View Poll Results: Who will the be the first to knock off the Colts?

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  • Redskins

    4 5.88%
  • @ Broncos

    13 19.12%
  • @ Patriots

    18 26.47%
  • Bills

    1 1.47%
  • @ Cowboys

    5 7.35%
  • none of the above; We're going 10-0

    27 39.71%
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Thread: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

  1. #126
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just View Post
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    I don't really care about the QB debate, but the fact that you think Simmons is good at getting past his homerism strikes me as odd. I've never, ever, thought so. He's almost blatantly homerific.
    I guess..but he still makes some very valid points in favor of Brady.

    Just about every NE receiver that's left the Pats has fallen off the face of the earth. Givens, Branch, etc..all are playing pretty bad on their new teams.

  2. #127

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    The stats comparison is a bit lame unless you take into account what the QB does in the regular season and how his performance changes under pressure.

    All playoff games are against good opponents, so I's expect the QB ratings, completion percentages, yards, etc. to drop in postseason.

    I'd be absolutely stunned if Brady's numbers drop as much as Mannings in the playoffs.

    Manning is statistically a better regular season quarterback. If the regular season is what floats your boat, then I guess you'd rather have him over Brady.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  3. #128
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    I guess..but he still makes some very valid points in favor of Brady.
    YOU GUESS!?

    The headline of the freaking article is, "I really hate the Colts," and you guess he's a homer?

    Wow, just wow.

  4. #129
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    The stats comparison is a bit lame unless you take into account what the QB does in the regular season and how his performance changes under pressure.

    All playoff games are against good opponents, so I's expect the QB ratings, completion percentages, yards, etc. to drop in postseason.

    I'd be absolutely stunned if Brady's numbers drop as much as Mannings in the playoffs.

    Manning is statistically a better regular season quarterback. If the regular season is what floats your boat, then I guess you'd rather have him over Brady.
    You want to compare regular seasons stats too?

    Brady
    1712-2780 = 61.6%
    19633yds
    11.47 ypc
    137 TD 70 INT= 1.96 TD:INT ratio
    88.8 Rating
    87 games played

    PER GAME
    19.68-31.94
    225.66yds
    1.57 TD
    .80 INT
    39.71:1 pass att:INT

    Manning
    2932-4578 = 64%
    35154yds
    11.99ypc
    259 TD 132 INT= 1.96 TD:INT ratio
    94.3 Rating
    135 games played

    PER GAME
    21.72-33.91
    260.40yds
    1.91 TD
    .98 INT
    34.68:1 pass att:INT

    So after comparing regular season stats, and playoff stats, Brady is the great QB of all time and Peyton doesn't mount to much.

    If someone will find the number of playoff games both have been in, I'll break them down too.

  5. #130
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    YOU GUESS!?

    The headline of the freaking article is, "I really hate the Colts," and you guess he's a homer?

    Wow, just wow.
    And half the people debating me here hating the Patriots isn't the same exact thing?

    Give me a freaking break.

    You still haven't given me a single reason I'd rather have Peyton over Brady in a playoff game. Not a single one...and that's because there is no reason. Brady is a better playoff QB then Manning PERIOD. Brady performs in crunch time whereas Manning doesn't. And until he does, I wont back down on my argument that Brady is a better QB then Manning...because the playoffs are where it counts. Manning has had a juggernaut of an offense to work with for the past 3-4 years. Having a hall of fame WR and another young stud WR as well as a very good RB in Edgerrin James..there is no excuse to not be able to come up with some offense in crunch time when you have those kind of weapons at your disposal. Not to mention, the Colts defense last year was stacked in terms of pass rushing and did a very good job all around.

  6. #131

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So after comparing regular season stats, and playoff stats, Brady is the great QB of all time and Peyton doesn't mount to much.

    If someone will find the number of playoff games both have been in, I'll break them down too.
    You don't seem to get at what I'm saying, at all.

    I'm talking about THE DIFFERENCE IN HOW EACH PERFORMS IN THE POSTSEASON AS COMPARED TO HOW THEY EACH PERFORM IN THE REGULAR SEASON.

    Your stats show that statistically Peyton Manning is much superior to Tom Brady in the regular season and that they are nearly equal statistically in the postseason (except turnovers).

    That's what I expected to be the case. That's exactly what I was getting at-- there is a bigger dropoff in performance for Manning in the postseason

    Manning plays in a higher risk/more wide open system where he can be the gunslinger and outscore the oppositon. But... in the postseason he doesn't do that.

    Brady is in a more conservative, clock-killing, long drive control-the-ball system. He excels in the regular season and maintains that (and then some) in the postseason.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  7. #132
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    And half the people debating me here hating the Patriots isn't the same exact thing?

