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Thread: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

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    Default Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...RTS04/61010003

    Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Indianapolis police this morning arrested a man they say was driving the car that struck Indiana Pacers player Stephen Jackson outside of a Westside strip club.

    Deon “Dino” Willford, 23, Indianapolis, was arrested about 1 a.m. today on initial charges of criminal recklessness, leaving the scene of an accident and driving without a license, police said. He was held this morning in the Marion County Jail with bond set at $100,000, records show.
    Jackson and three other Pacers were leaving Club Rio, 5054 W. 38th St., when police say Jackson fired five shots from a 9 mm handgun after a man punched him in the face and tried to run him over with a car outside the club at 3 a.m. Friday.

    Police have said Jackson appeared to be firing in self-defense. Marion County prosecutors will evaluate the evidence and make the ultimate decision on whether Jackson or his teammates — Jamaal Tinsley, Marquis Daniels and Jimmie “Snap” Hunter — will face charges.

    Police interviewed Quentin “Fingers” Willford, 24, Indianapolis, in connection with the incident, but he was not arrested. Police are still investigating a third man linked to the incident, Sgt. Matthew Mount said.

    Marion County Prosecutor Carl Brizzi said Monday that fingerprint checks are being conducted on a small bag of marijuana found in Tinsley’s car Friday. Police did not arrest anyone at the scene because they could not link the drug to any particular person.

    Friday’s incident began with an exchange of words inside the club and spilled into the parking lot as the Pacers tried to leave.

    One man slugged Jackson in the jaw, bloodying his mouth. The other men got into a blue Oldsmobile, and the car struck Jackson.
    Jackson suffered bruises and, after the incident, he went to the hospital, where he had stitches to close cuts on his mouth. He was not seriously hurt but rested during the team’s afternoon practice.

    Jackson told officers he fired all five shots into the air, an account police are still checking out. Officers seized his handgun and guns found in the cars of Tinsley and Daniels. Police said all have valid permits.

    Part of the incident was captured on Club Rio’s security camera, Mount said. The grainy video shows Jackson firing one shot in the air, then getting struck by the car, Mount said. The other events occurred outside the camera’s view.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Uh-oh - now we're gonna spend the next month listening to details of conflicting stories and how poor Dino was/wasn't a victim. Evidently Fingers wasn't arrested.

    I'll be very interested when they release his criminal record, if he has one.
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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    hmmm

    lessee......a "mouthpiece" could claim that he was fleeing from a gun wielding madman(Jax) when Jackson suddenly jumped in front of the car and out of fear of being shot the guy sped off throwing Jax to the ground.

    Someone can dress that up to sound nice and legalese but that COULD be the general idea.




    edit....were there any security tapes anywhere???
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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by naptown View Post
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    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...RTS04/61010003

    Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club
    I first read this sentence as if they found "Dino" at another strip club where he was then apprehended. My first thought was, "Man, this guy sure likes strip clubs."

    A second reading cleared it up. I think I need more coffee.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    indygeezer,

    Yes there were lots of security tapes taken from the scene. Which is why he got arrested. The cops have said almost from the beginning that security tapes and eye witness accounts completely collaborate everything the players told them about the chain of events.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by Rinuven View Post
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    I first read this sentence as if they found "Dino" at another strip club where he was then apprehended. My first thought was, "Man, this guy sure likes strip clubs."

    A second reading cleared it up. I think I need more coffee.
    Drink all the joe you'd like and please enjoy, but it won't solve the problem of a poorly worded headline. Not only does it read like they got him at another club but that it was another run-in and the entire team was involved. Neither of which may seem so far fetched given those in question.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    I still think attempted murder charges are possible... after all he intentionally tried to run over a man with a car.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Drink all the joe you'd like and please enjoy, but it won't solve the problem of a poorly worded headline. Not only does it read like they got him at another club but that it was another run-in and the entire team was involved. Neither of which may seem so far fetched given those in question.
    Okay, well at least I'm not alone in thinking there was a poor choice of phrasing. But the coffee still tastes good.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    $100,000 bond.... there must be some very damaging scenes on those tapes and some pretty damaging eye witness accounts.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by naptown View Post
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    $100,000 bond.... there must be some very damaging scenes on those tapes and some pretty damaging eye witness accounts.
    That or a list of convictions as long as your arm.

