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Who will give the Colts their first loss?

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  • #46
    Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    The Colts have won like 27 straight meaningful regualar season games, I doubt we lose a game till we have homefield locked up. And if any team is going to do it before then it would be Jacksonville.

    So I say 10-0 just because out of those 5, the Broncos and pats scare me. But I mean I think our Pass D is good enough to stop brady enough. And the Broncos well we own the broncos.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

      Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
      I didn't say Urlacher isn't a good linebacker. I said he's not the best linebacker in football and I said (after amendments) that he'd be the third-best linebacker in the AFC North.

      He's good, but when Jerome Bettis can drag you five-plus yards into the end zone you're not "that" good.

      As for QBs, thanks for falling right into my trap. I figured it would be the Indy fans that would get here hook-line-and-sinker, not you guys.

      Passer ratings (ranked by AFC):

      2004

      1. Manning 121.1
      2. Brees 104.8
      3. Ben 98.6
      5. Brady 92.6
      11. Palmer 77.3

      2005

      1. Manning 104.1
      2. Palmer 101.1
      3. Ben 98.6
      6. Brady 92.3

      Yes, the SuperBowl and the first three games of this year, Ben didn't play well. You get the "what have you done for me lately" award for today.

      I can understand the argument that Brady is better than Manning, because Brady "wins the big games." In fact, I agree with that arguement.

      But if that's the case, the only team Pittsburgh doesn't beat in big games is New England. The Colts lose to both Pittsburgh and NE in big games. Cincinatti doesn't have enough big game experience. So if you're going to argue that Brady is better than Manning, then why isn't Ben at least in competition? He's 1-0 against Manning in the playoffs, his passer rating is better than Brady's, and like Brady, he's a winner. Its not Ben's job to pass the ball more than 20 times per game. He plays for Pittsburgh, remember? His team wants to run the ball as often as possible, and its Ben's job to to keep the defense "honest."

      Put Manning in Pittsburgh and tell him its his job to hand the ball off significanlty more than he passes it (for a team that doesn't spend much money on its receivers because it spends that money on linebackers)... how would that go over? Exactly? Just because Ben is a "system" quarterback in Pittsburgh doesn't make him any less of a QB.

      As for Palmer, he and Brady are the only quarterbacks that always give Pittsburgh real problems. Our pass defense bothers every quarterback in the league but them. That has to account for something.

      Jay's QB ratings would be:

      1. Palmer - can do it all and will win big in the playoffs sometime soon (if he'd been healthy, we'd be talking about the Super Bowl champion Bengals this season)
      2. Brady - has done it all and is still the favorite to win big in the playoffs
      3. Ben - has done it all as a system quarterback - still has question marks if he's not paired with a dominant running game (but also doesn't have ego/ expectations that gets in the way of a dominant running game)
      4. Manning - great regular season stats, doesn't win playoff games

      (PS, do you think I like admitting a Bengals' guy is the best QB? It hurts. Badly. My Dad and Brother are really enjoying this.)
      All in all I thought we were talking about who's the best of the QB's altogether. Not just the playoffs, but playoffs and the season.

      So if you put up Ben's stats and compare them to Peyton, Brady and Palmer, they're not as good, but still damn good. Ben's a hell of a QB, but so far he's not on the level the others are.

      Another thing, you're saying that Peyton wouldn't play in the system? If he was told he needed to run more than pass, he'd throw a fit? Come on, Jay. Peyton just wants to win, too. That's ridiculous, man.

      I also love how it's like the Colts have never won a playoff game with Peyton as QB, I can agree we've had plenty of playoff screw ups, but damn Peyton had one of his best games in the playoffs. Oh wait, it's Denver, and it's at home, I guess it doesn't count, eh?
      Super Bowl XLI Champions
      2000 Eastern Conference Champions




      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

        You are, kidding me, you are holding Peytons stats in the playoffs against him yet you have Palmer first. The dude never even finished a playoff game.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

          Originally posted by Destined4Greatness View Post
          You are, kidding me, you are holding Peytons stats in the playoffs against him yet you have Palmer first. The dude never even finished a playoff game.
          Yeah, I agree.
          Super Bowl XLI Champions
          2000 Eastern Conference Champions




          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

            Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post
            All in all I thought we were talking about who's the best of the QB's altogether. Not just the playoffs, but playoffs and the season.

