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Thread: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    I shouldn't have decided against saying I was done, huh?

    Sorry I even respond. I will go hide in my cave now.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    I hope Kstat lifted this off season because I think Since is pushing for Most Argumentive Poster this year.
    This is NBDL stuff.

    Did you see the thread about nutrition last season?

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I think I'm getting ready to have a heartattack. Tinsley is no Reggie, not even close. There's a big difference in being in shape, and being in tip-top shape. The length Reggie played, how he played, and how many games a year speak for themselves. Tinsley, at the pace he is going, won't even be in the same ball park as Reggie Miller.
    Are you constantly changing your point to keep an argument going?



    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You can't tone a muscle, nor strengthen it, without working it. There is no possible way. None. That's what I'm disagreeing with.

    You can lose body weight/fat and make yourself look toner, with bigger/stronger muscles, but you've done nothing to the actual muscles. You can't gain strength or toneness, without training. It's impossible.
    Who's argued that, besides you? You're counterpointing yourself.


    Hey, I don't think you should stop posting, fwiw. Just counter with some examples on the things you disagree with (i.e., Tinsley coming to camp in shape, not working out) instead of arguing about something everyone agrees on.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I shouldn't have decided against saying I was done, huh?

    Sorry I even respond. I will go hide in my cave now.
    Don't hid. I meant it with a smiley.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Are you constantly changing your point to keep an argument going?
    I don't understand how you think I've changed my position with regards to Reggie. Comparing Tins with him is laughable, to me. Reggie is probably the single best example of what work in the offseason should look like. Tinsley isn't in the same category. 90% of the league isn't in the same category. I think that in alone, speaks for itself.

    EDIT: Here's a pretty good snipit of an article about Reggie after the 2000finals run.

    Miller shot 36 percent and averaged 16 points in the disappointing 1999 conference finals. Best was hobbled by a groin injury, as he had been late the previous season.

    Both hired personal trainers last summer and went to work.

    Miller concentrated on improving his off-the-dribble skills and his strength and stamina. He worked with personal trainer Amy Fearrin. He became a regular in the gym and weight room at Lawrence Central High School, on the track at Carmel High. He added about 10 pounds of muscle.

    Miller stepped back to give Rose room to emerge during the regular season, but he still averaged 18.1 points and he was Reggie, his own self, during the playoffs, averaging 24 points. He credited his added strength.

    "I think it has helped me tremendously," said Miller. "As much holding and tripping and hitting as goes on underneath the boards and especially in our motion play, I feel that I've been able to unhook myself a little bit and feel a little bit more free.

    "But I think the weight training and the weight actually has helped me more so in the post. When I'm posting up other guards and so forth, I'm able to hold them off, get the ball, face them and then take them off the dribble."
    http://www.swish22.com/Richards0621.html

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Who's argued that, besides you? You're counterpointing yourself.
    When you say "without lifting weights," do you not know that body weight exercises fall in that category, or are you talking about something else like using nutrition/supplements/other substances?

    I'm assuming that you know pushups and such are just as much weight lifting as doing bicep curls with a dumbbell is.

    If that's the confusion, then I wasted an hour of our time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
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    Don't hid. I meant it with a smiley.
    I know, I meant mine with one as well.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    When you say "without lifting weights," do you not know that body weight exercises fall in that category, or are you talking about something else like using nutrition/supplements/other substances?

    I'm assuming that you know pushups and such are just as much weight lifting as doing bicep curls with a dumbbell is.

    If that's the confusion, then I wasted an hour of our time.
    So if you're hiding in your cave doing some pushups and some other caveman sticks his head in and says, "Hey, whatcha doin'?" you'll say, "Lifting weights"?............
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't understand how you think I've changed my position with regards to Reggie. Comparing Tins with him is laughable, to me. Reggie is probably the single best example of what work in the offseason should look like. Tinsley isn't in the same category. 90% of the league isn't in the same category. I think that in alone, speaks for itself.
    You're changing points because this entire argument is based on whether or not Jamaal came into camp in shape. You then compared him to Reggie before anyone else on the premise that Reggie led by example by coming into camp in shape. I countered by saying Jamaal was a better example than Reggie in terms of offseason workouts because he came into camp with much more visible results than Reggie ever had.

