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Thread: A simple question

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default A simple question

    We all have seen, heard, and read "fans" say that because of the "incident" they will no longer go to any Pacers games, and they no longer will support the Pacers.

    OK, here is my question. Were those "fans" who are saying that, did they ever go to games, did they ever watch the Pacers, did they ever support the Pacers except maybe when the Pacers get to the ECF?

    I say, no they weren't. They are just looking for the opportunity to slam the Pacers, they certainly weren't die-hard fans to begin with and they are using the incident as an excuse to bash the Pacers.

  2. #2
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple question

    What about Jay?

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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    We all have seen, heard, and read "fans" say that because of the "incident" they will no longer go to any Pacers games, and they no longer will support the Pacers.

    OK, here is my question. Were those "fans" who are saying that, did they ever go to games, did they ever watch the Pacers, did they ever support the Pacers except maybe when the Pacers get to the ECF?

    I say, no they weren't. They are just looking for the opportunity to slam the Pacers, they certainly weren't die-hard fans to begin with and they are using the incident as an excuse to bash the Pacers.
    I agree with you on something.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    What about Jay?
    Well, Jay lives in Chicago, 3.5 hours away, he has a family, he has a job, he has other commitments. Don't tell Jay I said this, but if he decides to go to fewer games, I can understand. Jay is a die-hard fan who will never stop being a fan.

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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    We all have seen, heard, and read "fans" say that because of the "incident" they will no longer go to any Pacers games, and they no longer will support the Pacers.

    OK, here is my question. Were those "fans" who are saying that, did they ever go to games, did they ever watch the Pacers, did they ever support the Pacers except maybe when the Pacers get to the ECF?

    I say, no they weren't. They are just looking for the opportunity to slam the Pacers, they certainly weren't die-hard fans to begin with and they are using the incident as an excuse to bash the Pacers.
    You're way off. I think if the fans can forgive by the dozen, then surely the players can show some understanding for pissed off fans.

    Anybody who's been around this town knows if the Pacers act like they got some damn sense the fans will follow, and I think it's very short-sighted to judge warranted hostilities over this craziness to be indicative of lackadaisical fandom. It's the sort of apologist mentality we've been seeing lately. A guy has to understand for every cause there's an effect - that's the way it is!

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Well, Jay lives in Chicago, 3.5 hours away, he has a family, he has a job, he has other commitments. Don't tell Jay I said this, but if he decides to go to fewer games, I can understand. Jay is a die-hard fan who will never stop being a fan.
    I think Jay's example blows your theory. However, it could be true that those who have said they won't come to games will actually keep coming anyway, despite the threat, just as you suspect Jay will.

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    Default Re: A simple question

    The Pacers don't need fans that turn their backs on them.

    The ones who are turning on the team aren't wanted.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think Jay's example blows your theory. However, it could be true that those who have said they won't come to games will actually keep coming anyway, despite the threat, just as you suspect Jay will.

    I'm saying those fans never went in the first place. Except for one game per season when they got free tickets.

    edit: I suppose I better put this disclaimer in. Of course I'm talking in general terms here, I'm sure there are some people out there who had planned on going to 10-15 games this season who now won't go to any. There are people like that out there. But if you listen to the radio, read newspaper and watch the news you would think that 80% of season ticket holders are demending a refund.

    I fear this thread will spiral out of control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm saying those fans never went in the first place. Except for one game per season when they got free tickets.
    Ok, so based off what?

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    Default Re: A simple question

    You're reaching UB. Plus, you're dangerously close to a Sassan-like "not a REAL fan" argument.

    Remember the story about the guy last season who had 4 courtside seats and was reducing his commitment to two seats? is HE not a real fan?

    We have multiple forum members who have stopped getting season tickets.

    Me, I've stopped wearing my Pacers hat to bars because I'm already sick of Trailblazer comparisons being thrown in my face.

    For the first time ever, I'm considering skipping the two times they come to LA this season. The franchise is headed for a crisis that only winning will repair, and guess what? We already didn't think that this was that much of a winning team.

    Facts are facts: Jackson was a liability, and the fans demanded that he be shown the door. Instead fan favorites Fred Jones, Pollard, AJ and Croshere were shown the door.

    I'm not a happy guy about this mess.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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  11. #11
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacesetter View Post
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    Ok, so based off what?
    Personal experiences and interaction with people over the past 5 days or so.

  12. #12
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    You're reaching UB. Plus, you're dangerously close to a Sassan-like "not a REAL fan" argument.

    Remember the story about the guy last season who had 4 courtside seats and was reducing his commitment to two seats? is HE not a real fan?

    We have multiple forum members who have stopped getting season tickets.

    Me, I've stopped wearing my Pacers hat to bars because I'm already sick of Trailblazer comparisons being thrown in my face.

    For the first time ever, I'm considering skipping the two times they come to LA this season. The franchise is headed for a crisis that only winning will repair, and guess what? We already didn't think that this was that much of a winning team.