            So if you put up Ben's stats and compare them to Peyton, Brady and Palmer, they're not as good, but still damn good. Ben's a hell of a QB, but so far he's not on the level the others are.
            His stats are better than Brady's, and he's got a SuperBowl ring (yes, Brady has more rings, that's not the point.)

            I know you all are still laughing at me but you're not really taking the time to think here.

            If you include Brady because he's a winner, Ben's just as much a winner with better stats.

            Another thing, you're saying that Peyton wouldn't play in the system? If he was told he needed to run more than pass, he'd throw a fit? Come on, Jay. Peyton just wants to win, too. That's ridiculous, man.
            Does Manning want to win, or does he want to be the best QB ever. I think he's like Marino - more interested in being the best QB ever although winning is also important to him because he wants to have all of Marino's stats plus a championship (otherwise, he's just Marino version 2.0.)

            I also love how it's like the Colts have never won a playoff game with Peyton as QB, I can agree we've had plenty of playoff screw ups, but damn Peyton had one of his best games in the playoffs. Oh wait, it's Denver, and it's at home, I guess it doesn't count, eh?
            Denver is easy to beat in the playoffs. NE and Pittsburgh are not. If NE were healthy last year, the AFC Title game would've been played in NE, they would've beaten Pittsburgh, and would've extended their dynasty.

            Originally posted by D4G
            You are, kidding me, you are holding Peytons stats in the playoffs against him yet you have Palmer first. The dude never even finished a playoff game.
            No, I explained in the previous post why I've got him #1.

            As for Palmer, he and Brady are the only quarterbacks that always give Pittsburgh real problems. Our pass defense bothers every quarterback in the league but them. That has to account for something.
            Pittsburgh can make Manning look average. Palmer still slices and dices through our defense? Why? Because he's better than Manning at reading the defense, even though he's not allowed to call his own plays. Only Brady plays as consistently well against Pittsburgh.

            Take away Ike Taylor's blown coverage on the first snap of the MNF game. Other than the short field after Pittsburgh botched the onside kick, they held the Colts to field goals and a last second touchdown last season. Manning, of course, forgot all about the running game, trying to beat the Steelers' defense with his arm. Bad idea.

            Originally posted by Wizards' fan
            Ben has had the best weapons out of all 3 QB's. Thats why he's not as good, he has the best crutches.

            His career he has had Hines Ward, Randle el, Bettis, Parker, his defense and his DC. And of course Cowher.
            Are you kidding me. There's no way I'm going to argue the Steelers' receivers are better than either Indy's or Cincy's. At RB, during the Big Ben era (while Jerome has been in decline) I'd give the edge to NE and also Edge.

            I agree about LeBeau and Cowher, though. They're geniouses.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

              Let me clear something up right now.

              Peyton Manning Postseason Stats:

              # 322 passes attempted
              # 193 passes completed
              # 2,461 passing yards
              # 15 passing touchdowns
              # 8 passes intercepted

              Tom Brady Postseason Stats:

              # 367 passes attempted
              # 225 passes completed
              # 2493 passing yards
              # 15 passing touchdowns
              # 5 passes intercepted

              Ben Roethlisberget Postseason Stats:

              # 147 passes attempted
              # 89 passes completed
              # 1210 passing yards (226.6 ypg)
              # 10 passing touchdowns
              # 8 passes intercepted

              =======

              This shows that obviously Brady isn't much better statistically in the playoffs than Peyton. Hardly any difference at all. That tells me the difference is obviously the rest of the team. Pretty good stats for a super "choker", compared to "Mr. Clutch".

              We won't even talk about Ben, he's OBVIOUSLY looking better because of the rest of his team.

              Regardless of the close stats, I know Brady is a better clutch player. His timing is impeccable.

              I just figured these stats would be surprising for some, the way they dog Peytons playoff performances, and swoon over Brady's.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
                Pittsburgh can make Manning look average. Palmer still slices and dices through our defense? Why? Because he's better than Manning at reading the defense, even though he's not allowed to call his own plays. Only Brady plays as consistently well against Pittsburgh.
                Are you kidding me? This is how you measure players? Like playing Pitt is the only thing that matters. Maybe Palmer just has Pitt's number, you act like flukes like that will never happen.

                I guess if this week Vick rushes for 200 yards, and throws for 2 TD's as well, suddenly he's the best QB in the NFL.

                Get real.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                  Wow, just wow.

