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Thread: Giving Away Jackson

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    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default Giving Away Jackson

    Larry Bird said early in the off season that two of their goals were to create a team that was fun to watch, and to have players that the fans like. You can make an argument that so far he may have accomplished goal number one. This is only the preseason and the Pacers are 1-2. Despite their record they have shown that they are a much quicker team that can run up and down the floor. Theyíve also shown the ability to create turnovers on the defensive end, something they werenít too good at last season.

    Itís only the preseason, so itís a bit unfair to look down on this team and its 1-2 record. However, itís not unfair to overlook the fact that the other part of Birdís promise has not been kept. Itís become obvious in the first three meaningless preseason games that Stephen Jackson isnít exactly a player the fans like, and now after the strip club incident, itís going to be hard for him get rid of the guy the fans donít like.

    Thereís only three ways it can happen. 1.) We take a slightly unfair trade that gives us a player thatís overpaid in return. 2.) We bench him with pay for as long as necessary until we can move him via trade. 3.) We release him from his contract once he is convicted and given jail time. Thereís also the option of negotiating a buy-out of his contract.

    This might be a more frustrating situation for the fans than last years Artest trade saga. At least with the Artest situation you had a player that nobody questioned on the court, had all the talent in the world, but had just worn out his welcome, and lost all the trust of the people in Indiana. With Jackson, you have a guy whoís on-court decisions are questioned, whines to officials, and is now facing the possibility of doing some jail time for his troubles off the court.

    I strongly believe Jacksonís every intention coming in was to show everybody just how good of a guy he can be. He wanted to erase the past and work on having a successful and bright future in Indiana. One bad decision at a strip club blew any chance he had at redemption.

    Now the question is, what the heck do Bird, Walsh, Carlisle & Co. do to get this guy out of town? The only way I see it happening is via trade. Whoís dumb enough to take on Jackson and his problems you ask? Well, who knows.

    First, this is no situation where Bird and Co. can hold off for maximum value in return. It just wonít happen here. If you want to find a positive in the situation, we wouldnít be getting rid of Jackson for nothing no matter what. Why? Because the guy we traded to get him is back on the roster again. Having a guy you traded a few seasons ago back on your roster, in addition to the guy you got in return for him, can only be seen as a positive.

    The previous paragraph was a setup for the following. What we get in return for Jackson will be quite lopsided. We might have to take on a player that might be a risk in return. Or we might take on a guy thatís overpaid. I did a search for teams that might have somebody theyíd probably like to move, that could also benefit from a having a guy with the toughness of a Stephen Jackson on their team. Ready? Hereís what I came up with:



    This trade makes even more sense with the news that the Knicksí Jared Jeffries is out with a broken wrist. Itís a bad contract for the Pacers to take, but at least it gives us a player that would be hard for fans to dislike. Heíd also give the Pacers a decent threat from the outside Ė more threatening than Jackson [no pun intended].

    The Knicks can benefit from Jacksonís toughness on the court combined with his durability. That would be something they havenít had much of since John Starks. His attitude might actually bring out the best in guys like Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis. He might actually have a long shot at becoming a team leader thereÖ Did I just say that?

    Regardless of that happens, something needs to be done. Iím a Stephen Jackson fan, and I want to see him succeed, but itís blatantly obvious that it wonít happen here. Itís time to close this chapter and start working those phones before the season gets started. At this point, the team is much better off without him.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Giving Away Jackson

    I think a lot of people wish we could just cut ties with Jackson right now. That's easier said than done, though. If we were to go into a trade with the idea in mind that we wouldn't get equal value back, what would you be willing to give up?

    Here's a trade I would do:

    Sarunas Jasikevicius, Jeff Foster, and Stephen Jackson for Kyle Lowry, Eddie Jones, and a future first-round draft pick.

    Think Memphis would go for that?

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Giving Away Jackson

    Our lineup would then be:

    JO / Harrison / Powell
    Harrington / Baston / Williams
    Granger / White / Marshall
    Daniels / E.Jones
    Tinsley / Armstrong / Greene / Lowry

    Thoughts?

