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Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

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  • #91
    Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

    Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
    How this thread ever reached 80-some posts is beyond me. Well, rehashing the Dujaun Wagner/ Chauncey Billups picture was worth while. But otherwise...
    Hey I learned that doing push ups in considered lifting weights. How I lived this long and never knew that is beyond me.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

      Originally posted by imawhat View Post
      But I do think it's funny that you'd bend semantics and definitions on things like lifting weights to include pushups, so it's not wasting my time. I respect your persistence.
      I guess the one of the best undergrad schools in the nation for exercise science, and THE best grad school in the nation for it, twist semantics to fit their view.

      Pushups being included in the weight lifting category is what we've been taught since day one of your first exsci class.

      A bench press works the exact same muscles as push up, in the exact same position other than laying on your back as opposed to having your weight on your hands.

      Sorry that a highly recognized institute doesn't teach the way YOU want it to be taught.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        As Rat already called it, silly semantics. Is this really what you think they meant when they said Tinsley was doing weight-training? Weight training typically implies isotonic training WITH WEIGHTS as opposed to other forms of muscle training that don't require weights, such as isometric training. Those terms are typically used to indicate different methods and rarely, if ever, is the term weight training applied to a set of isometic-only exercises in common usage.

        Sure a PT might see it as inclusive of all the sub-forms of muscle building, but this isn't a 400 level physiology class, its a blurb from an NBA beat writer in a general purpose newspaper.

        For all we know Tinsley "not weight training" meant "only" running with resistance for leg power/speed, regular variations of sprints and distance, push-ups, situps, crunches, etc. He was doing something in previous seasons to get in shape.

        This is the VERY last post in this thread, from me.

        You obviously don't know what an isometric exercise is. It's an exercise that doesn't fully contract the muscle, and keeps the joint angle the same throughout the exercise.

        An example: Isometric curl is when you stand infront of a heavy desk, place your hands under the desk, and try to lift the desk up. Your muscle contracts slightly, but can't contract anymore due to the weight being too heavy to lift upwards.

        THAT is an isometric exercise, because the joint angle stays the same throughout. Obviously the joint angle changes in pushups/situps.

        A pushup is a PRIME example of a isotonic exercise, because your body parts are moving against a force, I.E. weights or the floor.
        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
          I guess the one of the best undergrad schools in the nation for exercise science, and THE best grad school in the nation for it, twist semantics to fit their view.

          Pushups being included in the weight lifting category is what we've been taught since day one of your first exsci class.

          A bench press works the exact same muscles as push up, in the exact same position other than laying on your back as opposed to having your weight on your hands.

          Sorry that a highly recognized institute doesn't teach the way YOU want it to be taught.
          Straw man.

          You are defending how terminology within the PT paradigm is used when the rest of us are talking about common man usage. That doesn't make it "right", and you can have a great chuckle at the next PT conference about the morons in the everyday world that think pushups are different than lifting weights, but it won't change the reality that laymen do use terms in a different way.

          If someone says their CPU was acting up I don't start a debate about how the central processing unit isn't the same as the entire computer and that even the on-chip cache isn't techincally the instruction processing section and is really just memory, etc, etc. If I did I'd get a blank "who gives a s***" look from them.

          A ball has weight and shooting it requires lifting it, moving the weight with muscles. Care to point out to Bruno or Tinsley that technically shooting is included in the term weightlifting and that there is no need to mention it twice when describing his off-season regimen?

          You obviously don't know what an isometric exercise is. It's an exercise that doesn't fully contract the muscle, and keeps the joint angle the same throughout the exercise.
          Actually because I am able to read and like to be sure of what I'm speaking about I obviously DID know (did validate with research) and was careful to phrase it correctly. I didn't say isometric never uses weights, because it can. Nor did I say that isotonic exercises had to use external weights. I said the term to the average joe IMPLIED "isotonic with weights" which clearly is not the same was "isometric with weights" or "isotonic without weights". That means that layman associate weightlifting with isotonics done with free weights or weight machines rather than someone pulling against their own muscle in an isometic exercise or just using a weight to hold the muscle in a fixed but exerted position.

          The point isn't if they are correct in thinking this way, but is this what they had in mind or not when they used the term. You never did say that you thought that really Bruno or Tinsley were including all forms of weight training, including push-ups, when it was said that he had or hadn't done any.

          Dude got out of bed and stood up. bam, weight training, all summer long. XBox - bam, resistance training on his muscles....his finger, hand and wrist muscles, but still.


          Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number, especially considering the average joe wouldn't think of the square root of negative one when you said imaginary number anyway. They'd probably think "fake phone number".

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
            Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number (square root of -1).
            That's good stuff right there.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              Straw man.

              You are defending how terminology within the PT paradigm is used when the rest of us are talking about common man usage. That doesn't make it "right", and you can have a great chuckle at the next PT conference about the morons in the everyday world that think pushups are different than lifting weights, but it won't change the reality that laymen do use terms in a different way.

