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Thread: Being smart and lucky never hurts

  1. #1

    Post Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Maybe the Indiana Pacers were smarter than everybody else, smarter and more patient.

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  2. #2
    Member Alabama-Redneck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Looks like Bobby K got his feelings hurt a little bit. Too bad!!!


  3. #3

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    surprising coherent.

    Noteworthy that he had the chance to be a bit humble and say that he was wrong about the team making all the wrong moves and being headed for lottery land, but couldn't get the words into print. It probably didn't even occur to him to admit that he has ever been wrong or too quick to judge.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    I look at the article as another dig at the Pacers. They are clueless but lucky.
    Sorta like the broken clock that is right twice a day or the blind squirrel that
    finds a nut once in awhile. You get the idea. Give me Bill Benner any day.
    {o,o}
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    I look at the article as another dig at the Pacers. They are clueless but lucky. Sorta like the broken clock that is right twice a day or the blind squirrel that finds a nut once in awhile. You get the idea. Give me Bill Benner any day.
    There's a reason we call him the badger.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    I told myself I wasn't going to post any more on threads about Kravitz. But isn't this missing something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Kravitz
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    If you want to extrapolate back, this was essentially Ron Artest for Harrington. Follow the bouncing ball: Artest for Peja Stojakovic for a trade exception for Harrington.
    Isn't it more to the point to say it was Harrington and Jackson (and Edwards) for Artest?

    Edwards is nothing, but I think Kravitz' description fails to encompass the full brilliance of the Pacers' machinations. The Pacers got Jackson in exchange for lending Harrington to Atlanta for a couple of years, and then redeemed Harrington for the coupon we got from the hock shop where we cashed in Artest (damaged goods), and we got the shop to let us use their Cadillac for the rest of the season 'til we got ours back out of the shop.

    I don't like Jackson much, but I recognize the brilliance of the fact that right now the Pacers have him AND Harrington, while New Orleans and Sacramento have players we didn't want (at the prices) and Atlanta has a pick.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  7. #7

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Did he write that in his sleep?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Maybe it should be Artest & a 1st for Stephen Jackson.

    Does that make you sick?

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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Maybe it should be Artest & a 1st for Stephen Jackson.

    Does that make you sick?
    This seems more correct then Putnam's. How do you count Harrington as a gain if your starting from a position that included having Harrington.

  10. #10
    Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
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    Maybe it should be Artest & a 1st for Stephen Jackson.

    Does that make you sick?
    How about Artest+1st+years of misery for Stephen Jackson.

  11. #11
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    bob kravitz
    Being smart and lucky never hurts



    Maybe the Indiana Pacers were smarter than everybody else, smarter and more patient. Or maybe they were a little bit fortunate, getting the kinds of breaks this summer they haven't been getting in recent years.

    Probably -- and CEO Donnie Walsh would acknowledge this readily -- it was a little bit of both.
    The bottom line is, the Pacers got their man, Al Harrington, and immediately became a better, more likable, more entertaining team in the process.

    A championship team?

    No.

    But a better team? Absolutely.

    Especially given the price they paid, which wasn't much. If you want to extrapolate back, this was essentially Ron Artest for Harrington. Follow the bouncing ball: Artest for Peja Stojakovic for a trade exception for Harrington. All the Pacers lost was a lottery-protected first-round choice, a small price to pay for a potential double-double guy.

    They said they were going to blow up the team.

    They've blown up the team.

    Although it wouldn't break anybody's heart if there were a few more detonations, ones that moved Jamaal Tinsley to another locale and brought in a long-range shooter and another big body.

    They were smart. They were lucky. They were both.

    Consider the events that started this ball rolling:
    When the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets gave Stojakovic that nonsensical free agent contract, it was assumed the Pacers had lost Stojakovic for nothing, which, by extension, would have meant they lost Artest for nothing.

    Enter Pacers co-owner Herb Simon.