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    If we are going to start talking about Promises Bird has to keep lets not forget the "If JO can't handle the leadership role this year we will have to find somebody else" and please if Fans got to dictate who a team kept and got rid of the Pacers would have drafted Alford and remained a pathetic excuse for a pro team.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    At this point, we'd be lucky to get a bag of chips for Jack. No, seriously. I hear Chicago might offer us some fritos, though.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    If we are going to start talking about Promises Bird has to keep lets not forget the "If JO can't handle the leadership role this year we will have to find somebody else"
    I think that's part of the reason why we brought DA to the team. He didn't say he was going to trade JO. He just said he'd have to find somebody else. I wouldn't say that's a broken promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    and please if Fans got to dictate who a team kept and got rid of the Pacers would have drafted Alford and remained a pathetic excuse for a pro team.
    This is a different situation. It's not like Jackson hasn't had the chance to play and prove himself. The fans can speak by booing, and if TPTB don't get the point there, they'll get it by the fans showing them what the seats look like when nobody is sitting in them. Looks like step #2 has already begun.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    At this point, we'd be lucky to get a bag of chips for Jack. No, seriously. I hear Chicago might offer us some fritos, though.
    If Chicago makes it the chili-flavored fritos, I would have to seriously consider it.

    I think Jack's current legal troubles are going to scare a lot of teams off. So if Jack is going to be moved off this team through trade, it won't be until he's done in court (which might take a while).

    You're right, though. If we do move Jack, we're going to probably take on a player with a bad contract.

    If you've resigned yourself to the fact that you need to get rid of Jack no matter what, you could probably just waive him. Maybe some team will take a chance, pick him up off waivers, and help pay for the rest of his contract.

    But if we've learned anything about Donnie Walsh over the years, it's that he's very patient. He's probably going to wait until all the legal stuff is over, then make his move.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Oh please its inhernetly the same thing, you can not let a bunch of fans dictate the decisions your franchise makes. They are amateurs the guys that pcik our players and decide the moves are professionals. They know what goes on in the lockerroom they know who likes who, they know who works hardest in the practice. All these things we don't really know well enough to take into account.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    I think Jack's current legal troubles are going to scare a lot of teams off.
    The fact that he has a long-term contract and isn't very good probably won't help either.
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    Oh please its inhernetly the same thing, you can not let a bunch of fans dictate the decisions your franchise makes. They are amateurs the guys that pcik our players and decide the moves are professionals. They know what goes on in the lockerroom they know who likes who, they know who works hardest in the practice. All these things we don't really know well enough to take into account.
    It's beyond what goes on behind the scenes now. The fans don't know what goes on behind the scenes because they don't pay to see what goes on behind the scenes. They pay to see the game played. The majority of them don't like Jackson, and I'd bet there's plenty of them that have decided not to get tickets to games because this latest Jackson incident is reminding them of the same 'ol Indiana Pacers they've been used to for the last 3 seasons.

    TPTB can ignore the fans all they want, but the Simons will eventually push for Jackson to be removed from the team when they see attendance numbers down. Moving Jackson is more of a business decision than a personel decision. They're going to have to do it. They really can't afford not to.

    They can either keep Jackson and lose money, or do SOMETHING with him and get the fans excited about the team again. I know you back Jack, and I mentioned before that I back Jackson too, but if you look at this from a business standpoint, it's pretty easy to understand why doing something to keep Jackson off the roster is the best thing they can do for themselves right now. Allowing him to keep playing is going to hurt them big time.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Giving Away Jackson

    It's definitely the type of trade I would expect. I'm not sure if Memphis would do it though. After their experience with Bonzi, I don't know if they'd want to take on Jack. If they did agree to it, I think you'd have to take Lowry and/or the future first out of the trade for them to do it.

    Other than Jack though, I think they'd be interested in Saras and Foster.

    If the trade happened, I'd be OK with it.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    At this point, I'd have no problem releasing Jackson.

    I realize he's a decent player, and I realize he's a good guy, but as with the Artest experiement, I'm ready for the Stephen Jackson chapter to end......
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    Default Re: Giving Away Jackson

    why would the grizzlies make this trade? they need a frontline player with dominant offensive skills. last time i checked foster's lack of offensive prowess is one of the main reasons pacer fans want to trade him.

    also, i think asking for lowry is too much. how about dahntay jones (isn't he related to al somehow?)