    Now you're countering that by saying it's laughable to compare Tins. to Reg., and you're the one who started that comparison. ::shakes head::

    And you're expanding your argument each time by including things that weren't even a part of the original argument. And they are things (Reggie's leadership qualities, who stayed healthy during the regular season, etc.) that have nothing to do with offseason workouts. Hence my statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    When you say "without lifting weights," do you not know that body weight exercises fall in that category, or are you talking about something else like using nutrition/supplements/other substances.

    I'm assuming that you know pushups and such are just as much weight lifting as doing bicep curls with a dumbbell is.

    If that's the confusion, then I wasted an hour of our time.

    You just said you were disagreeing with the point that you can't tone or strengthen a muscle without working it. Everyone agrees on that, so counterpointing that is just arguing with yourself.

    But I do think it's funny that you'd bend semantics and definitions on things like lifting weights to include pushups, so it's not wasting my time. I respect your persistence.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How you take care of your body, directly affects your overall heath. The better you do it, the healthier you are.

    They're one in the same.
    Yep. Perfect example - Lance Armstrong. Luckily he finally realized that he had to take cycling seriously before he caught cancer again.

    "Taking care of your body" is a very subjective thing, and one of the top things on the list would be to NOT ABUSE YOUR BODY, as in do not perform excessively strenuous physical activities over and over again. There's a reason guys in heavy labor jobs develop chronic problems early in life.

    There's also a reason why so many athletes need to have surgeries. Their job goes beyond routine health and off into the area of excessive. There was a time that running was all the rage, and then the results of that high stress/impact activity began to show up. Suddenly it was swimming or cycling instead.


    Lifting weights incompasses push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, and every other type of body lifting exercises. It isn't restricted to using dumbbells, plates, or machinery.
    As Rat already called it, silly semantics. Is this really what you think they meant when they said Tinsley was doing weight-training? Weight training typically implies isotonic training WITH WEIGHTS as opposed to other forms of muscle training that don't require weights, such as isometric training. Those terms are typically used to indicate different methods and rarely, if ever, is the term weight training applied to a set of isometic-only exercises in common usage.

    Sure a PT might see it as inclusive of all the sub-forms of muscle building, but this isn't a 400 level physiology class, its a blurb from an NBA beat writer in a general purpose newspaper.

    For all we know Tinsley "not weight training" meant "only" running with resistance for leg power/speed, regular variations of sprints and distance, push-ups, situps, crunches, etc. He was doing something in previous seasons to get in shape.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Forget all this weightlifting crapola, has he been taking his Vitamin C?
    (or whatever might cure those upsetting colds and flus)
    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    Forget all this weightlifting crapola, has he been taking his Vitamin C?
    (or whatever might cure those upsetting colds and flus)

    http://www.sinusbuster.com/

    I've sent him a lifetime supply.......
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    http://www.sinusbuster.com/

    I've sent him a lifetime supply.......

    In all seriousness, I wonder if there's anything Tinsley can do to lessen the sinus problems.


    Is there anyone here with sinus problems that's willing to share dos/don'ts?

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    In all seriousness, I wonder if there's anything Tinsley can do to lessen the sinus problems.


    Is there anyone here with sinus problems that's willing to share dos/don'ts?
    Hah... maybe this isn't fair, but have you ever heard of somatization disorder?

    I've always chalked up a lot of this to malcontent.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

    Ligament damage is a whole different ball park, which is exactly what a dislocated shoulder is, or even a hyperextended knee. You could have the most perfect weight resistance training regimen, and still roll an ankle or dislocate a shoulder (especially when it was pulled the way JOs was).
    First of all, having the STRENGTH to resist someone extending your shoulder back would be relevent to avoiding such an injury. Second of all you are making my point with your response. YOU said it was all that upper body work that created his lower body injuries or left him vulnerable, whatever.

    My point was that he didn't have a bunch of lower body injuries and actually even had an incident where he somehow resisted what most people though should have been a severe injury.

    Telling me about how different injuries can occur doesn't respond to my point at all, it doesn't address the fact that actually JO HAS NOT HAD a bunch of lower body problems.