    Give me a freaking break.



    No, it's not the same thing. Simmons is the sports world's most widely recognized Pats homer. Telling us that we ought to go read his (trashy) article was pretty silly. It'd be as silly as us telling you to go read some obviously biased article from the Colts equivalent of Simmons (megahomer sportswriter).


  8. #133
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    And half the people debating me here hating the Patriots isn't the same exact thing?

    Give me a freaking break.
    No, it's not the same thing. How many on here are journalists that are being cited as evidence?

    I doubt half hate the Patriots, I know I don't. I don't even dislike Tom Brady. I actually think he's the league's second best QB.

    But to use something that is completely one-sided, admits it's one-sided, is called out for being one-sided and when it's called out you offer an "I guess" answer.

    It's not you guess when the freaking title says so. A break is only the start........

  9. #134
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    You don't seem to get at what I'm saying, at all.

    I'm talking about THE DIFFERENCE IN HOW EACH PERFORMS IN THE POSTSEASON AS COMPARED TO HOW THEY EACH PERFORM IN THE REGULAR SEASON.

    Your stats show that statistically Peyton Manning is much superior to Tom Brady in the regular season and that they are nearly equal statistically in the postseason (except turnovers).

    That's what I expected to be the case. That's exactly what I was getting at-- there is a bigger dropoff in performance for Manning in the postseason

    Manning plays in a higher risk/more wide open system where he can be the gunslinger and outscore the oppositon. But... in the postseason he doesn't do that.

    Brady is in a more conservative, clock-killing, long drive control-the-ball system. He excels in the regular season and maintains that (and then some) in the postseason.

    Obviously you missed the part about me asking someone to find the number of playoff games for each player, so I could break down the postseason stats the same way.



    You can't tell playoff production, because they're overall numbers. If Brady/Manning played in 3 or 3 more games than the other, the stats can't be compared. Until they're broken down by a per game basis you're conclusion of what they say are VERY flawed.

  10. #135
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No, it's not the same thing. How many on here are journalists that are being cited as evidence?

    I doubt half hate the Patriots, I know I don't. I don't even dislike Tom Brady. I actually think he's the league's second best QB.

    But to use something that is completely one-sided, admits it's one-sided, is called out for being one-sided and when it's called out you offer an "I guess" answer.

    It's not you guess when the freaking title says so. A break is only the start........
    Well, my mistake then.

    So how about we get back on topic and you give me the answer I've been looking for...Do I need to ask it 50 more times only to have you ignore it?

    Would you honestly want Peyton as your starting QB over Brady in the playoffs? This will end the entire discussion so stop avoiding it.

  11. #136
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    That isn't even close to the "logic" we're giving you. Peyton Manning would have won the same amount of SB's if he was switched positions with Tom Brady. That's the only thing that needs to be asked. Would the Patriots still have those rings if they were switched? Yes, they would, and the Colts would still be without.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Well, my mistake then.

    So how about we get back on topic and you give me the answer I've been looking for...Do I need to ask it 50 more times only to have you ignore it?

    Would you honestly want Peyton as your starting QB over Brady in the playoffs? This will end the entire discussion so stop avoiding it.
    I would take the bigger offensive threat any day of the week, and Peyton is the bigger offensive threat.

    Too bad football is the most team oriented professional game.

  12. #137

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    I wasn't asking to compare their stats in the postseason, or to compare their stats during the regular season.

    I was asking how the stats for each of them CHANGE postseason vs. regular season.

    Manning in the postseason << Manning in the regular season.
    Brady in the postseason > or = Brady in the regular season.

    Basketball analogy...

    Let's say I'm a 95% free throw shooter and you are an 85% free throw shooter in the regular season for our long NBA careers.

    We both play a lot of playoff games. I kind of feel the pressure in the playoffs and only make 70% of my free throws year after year. You thrive under pressure and make 90% of your playoff free throws.

    Which of us should take the pressure free throw? Stats say I'm better for my career, since we play lots of regular season games. I say you should. Performance when it really matters is important.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  13. #138
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    In order to see the change, they need to be in a per game basis......

    You can't compare yard total when one is for 135 games and the other is for, maybe, 10 games tops......

    It doesn't make any sense.

    The only thing that can be compared without breaking it down by game is the completion percentage, which I've already said.

  14. #139
    I consume tiny briefs Robobtowncolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    While I wouldn't imagine myself saying this a couple years ago, I guess getting out of Indy has been good for me.

    But......

    Does it really matter? At the end of the day, no one's "right". You all have to pay your bills. And Kayne West hates George Bush.

    Just sit back and appreciate the fact that you're going to be watching two of the best players who will ever pass through the NFL. They've both played under radically different circumstances during their careers, but they've both shown that they are players that 20 years from now you'll be privileged to have seen play on the same field so many times.