    JO / Harrison / Powell
    Harrington / Baston / Williams
    Granger / White / Marshall
    Daniels / E.Jones / D.Jones
    Tinsley / Armstrong / Greene

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken


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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Oh please its inhernetly the same thing, you can not let a bunch of fans dictate the decisions your franchise makes.
    I agree. Just listen to every NBA and NFL draft EVER. Fans screw up way more often than any decent GM or owner, they just don't hold themselves accountable.

    Most of the fans booing Jack right now were ripping on the AJ for Armstrong trade too...now they look like idiots (IMO) with what throw-ins Powell and Marshall have brought to camp.


    What empty seats look like? Really? So you are telling me that fans hate Jack so much that they will not support or come watch Granger and Harrington? Yeah, get back to me on that.

    Team wins they come...even if Jack stinks up the joint every night. If the team wins with Jack going 1-15 every single night fans will still show up. Why? Because it means that guys like JO, Granger, Al, etc are doing enough to win, and therefore enough to want to come watch. No one skipped Bulls games because Bill Wennington went 2-10 or because Rodman had a bad rep...because Jordan was the show.

    And if Jack goes 10-15 every night and the team loses the fans won't come and will still call in and say things like "sure he's 60% from the field, but I still hate him for the Rio thing". He could save cats from trees and help grannies cross the street too, but if the team loses the fans will stay away.


    If TPTB thinks that Jack is a problem on the court or with the team, then I assume they will move him. If they think he helps the situation then they keep him. You don't listen to the most fickle fanbase in all major sports (excluding Atlanta fans who just never show up no matter what).


    I'm not even saying keep Jack, I'm just saying that trading him because of booing is stupid. Trade a guy because it makes the team better. Ron had to go because his attitude was extremely disruptive in the locker room and on the court at times (he admitted to not even giving his all due to his low paycheck in a recent interview) and it was clear that he intended to keep doing things like asking for time off (got a suspension from Rick) or asking to be traded.

    At least Jack appears (if we trust Larry and Rick) to be putting in the effort and trying to earn the paycheck.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What empty seats look like? Really? So you are telling me that fans hate Jack so much that they will not support or come watch Granger and Harrington? Yeah, get back to me on that.
    I think that is what he's telling you and I think he might be right.

    This isn't a normal situation and it's been building. Sjax had already lost the fans to the point many wondered how the team could bring him back and what they could do to rehab his image. Well, with his image being on life support and part of the Pacers' new marketing campaign, he blew the whole thing up. He (and his compadres) made the campaign into a joke. So much so that they had to pull it because the whole campaign looked blatantly silly.

    It's turned into a caustic, cancerous situation. Likely, a vicious cycle. Someone will tell me that winning cures all, but it's hard to imagine much winning with a player creating this many distractions (thru his own actions AND thru the fans' actions now). It's not like Sjax is that good that he can make the fans forget and rise above it all. His game is filled with bad decisions and it's hard to see fans accepting the bad with the good at this point.

    Things are too raw right now and it has the potential to get ugly.

    -Bball
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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Things are too raw right now and it has the potential to get ugly.

    -Bball
    Agreed. And yet, I can't imagine a team trading for Jack while the felony charge is still outstanding. How long before the whole thing goes to trial? A year?

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    At this point, I'd have no problem releasing Jackson.

    I realize he's a decent player, and I realize he's a good guy, but as with the Artest experiement, I'm ready for the Stephen Jackson chapter to end......

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Agreed. And yet, I can't imagine a team trading for Jack while the felony charge is still outstanding. How long before the whole thing goes to trial? A year?
    It's fairly common to waive your right to a speedy trial so it could drag on. OTOH, if he doesn't waive his right to a speedy trial I was thinking that the state had 90 days to bring it to trial. I could be wrong.

    But the questions probably are: "What is the prosecutor offering?" "What is Sjax willing to accept?" and "What does Michigan have to say about all this in regards to probation?"

    The probation question probably makes this a bit stickier than it otherwise would be to plea bargain.

    I'm not sure I'd look for any movement until after the elections.