    Facts are facts: Jackson was a liability, and the fans demanded that he be shown the door. Instead fan favorites Fred Jones, Pollard, AJ and Croshere were shown the door.

    I'm not a happy guy about this mess.

    I feared this thread would spiral out of control. I don't expect you or anyone else to be happy about this mess, and yes it is a mess. I wanted Jackson traded since last December.

    Those forums members who stopped getting season tickets ( I don't think there are that many) stopped before now.

    LA, I'm not suggesting anyone isn't a real fan. EVERYONE ON HERE IS A REAL FAN, or you wouldn't be here in the first place.


    My point is this, since last Friday I've talked to probably 15-20 people who said they were "done with the Pacers" they aren't going to anymore games, they aren't fans anymore. Well I know for a fact that almost everyone of them only go when they get free tickets and even at that they only go if they have nothing else going on and the weather isn't too cold. And many of those 15 people haven't been to a game in years, and only watch when the team gets into the ECF's. But they can sure talk up a storm

    So let me make a second disclaimer: MY COMMENTS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE WHO FREQUENTS THIS FORUM. EVERYONE HERE ARE TRUE FANS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Personal experiences and interaction with people over the past 5 days or so.
    You judge a whole city/state of fans based on YOUR experiences over the past 5 days?

    Illusions of grandeur ....

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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFan31 View Post
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    The Pacers don't need fans that turn their backs on them.

    The ones who are turning on the team aren't wanted.
    Wanna bet. The die-hard fans may not like the bandwagon fans, but the owners and management team NEED them. Those fans can be the difference between turning a profit or not, because the die-hards will be there no matter what. It's not just coming to the games, but it's the loss in merchandise sales, etc. And to be honest, that matters just as much as winning.

    I'm surprise more Pacer fans aren't worried about a potential Portland Trailblazer situation, where the fans just get fed up with the team. Indianapolis isn't a great pro sports town anyway, and Indiana probably cares more about the image of their basketball players than any other NBA market.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: A simple question

    You know my history with the Pacers UB. This was close, if not the last straw. I'm tired of supporting the like of Artest, Jackson and Tinsley. I expect the Pacers to represent class. It's a classy organization with some very classless players.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: A simple question

    I have said all along that the incident has made me further away from liking Jackson and Tinsley. I have posted a few tirades about how I feel on the subject and I won't bore anyone with it again here...

    I will say that I went to 12 games last year (plus the fanjam) from two hours away and I spent the summer talking about beating that game total. No matter how mad I was/am at the players for the recent incident, I still plan on attending as many as possible. I went to the fanjam, and I will be in attendance tomorrow night. I got the tempting offer for the four balcony tix for $9 also, and the only reason I'm not going is that I have a prior committment. Actually, it's in Noblestucky, and earlier in the day...hmmmm....I could still make it! Now I'm thinking about it!

    No matter how mad I get at a few players I consider knuckleheads, I will still attend games because of the old 'name on the front, not the back' attitude....

    I'm pretty much a pushover, so I am willing to take Jack at face value on the apology and now not write him off because of a lapse in judgment, albeit a BIG one, and not the first one....Now, if he goes back to low bball IQ and jawing at the refs.....Not sure how long the patience will hold.

    Same goes for Tinsley. If he can stay healthy and be on the court, I will be willing to start anew, even if he isn't a Top 5 PG....


    edit--

    And ease up on UB, I think he was asking a legitimate question and not accusing anyone of anything. To answer his question; YES, the people jawing about being done with the Pacers over this (not just here at PD, but everywhere) are probably made up of quite a few casual fans who would watch the scores, but not necessarily do the large capital outlay that the diehards do....



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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So let me make a second disclaimer: MY COMMENTS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE WHO FREQUENTS THIS FORUM. EVERYONE HERE ARE TRUE FANS
    Hey now, watch it. I'm not a true fan and everybody knows it. Don't be libeling me.
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Well I am still furious about this happening, but I still have my courtside seats for the game in DC, and I just got my tickets shipped for the game in December in Indianaapolis.

    Granted I am not normal (we all know that, he) in that I am a out of towner, and these oppurtunities present themselves very rarely for me.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by heywoode View Post
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    And ease up on UB, I think he was asking a legitimate question and not accusing anyone of anything. To answer his question; YES, the people jawing about being done with the Pacers over this (not just here at PD, but everywhere) are probably made up of quite a few casual fans who would watch the scores, but not necessarily do the large capital outlay that the diehards do....
    Not to pick at your post, but should we just say the hell with casual fans?

    Either you show up to games, buy a JO jersey, etc ... or your thoughts on Pacers basketball is irrelevant? Is that what we should think?

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    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacesetter View Post
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    Not to pick at your post, but should we just say the hell with casual fans?

    Either you show up to games, buy a JO jersey, etc ... or your thoughts on Pacers basketball is irrelevant? Is that what we should think?

