View Poll Results: Who will the be the first to knock off the Colts?

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  • Redskins

    4 5.88%
  • @ Broncos

    13 19.12%
  • @ Patriots

    18 26.47%
  • Bills

    1 1.47%
  • @ Cowboys

    5 7.35%
  • none of the above; We're going 10-0

    27 39.71%
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Thread: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The QB is the most important position in football,
    Many football experts agree, but just as many disagree.

    I'd say a LT, RB (or "pulling" LG) and DT/NT and perhaps a SS or strong-side LB are more important, or at the very least, as important, as the QB.

    Without pass protection and a running game, its easy to defend against a team with "skilled" players in the passing game.

    The Jeff George trade is the perfect example - what did the Colts give up? Chris Hinton and Andre Rison. Jeff may have had a rocket arm but the Colts were a better team with Trudeau handing the ball to Dickerson, being protected by Hinton, and passing to Rison.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #77
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Many football experts agree, but just as many disagree.

    I'd say a LT, RB (or "pulling" LG) and DT/NT and perhaps a SS or strong-side LB are more important, or at the very least, as important, as the QB.

    Without pass protection and a running game, its easy to defend against a team with "skilled" players in the passing game.

    The Jeff George trade is the perfect example - what did the Colts give up? Chris Hinton and Andre Rison. Jeff may have had a rocket arm but the Colts were a better team with Trudeau handing the ball to Dickerson, being protected by Hinton, and passing to Rison.
    There's no way just as many disagree.

    There's not one other single position that can cost you a game faster than having a lame duck QB.

    You can have the best offensive linemen in the world, and if you're QB can't make the right decision/throw, it's a waste.

    On the flip side, you can have the best QB in the world and if you don't have a very good line, then it's a waste. BUT a line is made up of more than one person. Their job is a unit, they pick each other up. You have a bad blocking center, he can be bailed out by a good Guard and vice versa.

    Everything revolves around you're QB. Don't have a good QB, you're run game is going to be hit hard because the D is going to stack the box.

    There's a reason why QBs, instead of backs and such become football analyists. It's just not a coincidence.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    There's a reason why QBs, instead of backs and such become football analyists. It's just not a coincidence.
    Sure there is. But the networks have a pro-QB bias, and the further you get from broadcasters and other arm-chair analysts, you'll realize that many of the league's "decsion makers" don't build their teams around "franchise quarterbacks".

    And the reason QBs make good broadcasters is not thier relative importance to the game. QBs must learn to read the defense to decide where to pass the ball.

    That makes them more articulate about seeing the overall playing field, an important attribute for an analyst.

    Same example for college:

    Indiana would have been much more successful had they made Antwaan Randle El a RB instead of a QB. Everybody on defense knew that he'd have the ball every single play - he was the only option and damn good one.

    By moving him to RB, there would have been two players for the defense to focus on, diverting their attention.

    I'm not saying QB is unimportant.

    But from a franchise/ salary cap position, there as many teams with post season success with an "average" QB that isn't commanding "star QB" salary than teams who build thier salary structure around a star QB.

    In the last decade, the Steelers have been in the AFC Title game with Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and Ben Roethlesberger playing QB, and been to the Super Bowl with O'Donnell and Ben playing QB. I would not be surprised if Ben leaves Pittsburgh as FA, just as Neil did right after SB XXX. But we were back in the AFC Title game two years later and four times in the next decade.

    The freakin' Ravens won a Super Bowl with who? Brad Johnson was TB's QB. Does anybody believe Delhomme was the best player on the Panthers? Trent Dilfer or Chris Chandler, anyone?

    There are just as many examples of "average" QBs with a different player as the team's best/ star player than of Brett Favre, John Elway, Kurt Warner, and Tom Brady. Marino, the best QB I've ever seen play, only made it to one SB. Elway wasn't even the best player on the Broncos when they finally won with him, Terrell Davis was.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  4. #79
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Whoa.....

    I NEVER said he had to be the best player. I said it was the most important position. Obviously, you can win with an average QB, but you can't win with a bad one.

