year. Instead, stadium construction is being funded with restaurant, hotel and car rental taxes.

    Randolph said he thought it was important to reach consensus in the business community before a new fee is created.

    "We don't want to rush into this," he said, "but we need to do something."

    ================================================== ================================================== ======================================

    I don't know about the rest of you, but this scares the hell out of me as a season ticket holder. The worst thing about it is...it seems like this is being exclusively bankrolled by Pacer Season Ticket Holders. The Colts get a pass due to their agreement with the city and Jim Irsay putting his foot down, but even if the Colts fans do have to "pony" up for this tax, the most it will cost a colt season ticket holder is $30 per year (10 games) no matter how expesnsive his seats are. For my 2 nose bleed seats up in the balcony, I'm looking at nearly a $200 increase per season. I know a lot of you roll pretty loaded down in the pockets, but my season tickets are a good majority of my disposable entertainment dollars. Having to pay an increase like this would seriously hurt the Pacers fan base more then any other team or sports facility in Indianapolis. There are a lot more fans like myself that give most of the entertainment dollars to PS&E and a $200 increase would cripple their chances to own season tickets.

    I understand having to pay for the security at games, but as far as I know...the Pacers already pay for these services. Funding "youth programs" and "a new jail" seem to be the wrong avenue for a the fund generated by a ticket tax. I know these things have to be paid for, but sticking it "exclusively" on the backs of the Pacers season ticket holders is a bit much! You can only go to the Indy 500 once a year, you can only go to Colts games 10 to 12 times a year, but sticking Pacer fans anywhere between 46 and 62 games is BS!
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  2. #2
    Nude Poster Shack80's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    I can see where you are coming from, there should be a more equatable solution.

  3. #3
    Member RamBo_Lamar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    Oh great....

    So we already have enough people threatening to stop buying tickets, and
    this dufus Republican Councilman Isaac Randolph trying to increase ticket
    prices.

    A.) The council needs to be petitioned to not go along with it, and strike it
    down.
    B.) Politicians like this guy who try to raise taxes instead of lower them
    need to be voted out of office.

    I think most people would rather see both these things happen than
    folks simply refusing to buy tickets and saying "to hell with it".

    Wow... I might just have to take a break from getting on here and seeing
    some of this stuff. It's been getting too easy lately to get the blood
    pressure raised with some of the recent events going on, without having
    some bozo low-level politician trying to create new problems for the Pacers,
    while stealing more of the fans' money.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    Randolph wants to run for Mayor. Guess he's decided Pacers season ticket holders in the cheap seats are the easiest target to add financing for public safety. Ticket in the lower level are already nearly unaffordable to the average fan now anyway. Raising the price of the cheaper tickets substantially...20 percent for a $15 ticket...is a really bad idea.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    The police department and courts have been doing public safety on the cheap for several years. More funding and other reforms are needed. And the police department does make a special effort, including extra duty for many officers, at all special events. So there is a strong case for drawing the cost of added public safety at big events from those who attend them.

    Gnome, you make a very strong point, but you have to admit that 41 events a year places more of a burden on the police than 8 events or one event per year.

    A "good" tax has three qualities.

    1. It provides enough money to adequately fund the public need.
    2. It does not distort the market by discouraging demand for a commercial good, except when that good is hazardous or undesirable.
    3. The burden of payment is fairly distributed to, a) those who benefit, and/or, b) those who can best afford to pay.

    I hope you'll attend the committee meeting and state your case. You can argue against the tax on the basis of 2, 3a and 3b. Maybe you could argue that $3 on a $25 Pacers ticket is a 12% tax, while $3 on a $200 Colts ticket is only 1.5%, and its not fair to tax different people differently for the same benefit. If you bring in the Indians, the tax looks even more unfair.

    Good luck.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  6. #6
    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    this dufus Republican Councilman
    Oops, you forgot to mention this dufus democrat:
    Mayor Bart Peterson said the idea has also come up within his administration and in committees struggling with the city's crisis in public-safety funding. The city must find $400 million over the next two decades to pay for police and firefighter pensions.

    "On the surface, it appears to be the right thing to do because special events are a cost to the city," Peterson said.
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

  7. #7
    Member RamBo_Lamar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    3. The burden of payment is fairly distributed to, a) those who benefit, and/or, b) those who can best afford to pay.
    Very good idea. So instead of sticking it to the fan who is already likely
    dealing with the added burden of ever increasing property taxes and such,
    come up with a tax for those employed as professional athletes.

    Have a sliding scale where those that make the most, pay the most. Some
    of these guys make alot more in 1 year than most people make in a
    lifetime. So let them cover whatever added expenses might be inccured
    since they are clearly the ones who benefit the most with their obscenely
    lucrative employment opportunities.

  8. #8
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    A new jail and youth programs should not be put on the backs of a select few when these items benefit the community as a whole.

    Putnam, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with the tax if it refunded resources used by area sports teams like the "overtime" it takes for traffic control, local law enforcement for gametime security, and on site First Responders. I have a problem with funding things that are normally paid by Marion County as a whole. I understand that the Pacers and their fans use these services between 46 and 62 times a season, but these services for the 16,000 to 18,000 that attend Pacer games is just a blip on the radar compared to the 55,000 that attend one Colt game, or the 300K to 400,000 that attend the Speedway on race day.

    Also another issue in this that is not mentioned...The Colts in their new lease with the city have a clause about any Ticket Tax now and in the Future. Remember how the Stadium ground breaking was delayed 45 days due to the Colts holding out on signing the lease. That was not just to get out of a ticket tax for the construction of "The Luke". The CIB was willing to let that go, but what the Colts won in the lease was the right to refuse "ALL NEW TICKET TAXES". With the City wanting to break ground on to be able to open in 2008, they had to knuckle under to the Jim Irsay's demands!!!

    Colts 1......CIB 0!
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  9. #9
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ticket Tax...scary to this season ticket holder

    Well, I hate the fact that this got moved to the "petty partisian politics" side of the board. I know that this is more of an issue for here, but I just hope that the "usual course of business" doesn't cloud this issue.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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