                  Take away a few touchdowns, and Peyton looks average... Gee, who would've thought.

                  And the thing about Peyton not wanting to win.... :shakehead:

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                    Originally posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
                    Are you kidding me? This is how you measure players? Like playing Pitt is the only thing that matters. Maybe Palmer just has Pitt's number, you act like flukes like that will never happen.

                    I guess if this week Vick rushes for 200 yards, and throws for 2 TD's as well, suddenly he's the best QB in the NFL.

                    Get real.
                    Lighten up, Francis.

                    Palmer's numbers aren't significantly different than Mannings, and he can read a blitz much better than Manning can.

                    I'm sorry that you guys are seriously underestimating Palmer. He's the real deal, though. I'm willing to predict he wins a SuperBowl before Manning does (*if* Manning ever does).
                    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                    And life itself, rushing over me
                    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                      Originally posted by Just View Post
                      And the thing about Peyton not wanting to win.... :shakehead
                      I'm sure he wants to win... but the scouting report also says he wants to prove he can win with his arm.

                      Had he remembered to call a few running plays last January, things might have turned out differently. Instead, he played right into our strength because he was preoccupied with trying to prove that he could pick it apart like Palmer does.

                      If you're going to let him call the plays, and give him credit when he makes good play calls, then his bad decisions as an "offensive coordinator" are going to have to be held against him, too.
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                        Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
                        Are you kidding me. There's no way I'm going to argue the Steelers' receivers are better than either Indy's or Cincy's. At RB, during the Big Ben era (while Jerome has been in decline) I'd give the edge to NE and also Edge.

                        I agree about LeBeau and Cowher, though. They're geniouses.
                        Brady and Manning made their receivers (with the exception of Harrison).

                        Big Ben did not. Look at him without Randle el and Bettis. Not that great at all. He was falling back on his run game, his defense, and Randle el's ability to be able to turn any touch into a TD.
                        STARBURY

                        08 and Beyond

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                          Originally posted by Robertmto View Post
                          Brady and Manning made their receivers (with the exception of Harrison).

                          Big Ben did not. Look at him without Randle el and Bettis. Not that great at all. He was falling back on his run game, his defense, and Randle el's ability to be able to turn any touch into a TD.
                          I don't even know what that means.

                          But are you seriously trying to look at Ben's first three games after a motorcycle accident and appendectomy and reach broad conclusions about his ability?

                          That's silly. And if that's your approach, then the KC game was more recent and Ben had a perfect QB rating in that game with guys like Nate Washington (undrafted), Cedrick Wilson (cast off by SF), Willie Parker (undrafted), Hines Ward (a steal from the fourth round), and a rookie that had been struggling (Holmes) catching his passes.
                          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                          And life itself, rushing over me
                          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                            According to all the reports I heard Ben was 100% recovered from the accident so I don't wanna hear that as an excuse.

                            And are you really comparing 1 game to a SB and 4 other games of sucking?
                            STARBURY

                            08 and Beyond

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                              This message has been deleted by Moses. Reason: Nevermind..
                              Obviously I'm using some (a lot of) hyperbole here to make a point. "System" QBs - when used properly - can be just as important to a winning team (if not more) than "star" quarterbacks.

                              There may be a clear-cut "best passer in the NFL". But there's not a clear-cut "best QB."
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

                                Originally posted by Robertmto View Post
                                According to all the reports I heard Ben was 100% recovered from the accident so I don't wanna hear that as an excuse.

                                And are you really comparing 1 game to a SB and 4 other games of sucking?
                                "100% recovered" and "having a full training camp" are not the same thing.

                                Unfortunately for the Steelers, Ben's "training camp" began in Week #2 of the regular season. The fans were probably right to say that Batch should've started in Weeks #2 and #3. Ben may not have been injured anymore but he didn't look ready to play.

                                He did look awful. But that's not the real Ben R.

                                And no, I'm not relying on "one game" or even "one season". I posted three seasons of stats way up there at the top. Ben's been ranked #3 in the AFC for passer rating each of his first two seasons. He was awful his first three games, it will take a lot of work for him to rise from next-to-last in the ratings, but I think that when the season ends he'll be back into the top-five, statistically, in the AFC (in spite of that awful three-game slump).

                                I'd post more if Ben had played longer... but that's all there is to work with.
                                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                                And life itself, rushing over me
                                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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