    You can win with bad wideouts, running backs, TEs, and so on and so on. But if you have a bad QB, you're dead.

    He doesn't have to be the best player on the team.

    EDIT: The only team I've ever saw win with a bad QB, is the 2000 Ravens. It just happens they had probably the second best defense ever, outside of the '85 Bears. They're the exception to the rule.

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Fine. I still disagree that its the most important position.

    We agree that it needs to be manned by someone competent.

    Left Tackle needs someone more than "competent."

    Football games are won and lost in the trenches, not because of "skilled" players in the backfield.

    So yes, I've argued before that the LT, LG, C, RG, RT and TE are all more important than the QB, but that's an overstatement because the line - as you pointed out - functions as a team.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #81
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    ...only QB to ever, thats EVER lead his team on a game winning, last second drive in the Super Bowl....
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    ...only QB to ever, thats EVER lead his team on a game winning drive in the Super Bowl....
    Good for him. He must be better than John Elway and Joe Montana then, because they didn't even do that feat......

    Dan Marino must be a chump of a QB too, because he NEVER won a superbowl. Oh wait, he's consistantly in the conversation of who's the top 5 QB's of all time.

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    When Tom Brady's career is over he will be the greatest ever.
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    I'm now convinced you know absolutely nothing about football.

  10. #85
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    When Tom Brady's career is over he will be the greatest ever.
    Wow.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  11. #86
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    There's a reason why QBs, instead of backs and such become football analysts. It's just not a coincidence.
    Are you implying that only B's become football analysts?

    Let's see:

    Shannon Sharp
    Sterling Sharp
    Dion Sanders
    Michael Irving
    Tom Jackson
    Chris Collinsworth
    Brian Baldinger
    Randy Cross
    Chris Carter
    Jerome Bettis
    Howie Long
    Ronnie Lott
    Terrell Davis

    I could go on and on.

    And then there is Joe Montana. Personally, I think he was a better QB than Tom Brady is, but he S U C K E D as a TV analyst.

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm now convinced you know absolutely nothing about football.
    Took you awhile. I figured it out when he said the Colts would have a tough time against elite running teams, and listed the Titans.

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto View Post
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    When Tom Brady's career is over he will be the greatest ever.


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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by grace View Post
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    Are you implying that only B's become football analysts?

    Let's see:

    Shannon Sharp
    Sterling Sharp
    Dion Sanders
    Michael Irving
    Tom Jackson
    Chris Collinsworth
    Brian Baldinger
    Randy Cross
    Chris Carter
    Jerome Bettis
    Howie Long
    Ronnie Lott
    Terrell Davis

    I could go on and on.

    And then there is Joe Montana. Personally, I think he was a better QB than Tom Brady is, but he S U C K E D as a TV analyst.
    I was actually talking about in game tv analysts.

    But even out of that list you made, Bettis, Long, and Davis are the only ones that I'd even consider good.

    I'll let Deion, Shannon and Collingsworth do the talking for themselves.

  15. #90
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    I don't understand the lack of respect Brady gets on here.

    What Robertmo said may be a stretch, but to say as of now that Brady isn't a top 5 all-time QB is just plain stupid. Brady has good statistics and he has wins. People over-rate older players they never watched. The same thing is done in basketball. There is this mystique added to the really old players by older fans that make the younger players think that their guys don't even compare to them...which simply isn't true. If anything, the talent today is much better then it was a long time ago...making what Brady does even more impressive. Name me some other QBs who have won as many SBs at Brady..and name me some QBs who have had as many game winning drives as Brady. While you're at it, name me a QB who led his team to 21 straight wins (counting post-season). There are VERY VERY few.

    Colts fans of all should know just how good Brady is when crunch time rolls around. Did you not watch him carve up the Vikings? Now that the passing game is clicking, the Patriots are a damn near unstoppable team. Just imagine if they actually had a game-breaking receiver like Randy Moss or Steve Smith.

    To say that Brady wasn't a large part of the Patriots sucess is just plain stupid. He led that team to victory even when the defense was straight up ravaged by injuries. No team has dealt with more then the Patriots. He led them to a SB with no running game at all. How many more SB's must he win? How many more game-winning drives does he need to get done before he get's his respect?

