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Thread: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    There are very few players Foster actually matches up with. It just happens that one of those is considered the leagues best PF.
    I knew I should not have gotten involved in this thread, I tried to stay out of it as long as I could.

    OK, I went down the list of the top 30 scorers from last season. First thing I noticed is how few of them are over 6'8". The only guy over 6'8" on the list that I don't want Jeff guarding, the only guy Jeff does not defend well is Shaq.

    In no particular order:

    - A. Walker - Jeff defends very well, very , very well
    - Lamar Odom - Jeff also does very very well on him.
    - Kevin Garnett - I've always thought defends him well, he's a great player. I'd put Jeff on him as does Rick
    - Duncan - Jeff defends him rather well also
    - Dirk - I have no problems putting Jeff on him, Dirk is more of a team thing, but Jeff does well guarding him
    - Gasol - No problem
    - Brand - Average
    - Jamison - He's a strange player with very unorthodox moves. Jeff's done OK on him.

    Let me say this. If I were Pacers coach I'd put Jeff on all of those players, and I wouldn't want JO to guard any of them. Even taking out the fact you don't want JO to get into foul trouble, and taking out the fact that JO is a much better help defender than Jeff, I believe Jeff guards each and everyone of those players better than JO.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204 View Post
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    I'd rather go the other direction - name some one-dimensional players that are championship-caliber role players.

    I can only think of one - Ben Wallace. IMO, Rodman was much more versatile but made a conscious effort to focus on just two or three things.

    In other words, if you've got a one-dimensional role player they pretty much need to be the very best in the league at doing what they do (if not one of the very best of all time at doing what they do.)

    Joe Smith, Derrick McKey, Ron Harper, and Danny Manning are great examples of what I want a role player to be. Guys that can do it all but make sacrifices. Even Danny Ferry and Steve Kerr fit that bill, as younger players against less-athletic competition they could 'do it all'.

    Hell, look at Miami's role players this season. Walker - for all his annoying-ness, is very, very versatile. I've thought Posey was a poor-man's Derrick McKey since his days in Denver. He doesn't do any one thing great, and his primary job is toughness and defense, but he can do many other things. Gary Payton was really just a role player at this stage of his career. And the DWade fans would even argue that Shaq was nothing more than a role player at this stage of his career, too. And yes, it took a motivational master like Pat Riley to get them all to accept their roles.

    The difference is, when you take a player like Ron Harper and force him out of his "role", he is not a liability to his team. He could score in bunches if he wanted to, and proved it in Cleveland and LA, but in Chicago he was most famous for his defense.

    As we've seen Detroit do to Foster many teams, he can be 'gameplanned' right out of a playoff series whenever they wanted to. How can you 'gameplan' a role player off the court? Exploit the fact that they are one dimensional.

    If you heard me out, I realize I didn't answer your question. I don't have a list of (current) big-man role players on the top of my head. I'd have to watch some games. But I'm happy to revisit this discussion during the season.
    You'd rather go the other direction because you can't think of any to answer my question. biggrin JK.

    Well I don't consider Wallace or Rodman role players. Both were legit starters on any team while I can't say that Foster is a legit starter on every team. (not saying he isn't a good one though.)

    IMO Foster has 3 skills and that is hustling, rebounding, and defending. You mention Miami's role players but look at who thsoe guys are playing with and playing for. Same goes for Harper. Their jobs were much easier than Foster's. Harper didn't ever have to score because he had MJ and Pippen, he could just focus on defense as you said. But with Jermaine and Stephen Jackson people want Jeff to score.

    I don't think that Smith or Manning would do any better than Foster atleast at those 3 things I mentioned above. Are they more polished offenseively? Yes but i'll take Jeff and what he gives us over those 2 any day. (well when Smith and Manning were scoring 20 per game i'd take em over Jeff but you know what I meant.)

    I understand that you feel that Jeff is one dimensional and can easily be taken out of games....I don't feel that way though. I actually love Jeff because he can be effective without the ball. I love having players like that because i'm a big believer in team balance.

    Again I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think that Jeff is one dimensional and that's where I disagree with you. I think that Jeff can easily be a "championship role player" if he was on a championship team. And if we were winning a championship this question would not have been asked IMO. But Jeff's lack of offenseive skill has not kept this team from winning a championship.

  3. #53
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I knew I should not have gotten involved in this thread, I tried to stay out of it as long as I could.
    This is why my biggest contribution was a photo of Harrington hailing a cab in front of Conseco.