    See, Simon is friends with New Orleans owner George Shinn. Simon was on the expansion committee that helped Shinn move the Hornets to New Orleans, and Shinn hopes to have Simon's help if and when the Hornets decide to leave Hurricane Katrina-ravaged New Orleans.
    Shinn owed Simon a favor.

    So suddenly, the straight-up free agent signing became one of the most unusual sign-and-trades in league history. The Pacers sent Stojakovic and $200,000 to the Hornets for a $7.5 million trade exception and a stiff who will never put on an Indiana uniform.

    Shinn not only wanted to do right by Simon, but the Hornets wanted to give the Pacers the ability to acquire Harrington and keep him out of the Western Conference.

    Think that one raised some eyebrows through the league?

    It was, however, a stroke of genius. Without it, the Pacers would have been left not only holding the bag, but playing the bag significant minutes at small forward.

    If I'm the Pacers, Shinn is getting voted a playoff share.
    With that giant credit slip in hand, the Pacers got smart/lucky again when they turned their gaze to Harrington.

    They counted on two things:
    First, they knew the Hawks, who are hemorrhaging cash, had no interest in any sign-and-trade that would make them take on salaries.
    Second, they knew, or came to know, that Harrington's options were more limited than he originally believed. While Harrington said he thought a six-year deal was waiting for him -- "That's what I was being told from the beginning," he said Thursday -- the Pacers saw that the only teams still under the salary cap were unlikely to make a run at him.

    There's some dispute over whether there ever was a deal on the table for six years, $57 million. Certainly that was Harrington's understanding. Walsh reiterated Thursday that wasn't the case, that the six-year numbers were merely extrapolations computed by the agents who wanted to drive the price higher, and that the four-year deal worth $36 million was what the Pacers were willing to pay all along.

    Whatever.

    The Pacers got their guy and they got him at their price.
    And to think, the Hawks were this close to sending Harrington to Golden State in a trade that would have included Denver and the Clippers.
    How would that have tasted?

    "We were ready to go somewhere else,'' Harrington said. "But I'm glad it happened this way. This is where I wanted to be all along, and I think everybody knew that. The contract isn't exactly what I was looking for, but looking at it as a business, this was my only option. And it's fair. If you don't have to go six years, there's no reason to. And I think a four-year deal will be better for me, anyway. I'll become a free agent when I'm still in the prime of my career."

    Now it's up to Rick Carlisle to show he can coach an up-tempo team. It's up to Jermaine O'Neal to return to his old form as one of the top 10 players in the league. It's up to Tinsley to stay healthy for more than half a season. And so on.

    Finally, the long-awaited puff of white smoke has been spotted over Conseco Fieldhouse. How the Pacers got Harrington -- the brilliant strategies, the lucky breaks, the palace intrigue -- hardly seem to matter now. Grown-up Al is here, and this time, he's staying.


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  12. #12

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Hey RoboHicks, can you please post the entire article as Bball has when you start these threads. Thanks.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    It's Artest and a 1st for Harrington, Jackson has nothing to do with this chain. We traded Al for him, and now we got Al back through the chain I just mentioned.

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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by bulletproof View Post
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    Hey RoboHicks, can you please post the entire article as Bball has when you start these threads. Thanks.
    Doesn't work that way with RSS feeds.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    It's Artest and a 1st for Harrington, Jackson has nothing to do with this chain. We traded Al for him, and now we got Al back through the chain I just mentioned.
    We made out big then, because I would have traded Ron and a first for a lump of coal.

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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It's Artest and a 1st for Harrington, Jackson has nothing to do with this chain. We traded Al for him, and now we got Al back through the chain I just mentioned.
    It all depends on where you want to place the starting line.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool View Post
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    It all depends on where you want to place the starting line.

    Right. I suppose mine is arbitrary, too. You could take it back to Jalen, or further back than that.

    If you look at it literally/legally/sequentially you get one interpretation. But if you accept "Harrington for Artest" as the fundamental change, then you've still got the marvel at the fact that Sacramento gave us 41 games worth of Peja Stojakovic, just to tide us over until Harrington was ready to come home.