    I don't feel like arguing about this though..because I know this will turn into a huge debate which I really don't feel like keeping up with.

    Back on topic, the Pats will give the Colts there first loss. Mark it down.

  16. #91
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    What Robertmo said may be a stretch, but to say as of now that Brady isn't a top 5 all-time QB is just plain stupid.
    I'll take Dan Marino, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, Len Dawson and Brett Star all in their primes over Brady.

  17. #92
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac@Section216 View Post
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    I'll take Dan Marino, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, John Elway, Johnny Unitas, Len Dawson and Brett Star all in their primes over Brady.
    Good for you.

    Either way, It's a difference of opinions. I think Brady will win 3-4 more superbowls while Manning only may win 1 his entire career. Kind of hard to get a team to go out and sign people when your QB has a monstrous contract that eats up more then 1/3 of your cap space.

  18. #93
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Kind of hard to get a team to go out and sign people when your QB has a monstrous contract that eats up more then 1/3 of your cap space.
    How did we ever sign Corey Simon and Adam Vinatieri or trade for McFarland?
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  19. #94
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    How did we ever sign Corey Simon and Adam Vinatieri or trade for McFarland?
    Giving up Edge as well as the fact that none of those guys are big name players...maybe with the exception of Vinatieri..but kickers aren't all that expensive to get.

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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Giving up Edge as well as the fact that none of those guys are big name players...maybe with the exception of Vinatieri..but kickers aren't all that expensive to get.
    You didn't say anything about big name people, you said sign people period. I just listed three guys that are getting paid pretty well and aren't scrubs either. I didn't even mention that we gave #1 money to Reggie Wayne or even the new contracts on the defensive side...
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    I don't understand the lack of respect Brady gets on here.

    What Robertmo said may be a stretch, but to say as of now that Brady isn't a top 5 all-time QB is just plain stupid.
    Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Steve Young.

    He's close... he's right there with Aikman, Favre, Elway... top ten certainly.

    I don't know about top-five, though.

    Moses, let's see your top-ten.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  22. #97
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturallystoned View Post
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    You didn't say anything about big name people, you said sign people period. I just listed three guys that are getting paid pretty well and aren't scrubs either. I didn't even mention that we gave #1 money to Reggie Wayne or even the new contracts on the defensive side...
    Well considering the fact that I said Mannings contract only ate a little over 1/3rd of your cap space..I would assume that you would know that the other 2/3rds could be used on other players. McFarland and Simon are good..but they aren't big game changers. You could only give money to Wayne because you lost Edge.

  23. #98
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Steve Young.

    He's close... he's right there with Aikman, Favre, Elway... top ten certainly.

    I don't know about top-five, though.

    Moses, let's see your top-ten.
    Starr
    Unitas
    Montana
    Bradshaw
    Namath
    Brady
    Marino
    Young
    Aikman
    Elway

    I guess Brady wasn't top 5 in my mind after all. What I said earlier was probably a stretch, even for myself, but I'll resign that he's top 10 all time with plenty of time to improve. That's all personal opinion though so don't attack me for it...I'm sure everyones top 10 is different. Favre would have been in there if he wasn't still playing and ruining his legacy.

  24. #99
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    McFarland and Simon are good..but they aren't big game changers. You could only give money to Wayne because you lost Edge.
    Once again you made it sound like we were unable to do anything because of Peyton's contract, I was proving otherwise. We could only give money to Reggie because we chose to, almost a full month before Edge signed with the Cards...
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    Default Re: Who will give the Colts their first loss?

    I don't understand how anyone can rank Aikman ahead of Peyton. Brady > Marino???

    Here's mine:

    1.) Joe Montana
    2.) Dan Marino
    3.) Johnny Unitas
    4.) Joe Namath
    5.) John Elway
    6.) Steve Young
    7.) Peyton Manning
    8.) Terry Bradshaw
    9.) Brett Favre
    10.) Tom Brady

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