    I do see Jay and Since86's points, I just think they are overstating Jeff's defiencies and undervaluing his positives. He actually plays some pretty decent interior movement offense, as shown when he and Pollard both got it going mid-season while healthy.

  4. #54
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    But Jeff's lack of offenseive skill has not kept this team from winning a championship.


    Sorry, I just can't resist...

    Jeff's lack of offense causes JO to get constantly double-teamed by two "bigs."

    JO's double-teams cause (1) a stagnant offense and (2) additional wear and tear and injuries to JO

    JO's injuries and a stagnant offense keep this team from winning a championship.

    See, I got there in just three steps. Can anybody get there faster?

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  5. #55
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204 View Post
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    Sorry, I just can't resist...

    Jeff's lack of offense causes JO to get constantly double-teamed by two "bigs."

    JO's double-teams cause (1) a stagnant offense and (2) additional wear and tear and injuries to JO

    JO's injuries and a stagnant offense keep this team from winning a championship.

    See, I got there in just three steps. Can anybody get there faster?

    Jay, Jay, Jay. What are we going to do with you?

    JO will be paired with Al in the frontcourt, and probably Danny at SF, making it virtually impossible for the opponent to double-team any of them. Each of those guys can hit jumpers out to 18-20 feet on a regular basis.

    I got there in ONE step. I think I got there faster, don't you? [Even if I didn't address Jeff's lack of offense.]

  6. #56
    Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I knew I should not have gotten involved in this thread, I tried to stay out of it as long as I could.

    OK, I went down the list of the top 30 scorers from last season. First thing I noticed is how few of them are over 6'8". The only guy over 6'8" on the list that I don't want Jeff guarding, the only guy Jeff does not defend well is Shaq.

    In no particular order:

    - A. Walker - Jeff defends very well, very , very well
    - Lamar Odom - Jeff also does very very well on him.
    - Kevin Garnett - I've always thought defends him well, he's a great player. I'd put Jeff on him as does Rick
    - Duncan - Jeff defends him rather well also
    - Dirk - I have no problems putting Jeff on him, Dirk is more of a team thing, but Jeff does well guarding him
    - Gasol - No problem
    - Brand - Average
    - Jamison - He's a strange player with very unorthodox moves. Jeff's done OK on him.

    Let me say this. If I were Pacers coach I'd put Jeff on all of those players, and I wouldn't want JO to guard any of them. Even taking out the fact you don't want JO to get into foul trouble, and taking out the fact that JO is a much better help defender than Jeff, I believe Jeff guards each and everyone of those players better than JO.


    And, let me just add myself to the growing "Jay is being ridiculous" bandwagon. Our current list of silly statements:
    A) For a role player to be effective, he has to have skills outside of that role, and then not use them. Basket-weaving counts.
    B) Jeff Foster is the reason we haven't won a championship.
    C) There are two, and only two, dimensions to basketball, thus making 90% of NBA players one-dimensional.

    Stop digging yourself into a ditch, man...

  7. #57

    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204 View Post
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    Sorry, I just can't resist...

    Jeff's lack of offense causes JO to get constantly double-teamed by two "bigs."

    JO's double-teams cause (1) a stagnant offense and (2) additional wear and tear and injuries to JO

    JO's injuries and a stagnant offense keep this team from winning a championship.

    See, I got there in just three steps. Can anybody get there faster?

    Don't be sorry long arguments are fun haha.

    But I have just one question to ask you. Do you think that if Jeff could hit a 15 footer, would this team be a championship caliber team?

    IMO no. There are way more problems than Jeff's lack of offense.

  8. #58
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    Yes, I was clearly being tongue-in-cheek on that one.

    Although I think if Jeff could hit a fifteen-footer and make the defense "stay honest" this team would have still been a conference-finals caliber team. Obviously a healthy and competent PG that can defend is a much bigger need. Not just for the Pacers, but about 20 other teams, too.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  9. #59
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    Default Re: Why Hasnít Foster Developed Offensive Game? Q.O.D 8-14-06

    I'm at a loss that people actually think Foster is a good one-on-one defender.......

    Helpside, he's great. But when he's isolated, he's D-U-N done. He's to weak phsyically, to bang, which is the reason JO is forced to do it. And his lateral quickness isn't very good.

    Dirk put up 31 and 23, in his two games this season. Foster played almost double the amount in the 31pt game. (The box scores are gone for previous years)

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