    Dislocated shoulder in 04-05, groin injury in 05-05, and was almost unfazed when his knee bent the wrong direction. Can you tell us all about the rest of his serious lower body injuries (ie, not routine problems that ALL NBA players run into, such as ankle sprains, etc)?

    If not then please retract your comment about his upper body workout creating his lower body injurIES.


    It's easy to see why he might not weight train? Are you kidding me????? You're a very, very logical person Seth, and that goes against common sense.
    Here you go, logic 101, as simplistic as it gets...

    1) I don't work out

    2) I don't miss games due to injury

    3) Therefore I don't need to work out in order to avoid missing games due to injury.

    Give me a break. That's basically what I put in the original post anyway. Oh, let me guess, you think he WAS hurt in those first 3 seasons. Nope.


    He played 80 games and then 73 games, and of the 9 he missed 5-6 of those were for personal reasons (his mother died from cancer in March 03, and I think he took time off earlier when she was doing poorly or perhaps first diagnosed).

    In his 3rd season he was healthy enough to play but his new head coach didn't like his game (or had some issue with him), so he had to wait 2 months to get his chance. Of the final 55-60 games left in the season at that point he played 49-50.

    So okay the brawl hits and he runs into a leg issue around mid-season. Allegedly it was misdiagnosed, but I'm sure we all have our questions about how it went down. Regardless he did come back by the playoffs and played fairly well. Okay, so that was a freak thing, it was a crazy year and honestly some of the problem may have come from the 40+ minutes they had to get from him with the roster so depleated.

    I mean Reggie (Mr. Health) spent the start of the season recovering from surgery, same with Foster. Croshere had a broken rib at one point apparently and/or a strained chest muscle (thus the 27% from 3 or whatever). Fred Jones even ended up hurting that year.

    So Tinsley can still easily blow that off as not the norm, which it certainly was not by any measure.

    Then last year he runs into more problems, and perhaps more severe at that. Was it attitude or a real health problem? If it was health, then I can see how a 2nd season of problems after none before that would change his thinking about his regimen.



    I think far more legit questions regarding Tinsley are why doesn't he play through sinusitis pain/discomfort and just how does his health affect his sometimes grumpy attitude. I think I've mentioned it here a few times too, but he had a pout session just last year in the first Miami game when SarJas got the shot to finish out that game.

    Yes JT had his shin hurting, but that shouldn't have kept him from watching a very close game and perhaps even cheering, clapping, hey, even LOOKING at SarJas when he hit the big shot late in the game (he didn't and I was watching since I had picked up on his odd attitude a few minutes before that and started paying attention to his behavior/reactions).

    In short, even as a big Tinsley fan, which I am, I think there are far more serious questions regarding his attitude toward the team and/or Rick than there are regarding his health and workout plans.


    Oh, and BTW I'm calling BULLS*** on this whole thread now...
    From Bruno's own column in October 2004
    He has the full support of his head coach. The team president has projected him as a potential All-Star. The point guard position has been constructed with a clear pecking order and he resides at the top.

    Still, Jamaal Tinsley is taking nothing for granted.

    "Not at all," he said. "Last year, I thought it was my job, too, but coach (Rick Carlisle) made a decision I couldn’t control. This year I came with the same attitude that it was my job, and mainly I just wanted to work on my body and work on my game."

    The result of Tinsley's offseason regimen is apparent. He weighs 185 pounds, 10 less than his playing weight of the past three seasons. His twice-a-day workouts included drills for ball-handling, shooting off the dribble and jump shooting as well as weightlifting and long-distance runs on a track.

    "I just wanted to come back in the best shape of my life as a professional," Tinsley said. "At Iowa State my first year I was 185 and I felt good. Going back and looking at the tapes of those games, it made me a better player being at that weight."
    Link to story

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Oh, and BTW I'm calling BULLS*** on this whole thread now...
    From Bruno's own column in October 2004

    Link to story
    How this thread ever reached 80-some posts is beyond me. Well, rehashing the Dujaun Wagner/ Chauncey Billups picture was worth while. But otherwise...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    So okay the brawl hits and he runs into a leg issue around mid-season. Allegedly it was misdiagnosed, but I'm sure we all have our questions about how it went down.
    http://www.insidehoops.com/tinsley-i...w-041805.shtml

    InsideHoops.com: What's the latest on you and your health? (Readers: Again, note that this is from April 5)

    Jamaal Tinsley: It's frustrating. Knowing I can't be out there. I'm just happy that they found out what's wrong with me, and I just got to deal with it right now. It's kind of frustrating knowing this is his (Reggie's) last year and I can't be out there and play. But things happen for a reason.

