View Poll Results: Who will the be the first to knock off the Colts?

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  • Redskins

    4 5.88%
  • @ Broncos

    13 19.12%
  • @ Patriots

    18 26.47%
  • Bills

    1 1.47%
  • @ Cowboys

    5 7.35%
  • none of the above; We're going 10-0

    27 39.71%
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Thread: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

  1. #101
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    Once again you made it sound like we were unable to do anything because of Peyton's contract, I was proving otherwise. We could only give money to Reggie because we chose to, almost a full month before Edge signed with the Cards...
    Are you trying to tell me that you could have signed both Edge and Reggie? It was either 1 or the other because Edge didn't want to be franchised yet again. You didn't have the money to sign both to extensions because the money was tied up...it was either one or the other. Peyton Manning hasn't the second biggest QB contract in football..just a little bit behind Mike Vick. He's a great player and deserves it..but when you have that much money tied up into just 1 player, it makes it hard to string together a bunch of solid defensive aquisitions to make a good defense. Simon and McFarland are starts..but you are going to need a ton of signings of decent defensive Vets. I don't even think Simon will ever be playing football again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac
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    I don't understand how anyone can rank Aikman ahead of Peyton. Brady > Marino???
    Easily. Count the rings. If you are trying to argue who the best statistical QBs are of all time, then Marino and Manning should be at the top of the list...but you also have to remember, no other QB inside the 5 yard line has even as close to as many pass attempts that both Manning and Marino had in their huge TD seasons.

  2. #102
    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Fran Tarkenton should be in there somewhere, probably 10-15 along with maybe Roger Staubach, Don Meredith, Dan Fouts, Len Dawson, and a couple others. I'll let you put Y.A. Tittle in the second 10.
    If you know who I'm talking about and didn't include any of these guys, so be it, but you guys that don't know what I'm talking about shouldn't be making lists.

    Jeez, the problem with making a list like this is its always easier to remember guys from a few years back and some of us aren't old enough to remember the older guys.
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Rings decide who was the better player?

    I guess John Salley needs to be in the top 10 list of NBA players.......

    Rings help, but they don't dictate. There's 22 starters on a freaking football team, and that doesn't even count special teams.

  4. #104
    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Oops. Bob Griese
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

  5. #105
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Rings decide who was the better player?

    I guess John Salley needs to be in the top 10 list of NBA players.......

    Rings help, but they don't dictate. There's 22 starters on a freaking football team, and that doesn't even count special teams.
    Wasn't my point. The QBs on that list earned their rings. They were the reasons their team got the rings. Rings do decide who the better players are..because the best players play well when it matters. Some mediocre QBs who got rings weren't the reason their team won a superbowl..but all the guys I listed were the main reason their team won it. This is going to turn into another Rings vs Stats war that will never end.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Tom Brady wasn't the reason they won.

    Their defense/offensive line that allowed them to run was the reason they won.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Tom Brady wasn't the reason they won.

    Their defense/offensive line that allowed them to run was the reason they won.

    People seem to forget that
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  8. #108
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Tom Brady wasn't the reason they won.

    Their defense/offensive line that allowed them to run was the reason they won.
    Won in which year? In 2003 when they won the superbowl with Antoine Smith? You've got to be kidding me. That guy is one of the most mediocre RBs of all time.

    By your logic, Every hall of fame QB that ever won a superbowl won it off of defense and a superior O-Line..because you can't make it to the SB without either of them.

    I could turn this right back around onto the Colts if I really wanted to. Peyton Manning is nothing without pro-bowl WRs around him and a superior offensive line. Not a true statement, but that's the same bs logic you guys are giving me.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Its always about the offensive and defensive lines.

    Without them, the QBs and other skilled players never even have a chance to make plays.

    Since86 didn't mention RBs in his post. Having a great offensive line makes the RBs look good too. Willie Parker isn't very good, either, but he's now got the longest touchdown rush in SB history. Because Alan Faneca gave a great pull and Jeff Hartings and Hines Ward delivered great downfield blocks.

    But its Willie Parker's name that goes in the record book, not the blockers who made the whole thing possible.
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  10. #110
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Colts fans of all should know just how good Brady is when crunch time rolls around. Did you not watch him carve up the Vikings? Now that the passing game is clicking, the Patriots are a damn near unstoppable team. Just imagine if they actually had a game-breaking receiver like Randy Moss or Steve Smith.
    Patriots are a great team but they are not near unstoppable there are a handful of teams that can beat them: Colts, DENVER, Bears (maybe). There is no disputing the patriots have the best coach/ing the game probably has ever saw.