    No, I don't that we should say/think that. I like the casual fan just fine. Not everyone can afford to do as much as I do, and I don't do nearly what some people do....

    I'm just saying yes, that I think at least a fair amount of people who are saying they are done with the Pacers are the casual fan, and not the people who are diehards...

    Even non-Pacer fans have a right to express their thoughts on Pacers basketball, and their thoughts aren't irrelevant...we have a ton of them who make quality posts around here all the time!



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    Default Re: A simple question

    UB - please accept my apology. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and I honestly thought that was where you were going.

    Fact is, the future of the franchise's fanbase are casual fans right now. As the Pacers win games and interact with the community, casual fans become bigger fans.

    The damage caused over the last two seasons are not just to the current attendance totals. It threatens the attendance totals for the next 5 years or more.

    BUT - I think we know that both casual fans AND long-time season ticket holders are leaving the franchise. Even after a full-bore marketing campaign that has tried to focus the fans onto a renewed commitment to playing basketball, the one-time pride of Indiana is has only continued to be a national embarassment.

    And it is impacting the interest in the team from courtside season ticket holders to casual fans. What's worse, potential fans are being scared away.

    That's bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

    I need ot say it again: Jackson was a liability. And we hung on to him months longer than we ever should have. This is yet another thing in a long list of backfires.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: A simple question

    Anybody read the article about the P's might want to renegotiate their stadium lease? Notice the $ losses that were projected? Think this incident will help that any?

    OK...the Broker I'm associated with has season tix a couple of rows behind the visitors bench. He's had them since the Telethon. His comment to me today was that the Artest thing sickened him and it grew worse last year and this has broken it for him. He's sending them a message that he was one of those that "Help Save the Pacers" but this time you're on your own. He's already paid for this years tix but I may get to use them frequently since he can't demand his money back.
    In the meantime, He's rediscovered amatuer sports. (IU and Butler may be the beneficiary's out of all this mess if many follow his example)
    So.....here you have a 25-30 season tix holder that missed fewer games per year than most people attend throwing in the towel. Does that mean ANYTHING to TPTB??????????
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  23. #23
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    UB - please accept my apology. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and I honestly thought that was where you were going.

    Fact is, the future of the franchise's fanbase are casual fans right now. As the Pacers win games and interact with the community, casual fans become bigger fans.

    The damage caused over the last two seasons are not just to the current attendance totals. It threatens the attendance totals for the next 5 years or more.

    BUT - I think we know that both casual fans AND long-time season ticket holders are leaving the franchise. Even after a full-bore marketing campaign that has tried to focus the fans onto a renewed commitment to playing basketball, the one-time pride of Indiana is has only continued to be a national embarassment.

    And it is impacting the interest in the team from courtside season ticket holders to casual fans. What's worse, potential fans are being scared away.

    That's bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

    I need ot say it again: Jackson was a liability. And we hung on to him months longer than we ever should have. This is yet another thing in a long list of backfires.

    I certainly accept your apology (though one was not needed).

    Attendance was going to be down this season anyway because most people don't think the team is going to be that good. And yes this incident hurts, and yes it will have a negative impact on ticket sales for years to come just like the brawl is still effcting things today.

    LA, I know you don't live in Indiana, but the marketing the Pacers had started a few weeks back and really ramped up 10 days ago was the biggest and most expensive campaign ion their history (I don't think I've seen that many Pacers commercials in my lifetime), and the incident Friday morning stopped it all. So that really hurts.

    I also believe the Pacers really tried to trade Jackson and found out that he had negative trade value. I'm not just saying his trade value was low, it was lower than low, it was negative meaning the pacers would have had to trade draft picks and valuable players just to move Jax and the only think the Pacers could have gotten were bad contracts. (Same with Tinsley). So the Pacers decided to keep Jax.

    I said a few weeks back that I look at this as a two year rebuilding project, and we are at the end of year one, during year two Jax and JT will be trade, I was saying that weeks ago.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Go Pacers!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: A simple question

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Anybody read the article about the P's might want to renegotiate their stadium lease? Notice the $ losses that were projected? Think this incident will help that any?

    OK...the Broker I'm associated with has season tix a couple of rows behind the visitors bench. He's had them since the Telethon. His comment to me today was that the Artest thing sickened him and it grew worse last year and this has broken it for him. He's sending them a message that he was one of those that "Help Save the Pacers" but this time you're on your own. He's already paid for this years tix but I may get to use them frequently since he can't demand his money back.
    In the meantime, He's rediscovered amatuer sports. (IU and Butler may be the beneficiary's out of all this mess if many follow his example)
    So.....here you have a 25-30 season tix holder that missed fewer games per year than most people attend throwing in the towel. Does that mean ANYTHING to TPTB??????????
    Wait, Unclebuck didn't say anything about 25-30 year season ticket holders. No way .... it can't be?!?!?!

    Honestly that's terrible!

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