    InsideHoops.com: And, as for your injury, it took a while to figure out exactly what was wrong, right?

    Jamaal Tinsley: They didn't know what was wrong. The staff at Indiana, they didn't know what's wrong. Came up here (to New York) and right away I found out what's the problem. At the time when they didn't know what was wrong, I was getting treated, and that probably made it extend a little longer than it is, but it's just frustrating knowing that you don't know what's wrong and you think you're alright and you want to go out there and play, but the only thing you're doing is hurting it. But I just have to move on and now that I know what the problem is, I just got to get healthy.

    InsideHoops.com: So now it's being treated correctly.

    Jamaal Tinsley: It ain't no treatment. I just got to let it heal, and probably have surgery, who knows. But right now I just got to wait and see what the outcome is, and next time I'm with a doctor I know it's good.

    InsideHoops.com: What are the chances you will need surgery? Any idea?

    Jamaal Tinsley: Not at all. When I go back to the doctor in the next week or two, I'll find out everything
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
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    How this thread ever reached 80-some posts is beyond me. Well, rehashing the Dujaun Wagner/ Chauncey Billups picture was worth while. But otherwise...
    Hey I learned that doing push ups in considered lifting weights. How I lived this long and never knew that is beyond me.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    But I do think it's funny that you'd bend semantics and definitions on things like lifting weights to include pushups, so it's not wasting my time. I respect your persistence.
    I guess the one of the best undergrad schools in the nation for exercise science, and THE best grad school in the nation for it, twist semantics to fit their view.

    Pushups being included in the weight lifting category is what we've been taught since day one of your first exsci class.

    A bench press works the exact same muscles as push up, in the exact same position other than laying on your back as opposed to having your weight on your hands.

    Sorry that a highly recognized institute doesn't teach the way YOU want it to be taught.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    As Rat already called it, silly semantics. Is this really what you think they meant when they said Tinsley was doing weight-training? Weight training typically implies isotonic training WITH WEIGHTS as opposed to other forms of muscle training that don't require weights, such as isometric training. Those terms are typically used to indicate different methods and rarely, if ever, is the term weight training applied to a set of isometic-only exercises in common usage.

    Sure a PT might see it as inclusive of all the sub-forms of muscle building, but this isn't a 400 level physiology class, its a blurb from an NBA beat writer in a general purpose newspaper.

    For all we know Tinsley "not weight training" meant "only" running with resistance for leg power/speed, regular variations of sprints and distance, push-ups, situps, crunches, etc. He was doing something in previous seasons to get in shape.

    This is the VERY last post in this thread, from me.

    You obviously don't know what an isometric exercise is. It's an exercise that doesn't fully contract the muscle, and keeps the joint angle the same throughout the exercise.

    An example: Isometric curl is when you stand infront of a heavy desk, place your hands under the desk, and try to lift the desk up. Your muscle contracts slightly, but can't contract anymore due to the weight being too heavy to lift upwards.

    THAT is an isometric exercise, because the joint angle stays the same throughout. Obviously the joint angle changes in pushups/situps.

    A pushup is a PRIME example of a isotonic exercise, because your body parts are moving against a force, I.E. weights or the floor.

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I guess the one of the best undergrad schools in the nation for exercise science, and THE best grad school in the nation for it, twist semantics to fit their view.

    Pushups being included in the weight lifting category is what we've been taught since day one of your first exsci class.

    A bench press works the exact same muscles as push up, in the exact same position other than laying on your back as opposed to having your weight on your hands.

    Sorry that a highly recognized institute doesn't teach the way YOU want it to be taught.
    Straw man.

    You are defending how terminology within the PT paradigm is used when the rest of us are talking about common man usage. That doesn't make it "right", and you can have a great chuckle at the next PT conference about the morons in the everyday world that think pushups are different than lifting weights, but it won't change the reality that laymen do use terms in a different way.