    They don't need a Randy Moss or Steve Smith, actually that is probably the last thing they want. All they need is Tom Brady, a good defense and a nice O line. Brady throws so damn perfect he doesn't need those attentioning grabbing recievers, if anything it would hinder their team more then help. Anyone that can catch is going to be a good reciever, did you see their second round pick Chad Jackson (rookie)? Brady throw it so perfect to him everytime he looked like Smith or Moss. This is why they didn't care to let Branch go, Brady made Branch and Brady will make Jackson and when he (jackson) gets that attention he will move on to another team. Marv. Harrison is the only top 5 reciever that would fit in because he doesn't demand the ball but TO, Moss, Smith, Chad Johnson wouldn't do anything for that team expect be a distraction. I LOVE how the patriots play, they have such an old school, blue collar, well coached TEAM (not just 2-3 superstars). Now I hope the Colts kick their *** but I'm not going to hate on the way they play the game.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Are you trying to tell me that you could have signed both Edge and Reggie? It was either 1 or the other because Edge didn't want to be franchised yet again. You didn't have the money to sign both to extensions because the money was tied up...it was either one or the other. Peyton Manning hasn't the second biggest QB contract in football..just a little bit behind Mike Vick. He's a great player and deserves it..but when you have that much money tied up into just 1 player, it makes it hard to string together a bunch of solid defensive aquisitions to make a good defense. Simon and McFarland are starts..but you are going to need a ton of signings of decent defensive Vets. I don't even think Simon will ever be playing football again.
    I have to agree with you (in a way). It is bull**** on how much money the Colts spend on the Offense. Give Peyton what ever he wants and keep marvin but beyond them, there isn't much more talent needed on the offense. Peyton just like Brady can make almost anyone who can catch look like a star, they didn't need to sign Wayne to that huge contract, thank goodness they didn't re-sign Edge, we don't need them. Wayne's contract was kind of stupid, we could of really got some good defenders.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Since86 didn't mention RBs in his post. Having a great offensive line makes the RBs look good too..
    All you need to write to prove this point is: Denver Broncos. The bronco's line can make any decent running back look like a stud, they've even said it themselves lol. The zone block is awesome in denver. I love how the broncos make their running backs look awesome then trade them for defense studs like Champ Bailey. Portis for Bailey what a good deal, that is worth learning how to zone block all in its self.lol

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Are you trying to tell me that you could have signed both Edge and Reggie? It was either 1 or the other because Edge didn't want to be franchised yet again. You didn't have the money to sign both to extensions because the money was tied up...it was either one or the other. Peyton Manning hasn't the second biggest QB contract in football..just a little bit behind Mike Vick. He's a great player and deserves it..but when you have that much money tied up into just 1 player, it makes it hard to string together a bunch of solid defensive aquisitions to make a good defense. Simon and McFarland are starts..but you are going to need a ton of signings of decent defensive Vets. I don't even think Simon will ever be playing football again.
    When did I say that?

    I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure we could have sgned both but that would have been it. Like I said before, we resigned Wayne and platoon of other free agents to good money, which included Brackett, June, and Mathis. We have also gone out and paid pretty good money to two DTs, as well as making Adam, one of if not the highest paid kicker. Again I fail to see how we're in any worse situation than most teams.

    I just find it funny that a Pats fan of all people says we have to resign our own players as well as sign a ton of free agents to succeed...
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  14. #114
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Won in which year? In 2003 when they won the superbowl with Antoine Smith? You've got to be kidding me. That guy is one of the most mediocre RBs of all time.
    Like Jay said, I NEVER mentioned RB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    By your logic, Every hall of fame QB that ever won a superbowl won it off of defense and a superior O-Line..because you can't make it to the SB without either of them.
    By my logic? Talk about jumping to conclusions. I said the PATRIOTS won because of it, not every team.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    I could turn this right back around onto the Colts if I really wanted to. Peyton Manning is nothing without pro-bowl WRs around him and a superior offensive line. Not a true statement, but that's the same bs logic you guys are giving me.
    That isn't even close to the "logic" we're giving you. Peyton Manning would have won the same amount of SB's if he was switched positions with Tom Brady. That's the only thing that needs to be asked. Would the Patriots still have those rings if they were switched? Yes, they would, and the Colts would still be without.

    I think it's funny that you think Tom Brady makes the Patriots, but don't think Peyton makes his pro-bowl WR's. Look at Brandon Stokely's production the past few years if you want to see a difference.

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm now convinced you know absolutely nothing about football.
    wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac@Section216 View Post
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    Took you awhile. I figured it out when he said the Colts would have a tough time against elite running teams, and listed the Titans.
    you won by 1 point, you gave up 214 rushing yards and i never called them elite. sorry.

    And apparently being clutch and winning dont mean alot on thsi board as fas ar greatest QB's of all time go.
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  16. #116
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    And apparently being clutch and winning dont mean alot on thsi board as fas ar greatest QB's of all time go.
    Did you see everyone's top-ten?

    Surely you aren't this clueless, are you? Its a hell of a compliment for people to have Brady in the top-ten, and that *is* because he's a winner. Even Moses backed down from his top-five comment when he put some serious thought into who the top-five QBs in history really are.
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  17. #117
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    I don;t think he is top 5 now. But I do believe he will be the greatest ever when he is done.

    And basically everyone here said Peyton is better than Barday - that is what I meant by that last comment.
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    That isn't even close to the "logic" we're giving you. Peyton Manning would have won the same amount of SB's if he was switched positions with Tom Brady. That's the only thing that needs to be asked. Would the Patriots still have those rings if they were switched? Yes, they would, and the Colts would still be without.