    I gotta say that the "Artest and a 1st round pick for Jackson" interpretation makes me want to go out and mow my lawn.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  18. #18
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    It probably didn't even occur to him to admit that he has ever been wrong or too quick to judge.
    Kravitz would feel right at home on this board. In the last month posters on here have acted like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    For those of you that have never seen a chicken get it's head cut off they flip and flop around for a good ten seconds afterwards.

    On here people flip and flop around after every new Internet rumor.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    It probably didn't even occur to him to admit that he has ever been wrong or too quick to judge.
    Kravitz would feel right at home on this board. In the last month posters on here have acted like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    For those of you that have never seen a chicken get it's head cut off they flip and flop around for a good ten seconds afterwards.

    On here people flip and flop around after every new Internet rumor.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Kravitz would feel right at home on this board. In the last month posters on here have acted like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    For those of you that have never seen a chicken get it's head cut off they flip and flop around for a good ten seconds afterwards.

    On here people flip and flop around after every new Internet rumor.
    You can say that again!

  21. #21
    Member The Hustler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Kravitz would feel right at home on this board. In the last month posters on here have acted like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    For those of you that have never seen a chicken get it's head cut off they flip and flop around for a good ten seconds afterwards.

    On here people flip and flop around after every new Internet rumor.
    QFT

    but at least its interesting!
    'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.'
    Animal Farm, by George Orwell

  22. #22
    Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Kravitz would feel right at home on this board. In the last month posters on here have acted like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    For those of you that have never seen a chicken get it's head cut off they flip and flop around for a good ten seconds afterwards.

    On here people flip and flop around after every new Internet rumor.
    It's a friggin internet board. If people didn't react to internet rumors there would be nothing to say, particularly during the summer. Not every thread can be one of thunderbirds four-page breakdowns of the triangle offense.

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    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    I think Kravitz does have a point about Indiana being smart and lucky, in that they were able to pry the trade exception from the Hornets and that Atlanta were not willing to take on contracts.

    What separates the Pacers from most other teams, is that they recognised these areas and ran the organisation like a business. Chad Ford's article on espn insider mentioned some of these points in justifying why the Harrington acquisition was the best off-season signing of the summer.

    Kravitz just seems so negative in his comments, that it can be actually quite depressing to read. I am also surprised when he made reference to the four-way trade, where its flaws were highly apparent for each of the respective teams (I mean the Clippers taking Dunleavys contracts with Donald Sterling as their owner).

    Oh well, like Kravitz says, none of this matters anymore because the pacers got their man .

  24. #24

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozpacer View Post
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    I think Kravitz does have a point about Indiana being smart and lucky, in that they were able to pry the trade exception from the Hornets and that Atlanta were not willing to take on contracts.

    What separates the Pacers from most other teams, is that they recognised these areas and ran the organisation like a business. Chad Ford's article on espn insider mentioned some of these points in justifying why the Harrington acquisition was the best off-season signing of the summer.

    Kravitz just seems so negative in his comments, that it can be actually quite depressing to read. I am also surprised when he made reference to the four-way trade, where its flaws were highly apparent for each of the respective teams (I mean the Clippers taking Dunleavys contracts with Donald Sterling as their owner).

    Oh well, like Kravitz says, none of this matters anymore because the pacers got their man .
    I wonder if Kravitz has ever heard the saying, "Luck favors the prepared."

  25. #25

    Default Re: Being smart and lucky never hurts

    I was waiting for a Kravitz's article after we finally get Al, and this is what he has to say. He needs to , how do you say?, "eat crow". Donnie and co. are looking so golden right now , it isn't funny. Every GM in the league will give them props. Kravitz knows this he just can't admit it yet. Becuase of his last two or three articles slamming of the Pacers, he has to let some time pass just to save face. He is fustrating, IMO, but I always read his stuff for some reason.

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