    One scene that is on the tape is the car hitting Jackson - and evidently Dino was driving (good thing too based on the physical description of "Fingers").
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    So that we're better informed because there's going to be a lot of talk, here is the Indiana Code.

    IC 35-41-3-2 Use of force to protect person or property........

    (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in using deadly force only if he reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to himself or a third person or the comission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting himself or his family by reasonable means necessary.

    (b) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person if he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry or attack on his dwelling or curtilage.

    (c) With respect to property other than a dwelling or curtilage, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in his possession, lawfully in possession of a member of his immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property he has authority to proctect.. However, a person is not justified in using deadly force unless that force is justified under subsection (a) of this sectinon.

    (d) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c) of this section, a person is not justified in using force if:

    (1) he is commiting, or is escaping after the comission of a crime;

    (2) he provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person: or

    (3) he has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor, unless he withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person his intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful actaion.


    Forgive the typos, too much typing.
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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    I still think attempted murder charges are possible... after all he intentionally tried to run over a man with a car.
    There are a lot of posible charges, attempted murder will not be one of them

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    So that we're better informed because there's going to be a lot of talk, here is the Indiana Code.

    IC 35-41-3-2 Use of force to protect person or property........

    (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in using deadly force only if he reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to himself or a third person or the comission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting himself or his family by reasonable means necessary.

    (b) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person if he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry or attack on his dwelling or curtilage.

    (c) With respect to property other than a dwelling or curtilage, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in his possession, lawfully in possession of a member of his immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property he has authority to proctect.. However, a person is not justified in using deadly force unless that force is justified under subsection (a) of this sectinon.

    (d) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c) of this section, a person is not justified in using force if:

    (1) he is commiting, or is escaping after the comission of a crime;

    (2) he provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person: or

    (3) he has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor, unless he withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person his intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful actaion.

    Forgive the typos, too much typing.


    RWB, thanks for posting these. Aren't there also sections in the code concerning discharging a firearm and vehicular assault? I don't know the law, but I'm guessing those sections would come into consideration, too.
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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Where's Paul Harvey at now ... this should be a good one!

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    hmmm

    lessee......a "mouthpiece" could claim that he was fleeing from a gun wielding madman(Jax) when Jackson suddenly jumped in front of the car and out of fear of being shot the guy sped off throwing Jax to the ground.

    Someone can dress that up to sound nice and legalese but that COULD be the general idea.
    Is that harder ro believe than Jackson walking away from a fight?

    All thats been reported, as far as the fight goes, is that Jax was hit in the mouth. You seriously believe thats all there was to it?

    Consider how Jackson has handled himself the past two seasons & tell me how you think he handled himself last Friday morning?

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    There are a lot of posible charges, attempted murder will not be one of them
    Why not? It appeared to be intentional and it's on videotape, with witnesses.

    I think a moving car qualifies as a deadly weapon, no?

    Seriously, please explain. Why not?

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    In order for it to be attempted murder, you'd have to prove that he wanted to kill him, which would be next to impossible.

    Intent is a VERY tricky thing to prove.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Here's an excerpt from a legal case regarding the difference between murder and manslaughter. I am no lawyer, and anyone who is should speak up and speak with authority.

    But it looks to me that Since86 is right. There was "sudden heat" which would eliminate the possibility of attempted murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watts v. Indiana
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    (b) ‘The existence of sudden heat is a mitigating factor that reduces
    what otherwise would be Murder to Voluntary Manslaughter.’
    http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions...0definition%22
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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    So these dudes are brothers eh? I don't know if I'd ever go to a strip club with my brother (not that I would without him but, for argument's sake) - that just strikes me as weird (personally). I also thought they'd be older, say, mid-30's or 40's...I wondered if race had anything to do with it - that is, a white fan versus a black athlete (of course this wouldn't be a simple diagnosis if it proves to be the case, but its a point of interest nonetheless), but they didn't release the ethnicity of the brothers so it is hard to determine at this point.