    If someone says their CPU was acting up I don't start a debate about how the central processing unit isn't the same as the entire computer and that even the on-chip cache isn't techincally the instruction processing section and is really just memory, etc, etc. If I did I'd get a blank "who gives a s***" look from them.

    A ball has weight and shooting it requires lifting it, moving the weight with muscles. Care to point out to Bruno or Tinsley that technically shooting is included in the term weightlifting and that there is no need to mention it twice when describing his off-season regimen?

    You obviously don't know what an isometric exercise is. It's an exercise that doesn't fully contract the muscle, and keeps the joint angle the same throughout the exercise.
    Actually because I am able to read and like to be sure of what I'm speaking about I obviously DID know (did validate with research) and was careful to phrase it correctly. I didn't say isometric never uses weights, because it can. Nor did I say that isotonic exercises had to use external weights. I said the term to the average joe IMPLIED "isotonic with weights" which clearly is not the same was "isometric with weights" or "isotonic without weights". That means that layman associate weightlifting with isotonics done with free weights or weight machines rather than someone pulling against their own muscle in an isometic exercise or just using a weight to hold the muscle in a fixed but exerted position.

    The point isn't if they are correct in thinking this way, but is this what they had in mind or not when they used the term. You never did say that you thought that really Bruno or Tinsley were including all forms of weight training, including push-ups, when it was said that he had or hadn't done any.

    Dude got out of bed and stood up. bam, weight training, all summer long. XBox - bam, resistance training on his muscles....his finger, hand and wrist muscles, but still.


    Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number, especially considering the average joe wouldn't think of the square root of negative one when you said imaginary number anyway. They'd probably think "fake phone number".

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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number (square root of -1).
    That's good stuff right there.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Straw man.

    You are defending how terminology within the PT paradigm is used when the rest of us are talking about common man usage. That doesn't make it "right", and you can have a great chuckle at the next PT conference about the morons in the everyday world that think pushups are different than lifting weights, but it won't change the reality that laymen do use terms in a different way.

    If someone says their CPU was acting up I don't start a debate about how the central processing unit isn't the same as the entire computer and that even the on-chip cache isn't techincally the instruction processing section and is really just memory, etc, etc. If I did I'd get a blank "who gives a s***" look from them.

    A ball has weight and shooting it requires lifting it, moving the weight with muscles. Care to point out to Bruno or Tinsley that technically shooting is included in the term weightlifting and that there is no need to mention it twice when describing his off-season regimen?

    Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number (square root of -1).
    I've already acknowledged that I WAS NOT aware he didn't include a pushup as lifting weights, and said I wasted our time.

    I'll say it again: I did NOT know he wasn't including those types of exercies in weight training. I apologize for wasting your/my time.

    That's three times I've said it, twice in this thread. Quit harping about it.

  22. #97
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    A pushup is a PRIME example of a isotonic exercise, because your body parts are moving against a force, I.E. weights or the floor.
    So a pushup is considered "lifting floor"......sweet...........
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  23. #98
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I've already acknowledged that I WAS NOT aware he didn't include a pushup as lifting weights, and said I wasted our time.

    I'll say it again: I did NOT know he wasn't including those types of exercies in weight training. I apologize for wasting your/my time.

    That's three times I've said it, twice in this thread. Quit harping about it.
    I had nothing more to say about it till the "I guess my elite grad program is wrong" and the "obviously you don't understand the terms" responses, both of which implied that you were still defending the point.

    I'm not sure what kind of response you were looking for when you made those posts, but to me they sounded rather arugmentative. Somehow I missed the point that by making those posts you were actually making a final concession about incorrectly using the literal definition rather than the common usage.

    I will admit that I still don't understand how they meant that, but I will accept that they did with the misunderstanding lying squarely on me. I'm sorry to have belabored the point.

  24. #99
    How u imawhat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

    I bet you've heard the phrase "you're never wrong, are you?", 86. Just drop it. You were wrong, and you're still bending.

  25. #100
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

    Weight training is a form of exercise for developing the strength and size of skeletal muscles.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_training

    A press up or push up is a common strength training exercise performed in a prone position
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_up

    Thank you. Good day.

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