    -Bball
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
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    If we are going to start talking about Promises Bird has to keep lets not forget the "If JO can't handle the leadership role this year we will have to find somebody else" and please if Fans got to dictate who a team kept and got rid of the Pacers would have drafted Alford and remained a pathetic excuse for a pro team.
    JO couldn't handle it. That's why we brought in Al and Armstrong.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I agree. Just listen to every NBA and NFL draft EVER. Fans screw up way more often than any decent GM or owner, they just don't hold themselves accountable.

    Most of the fans booing Jack right now were ripping on the AJ for Armstrong trade too...now they look like idiots (IMO) with what throw-ins Powell and Marshall have brought to camp.
    I think you are giving TPTB too much credit. They are supposed to be professionals and certainly have more information than the average fan.

    However, look objectively at performance and consider where this team is compared to 6 years ago. To be sure, there have been more mistakes than correct decisions during that time period. Otherwise, we would not be in the mess we are now. If this were a normal company, some of the executives would be getting cut loose.

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    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I think that is what he's telling you and I think he might be right.

    This isn't a normal situation and it's been building. Sjax had already lost the fans to the point many wondered how the team could bring him back and what they could do to rehab his image. Well, with his image being on life support and part of the Pacers' new marketing campaign, he blew the whole thing up. He (and his compadres) made the campaign into a joke. So much so that they had to pull it because the whole campaign looked blatantly silly.

    It's turned into a caustic, cancerous situation. Likely, a vicious cycle. Someone will tell me that winning cures all, but it's hard to imagine much winning with a player creating this many distractions (thru his own actions AND thru the fans' actions now). It's not like Sjax is that good that he can make the fans forget and rise above it all. His game is filled with bad decisions and it's hard to see fans accepting the bad with the good at this point.

    Things are too raw right now and it has the potential to get ugly.

    -Bball

    Exactly. In fact many fans didn't bother to show up for last seasons playoffs. The ones that did got their point across by booing Jackson after every bad decision he made. Jackson is the one guy on this team that the majority of the fans want gone. Second would be Tinsley, but I think the majority of the fans can deal with him being on the team. It's not like Tinsley makes a lot of bad decisions, he just has missed a lot of time due to injuries and illnesses.

    They need SJax to go in order to eliminate the cloud over the team right now.

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    Default Re: On Jackson; The Fans Have Spoken

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Most of the fans booing Jack right now were ripping on the AJ for Armstrong trade too...now they look like idiots (IMO) with what throw-ins Powell and Marshall have brought to camp.
    So you're ready to declare victory on that one? As much as Powell and Marshall have brought to camp, they still haven't actually brought anything to a real game. I like their energy and some of their skills, but jeez, right now all I see is two guys that in a few years might crack our playoff rotation.

    Meanwhile our PG spot is a mess and the guy that bailed us out the last few years is in Texas.

    Don't know if I agree with you on this man. At the very least, you'll have to admit that it's a "we'll see" situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What empty seats look like? Really? So you are telling me that fans hate Jack so much that they will not support or come watch Granger and Harrington? Yeah, get back to me on that.
    Remember, a lot of people don't go to games just 'cause its fun to watch. Some take their kids, for example, and right now I'm sure families are staying home because they don't want their kids seeing some of these guys as role models. Corporate types, meanwhile, won't want their company associated with the stereotypes the Pacers are facing. I don't necessarily want to skewer Jackson myself, but there's a lot of negativity out there right now. I think there will be a hit in attendance unless Jax is moved.

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    Default Re: Giving Away Jackson

    We are discussing preseason ticket sales here, people. I for one never go to preseason games. They cost the same as regular season games and I will not pay money to see Sean Lampley play.

    People still pay for tickets in Philly when the Sixers are winning, and AI is not exactly role model material. So, does everyone agree that attendance would go UP if the team traded for a bunch of "milk drinkers" with marginal talent? Because I disagree with you there. Winning sells tickets. People stayed away last year because the team was bad. Remember, Atlanta and Charlotte have a lot of good character guys that are fun to watch but the seats are empty. Winning solves all problems.

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    Default Re: Giving Away Jackson

    Here's hoping Artest vouches and convinces Kings management to take Jackson and maybe we could package him in a trade that sends us Kevin Martin or Garcia in return. But of course, why would the Kings want to reunite the main culprits of one of the most disgusting sports incident in history? I really like that Martin kid though. And we need a shooter.

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