    Enjoy the game. Have some friends over. Marvel at both of them making a mockery of millions of dollars worth of scouting, coaching, and opposing defenders. It should be a fun ride.

    I'm going to a local Patriots watering hole and watching the game with hardcore Pats fans. Should be a good time, as long as they don't run out of beer.
    Narf!

  15. #140
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Sounds like a beginning to RoboBeantownPat.

  16. #141
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    Career playoff stats:

    Peyton Manning Postseason Stats:

    # 322 passes attempted
    # 193 passes completed
    # 2,461 passing yards
    # 15 passing touchdowns
    # 8 passes intercepted

    Tom Brady Postseason Stats:

    # 367 passes attempted
    # 225 passes completed
    # 2493 passing yards
    # 15 passing touchdowns
    # 5 passes intercepted

    That Peyton Manning, a regular dud in the playoffs. That Tom Brady, a regular god in the playoffs ..... right?
    Find me the stats for AFC Champ. games and super bowls - then u'll be stifled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Come on now PF46, don't bring actual facts into the argument.

    EDIT: Breaking down the stats a little bit further, Peyton completes 59.93% of his passes for 12.75 yards/completion. TB completes 61.03% for 11.08ypc.
    Breaking them down even further Brady has 3 Super Bowl rings and 2 SB MVP trophies. Man it's close.
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  17. #142
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    Breaking them down even further Brady has 3 Super Bowl rings, 2 SB MVP trophies and had Adam Vinatieri.
    Fixed.

    And if you're not sure what I'm implying I'm not all together sure Brady would have all his Super Bowl rings if it wasn't for the guy who was there kicker. In fact I'll go as far as to say if Vanderjagt had been New England's kicker they might only have one ring, if any.

  18. #143
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Brady still had to lead the team down the field into FG range.
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  19. #144
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    Brady still had to lead the team down the field into FG range.
    Yes, but when Adam V. is your kicker you only have to get to the 35. When Mike V. is your kicker you have to get to the 25 and pray like heck that he doesn't choke.

  20. #145
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    That's not Tom's fault.
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  21. #146

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    That's not Tom's fault.
    Exactly my point. It's not Peytons fault that the defense and special teams sucked in the past.

    Yet, HE'S been stuck with the label of "choker" despite his good performance.s It's so stupid. Yes, he had a couple bad games in the playoffs, but besides that he's played like the Peyton we know. Of those 8 career playoff INT's, I think 6 of them came in two games.

    This is the main point, and it answers Moses question. With the rest of the team being equal, and the only changing part is whether Peyton, or Brady is the QB, I'll take Peyton EVERY single time. No questions asked.

    Brady is labeled the playoff "god" because his teammates have done their jobs around him, Peyton hasn't been that lucky from Vandychoking on kicks, and the defense playing el matador with the opposing teams offense. That's all.

  22. #147

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    I read somewhere that in 11 career games against the Patriots Peyton has thrown 13 interceptions.

    He deserves none of the blame for that? Vanderjerk caused him to throw those picks?

    Manning is a great quarterback and performs at an almost unmatched historical level 95% of the time. An awful lot of Patriots games are in those other 5%.

    These are two great QBs, that's not debatable. I expect that 100% of Colts fans prefer their guy, and 100% of Pats fans prefer their guy. The national media are also divided, but it's not 50-50. I hear a lot more support for Brady being better.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  23. #148
    Raw Talent Robertmto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    Exactly my point. It's not Peytons fault that the defense and special teams sucked in the past.

    Yet, HE'S been stuck with the label of "choker" despite his good performance.s It's so stupid. Yes, he had a couple bad games in the playoffs, but besides that he's played like the Peyton we know. Of those 8 career playoff INT's, I think 6 of them came in two games.

    This is the main point, and it answers Moses question. With the rest of the team being equal, and the only changing part is whether Peyton, or Brady is the QB, I'll take Peyton EVERY single time. No questions asked.

    Brady is labeled the playoff "god" because his teammates have done their jobs around him, Peyton hasn't been that lucky from Vandychoking on kicks, and the defense playing el matador with the opposing teams offense. That's all.
    No. He's labeled a choker because he can't command the games and not leave it up to a FG attempt like he does basically every regular season game.
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  24. #149

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    No. He's labeled a choker because he can't command the games and not leave it up to a FG attempt like he does basically every regular season game.


    I don't even know why I talk to you. I should know better, I've seen the crazy stuff that comes off your keyboard. lol

  25. #150
    Raw Talent Robertmto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    I don't even know why I talk to you. I should know better, I've seen the crazy stuff that comes off your keyboard. lol
    You're acting like its not true.
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