              If someone says their CPU was acting up I don't start a debate about how the central processing unit isn't the same as the entire computer and that even the on-chip cache isn't techincally the instruction processing section and is really just memory, etc, etc. If I did I'd get a blank "who gives a s***" look from them.

              A ball has weight and shooting it requires lifting it, moving the weight with muscles. Care to point out to Bruno or Tinsley that technically shooting is included in the term weightlifting and that there is no need to mention it twice when describing his off-season regimen?

              Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number (square root of -1).
              I've already acknowledged that I WAS NOT aware he didn't include a pushup as lifting weights, and said I wasted our time.

              I'll say it again: I did NOT know he wasn't including those types of exercies in weight training. I apologize for wasting your/my time.

              That's three times I've said it, twice in this thread. Quit harping about it.
              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                A pushup is a PRIME example of a isotonic exercise, because your body parts are moving against a force, I.E. weights or the floor.
                So a pushup is considered "lifting floor"......sweet...........
                PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

                  Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                  I've already acknowledged that I WAS NOT aware he didn't include a pushup as lifting weights, and said I wasted our time.

                  I'll say it again: I did NOT know he wasn't including those types of exercies in weight training. I apologize for wasting your/my time.

                  That's three times I've said it, twice in this thread. Quit harping about it.
                  I had nothing more to say about it till the "I guess my elite grad program is wrong" and the "obviously you don't understand the terms" responses, both of which implied that you were still defending the point.

                  I'm not sure what kind of response you were looking for when you made those posts, but to me they sounded rather arugmentative. Somehow I missed the point that by making those posts you were actually making a final concession about incorrectly using the literal definition rather than the common usage.

                  I will admit that I still don't understand how they meant that, but I will accept that they did with the misunderstanding lying squarely on me. I'm sorry to have belabored the point.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

                    I bet you've heard the phrase "you're never wrong, are you?", 86. Just drop it. You were wrong, and you're still bending.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

                      Weight training is a form of exercise for developing the strength and size of skeletal muscles.
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_training

                      A press up or push up is a common strength training exercise performed in a prone position
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_up

                      Thank you. Good day.
                      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

                        Not sure exactly what you proved there.

                        Seems like all of the people on the weight training page are using........weights.

                        The people on the push up page.....aren't.

                        Try this one.......
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calisthenics

                        calisthenics is a type of exercise consisting of a variety of simple movements usually performed without weights or other equipment...........

                        Examples of calisthenic exercises include:

                        Sit-ups/crunches
                        Push-ups
                        Squats
                        PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                        Comment


                        • Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

                          Originally posted by MagicRat View Post
                          Not sure exactly what you proved there.

                          Seems like all of the people on the weight training page are using........weights.

                          The people on the push up page.....aren't.

                          Try this one.......
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calisthenics

                          calisthenics is a type of exercise consisting of a variety of simple movements usually performed without weights or other equipment...........

                          Examples of calisthenic exercises include:

                          Sit-ups/crunches
                          Push-ups
                          Squats

                          Weight lifting isn't confined to plates, or dumbbells, and that's where it comes into play.

                          When you do a pushup, what are you doing exactly? You're extending your WEIGHT, up. Your body weight takes the place of plates and a bar when you do bench pressing.

                          It's the EXACT same movement, in terms of muscle contraction, but you can do more, more easily, on a bench.

                          A lat. pulldown is the EXACT same movement as a pullup, but with the machine you can pull down more weight.
                          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

                            Let. It. Go.

                            Please.

                            Not an admin comment, just an observer's comment. My god.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night

                              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                              Weight lifting isn't confined to plates, or dumbbells, and that's where it comes into play.

                              When you do a pushup, what are you doing exactly? You're extending your WEIGHT, up. Your body weight takes the place of plates and a bar when you do bench pressing.

                              It's the EXACT same movement, in terms of muscle contraction, but you can do more, more easily, on a bench.

                              A lat. pulldown is the EXACT same movement as a pullup, but with the machine you can pull down more weight.
                              I understand the movements.

                              If you want to call a pushup "lifting weight", go ahead. Can't call it "lifting weights", though, unless you stack some plates on your back. Sorry.
                              PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                              Comment


                              • Re: Johnny Davis is on WIBC right now

                                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                                Too much weight on a frame not intended can be unhealthy.

                                It was also reported that JO worked his total body this year, instead of just his upper body. That get's you in big trouble, and I'd lay money on it that it was a big reason for his lower body injuries.

                                .
                                I agree with you so much on this. I still blame the pacers medical staff, for trying to bulk up Bender to be something that his body wouldn't allow him to be which was a powerforward. Bender might have been a bust anyway but I have a hard time believing his chicken legs could support his upper body. Of course nobody can prove it he might have been injury prone reguardless but I can bet adding that wieght hurt him more then helped him.
                                Same goes for Oneal. Yes he had to add strenght but his game was always based on quickness and agility and he lost it in his quest to become stronger. Sometimes I think people get way to carried away about adding bulk. Everybody should lift whether its athletes or your average joe but to add wieght and lose your quickness and agility in my opinion is just counter productive.

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