    I think it's funny that you think Tom Brady makes the Patriots, but don't think Peyton makes his pro-bowl WR's. Look at Brandon Stokely's production the past few years if you want to see a difference.
    You can't say Manning would have won in the playoffs. We've seen how he performs in the playoffs.

    And Tom Brady is a large part of why the Patriots win games. I would love to see Manning's stats if he lost Wayne and Harrison. He'd still be a great QB, but if you gave him guys like Doug Gabriel and Troy Brown, would he be able to produce on a consistent basis? Tom Brady makes the NE offense work. I don't know of many players who can make nearly every random WR/TE on their team look as good as Brady does. Any QB that can turn Reche Caldwell into a threat is a pretty damn good QB.

    And Peyton boosts the stats of Harrison and Wayne a little bit, but those guys would still be complete studs on any other team. Stokely is also a pretty good WR when he isn't injured..so you can't really use him as an argument. I want to see some WR who is a complete scrub thrive while Peyton is on the field..IE Caldwell...but we'll never see that because the Colts spend alot of money keeping very good offensive players on the field. Peyton's had the luxury of having great wide-outs to throw to his entire NFL career.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Wasn't my point. The QBs on that list earned their rings. They were the reasons their team got the rings. Rings do decide who the better players are..because the best players play well when it matters. Some mediocre QBs who got rings weren't the reason their team won a superbowl..but all the guys I listed were the main reason their team won it. This is going to turn into another Rings vs Stats war that will never end.

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  20. #120

    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    You can't say Manning would have won in the playoffs. We've seen how he performs in the playoffs.
    Career playoff stats:

    Peyton Manning Postseason Stats:

    # 322 passes attempted
    # 193 passes completed
    # 2,461 passing yards
    # 15 passing touchdowns
    # 8 passes intercepted

    Tom Brady Postseason Stats:

    # 367 passes attempted
    # 225 passes completed
    # 2493 passing yards
    # 15 passing touchdowns
    # 5 passes intercepted

    That Peyton Manning, a regular dud in the playoffs. That Tom Brady, a regular god in the playoffs ..... right?

  21. #121
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Come on now PF46, don't bring actual facts into the argument.

    EDIT: Breaking down the stats a little bit further, Peyton completes 59.93% of his passes for 12.75 yards/completion. TB completes 61.03% for 11.08ypc.

  22. #122
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    Career playoff stats:

    Peyton Manning Postseason Stats:

    # 322 passes attempted
    # 193 passes completed
    # 2,461 passing yards
    # 15 passing touchdowns
    # 8 passes intercepted

    Tom Brady Postseason Stats:

    # 367 passes attempted
    # 225 passes completed
    # 2493 passing yards
    # 15 passing touchdowns
    # 5 passes intercepted

    That Peyton Manning, a regular dud in the playoffs. That Tom Brady, a regular god in the playoffs ..... right?
    Wow, I didn't realize all those first round wins against Denver and the likes padded his stats that much!

    Man!!

    Not let's see him advance past the AFC Championship game.

    You can't honestly tell me you'd rather have Manning over Brady in a big game. It's illogical. You should go read Simmon's latest article on ESPN.

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Er, referencing Simmons in a Brady/Manning debate?

    And didn't Brady himself just lose to Denver last year? Maybe he didn't. Honestly I'm kinda vague on who they lost to. But if it was Denver, then it seems kinda odd to pass our Denver wins off as stat-padding fodder... but whatever, truthfully, I don't care. Continue onward.


  24. #124
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just View Post
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    Er, referencing Simmons in a Brady/Manning debate?

    And didn't Brady himself just lose to Denver last year? Maybe he didn't. Honestly I'm kinda vague on who they lost to. But if it was Denver, then it seems kinda odd to pass our Denver wins off as stat-padding fodder... but whatever, truthfully, I don't care. Continue onward.
    Brady has always had a tough time against Denver. Hard to beat Champ Bailey without pro-bowl WRs. Thats the only team the Pats have lost to this year as well...but at the time of that game, Brady's chemistry with his WR's was terrible and he could only throw consistently to his TEs.

    I referenced Simmons because he is good at looking at things from a LOGICAL standpoint. He tries to get past the homerism to see why people would really think Manning is a better playoff QB then Brady.

    My whole point is this, find me the stats of Brady and Manning when the game is on the line. The Crunch-Time Stats. I'm sure those would tell a COMPLETELY different story.

  25. #125
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Brady has always had a tough time against Denver. Hard to beat Champ Bailey without pro-bowl WRs. Thats the only team the Pats have lost to this year as well.

    I referenced Simmons because he is good at looking at things from a LOGICAL standpoint. He tries to get past the homerism to see why people would really think Manning is a better playoff QB then Brady.

    My whole point is this, find me the stats of Brady and Manning when the game is on the line. The Crunch-Time Stats. I'm sure those would tell a COMPLETELY different story.
    I don't really care about the QB debate, but the fact that you think Simmons is good at getting past his homerism strikes me as odd. I've never, ever, thought so. He's almost blatantly homerific.


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