    I wonder if they're fans of the Pacers, or NBA basketball for that matter, or not...because if they are, this is just another case of fan/player interaction that has hurt the Pacers. Player gets wronged by fan, overreacts (if indeed Jax overreacted is debateable).

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    In order for it to be attempted murder, you'd have to prove that he wanted to kill him, which would be next to impossible.

    Intent is a VERY tricky thing to prove.
    Rabid, this is why.

    Now you would have to consult with a lawyer to see if they could get him with attempted manslaughter or something along those lines, but attempted murder is a stretch, and a big one at that

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Here's an excerpt from a legal case regarding the difference between murder and manslaughter. I am no lawyer, and anyone who is should speak up and speak with authority.

    But it looks to me that Since86 is right. There was "sudden heat" which would eliminate the possibility of attempted murder.



    http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions...0definition%22



    I am not a lawyer, but I did play one on TV!

    On a more serious note, I am not a lawyer but I am studying law(god help us all! haha)

    What Since said is correct, at least from what I have learned.

    Now if Indiana has any state specific laws, that I could not answer. I can say, though, that any murder or attempted murder charge would be a reach.

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I am not a lawyer, but I did play one on TV!

    On a more serious note, I am not a lawyer but I am studying law(god help us all! haha)

    What Since said is correct, at least from what I have learned.

    Now if Indiana has any state specific laws, that I could not answer. I can say, though, that any murder or attempted murder charge would be a reach.
    You got it. In order to prove murder, you need to prove intent (They meant to commit the murder, i.e., thought out how to do it). The fact that the guy acted in the heat of the moment, apparently, makes intent very hard to prove, short of a confession.

    In order to prove an "attempt" with any charge (attempt murder, attempt burglary, etc.), you have to be able to prove the person took a substantial step towards committing the crime.

    Neither manslaughter (attempt) or attempt murder is going to fly. At all. Odds are they/he will get charged with Criminal Recklessness with a Vehicle, a D felony. Easily proven in this case.
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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Does anyone know why Tinsley and Danials´ cars were searched?

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by cariocapacer View Post
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    Does anyone know why Tinsley and Danials´ cars were searched?
    Good point. Since we got the lawyers out, what's up with that?

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    Default Re: Suspect arrested in run-in with Pacers at strip club

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    You got it. In order to prove murder, you need to prove intent (They meant to commit the murder, i.e., thought out how to do it). The fact that the guy acted in the heat of the moment, apparently, makes intent very hard to prove, short of a confession.

    In order to prove an "attempt" with any charge (attempt murder, attempt burglary, etc.), you have to be able to prove the person took a substantial step towards committing the crime.

    Neither manslaughter (attempt) or attempt murder is going to fly. At all. Odds are they/he will get charged with Criminal Recklessness with a Vehicle, a D felony. Easily proven in this case.
    Didn't mean to provoke a big discussion on this, but a couple points I want to make:

    - As far as I know, there is no such thing as "attempted" manslaughter. The whole point of manslaughter as a crime is that it doesn't involve intent.
    - I'm no lawyer either, but I think "intent" can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt using evidence other than confessions etc. For example, if the tape shows Jax in the path of the car, and then this guy accelerated without turning, it'd be pretty easy to prove intent to do harm, and a speeding car can be considered just as deadly of a "weapon" as a gun. Also, we don't know what sorts of comments might have been made immediately before or during this part of the incident.
    - At the very least, "assault with a deadly weapon" or SOMETHING should be in order. It wasn't just a hit-and-run; he hit Jax ON PURPOSE. It was intentional.


    EDIT: It just seems to me that if you intentionally try to run somebody over with a car that you should be charged with something more severe than "criminal recklessness, leaving the scene of a personal injury accident, and a misdemeanor count of driving without a license." Am I missing something here? No assault charge? Seems kinda weird.

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