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Thread: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    http://www3.realgm.com/src_feature/6..._point_guards/

    The NBA’s Top Point Guards
    6th August, 2006 - 11:10 pm
    By Aaron Bronsteter

    A basketball team without a point guard is like an airplane without a pilot. Someone needs to get the plane up in the air, just like someone needs to lead the break up the court. While the world’s best airplane pilots are anyone’s guess, we have statistics, highlight reels and All-NBA Teams to prove who the best point guards are in the NBA.

    10) Sam Cassell – Los Angeles Clippers

    Players get older, they start to break down and they become a shell of their former self at around age 35, but don’t tell Sam Cassell that, because at almost 37 years of age, his 17.2 points-per-game and 6.3 assists-per-game will beg to differ.

    Cassell did what no other point guard had done in 30 years; pilot the Clippers beyond the first round of the playoffs. Trading Marko Jaric for Cassell may be one of the most lopsided trades in a very long time.

    The Clippers have so much faith in their elder statesman that they re-signed him for an additional two years in hopes that the Clippers can stay out of the NBA Lottery.

    Choosing between Cassell and Baron Davis was a tough decision, but if we’re talking about who I would want on my team right now, with health and attitude questions in the mix, I’d take Cassell for this coming year.

    9) Kirk Hinrich – Chicago Bulls

    Statistically, Kirk Hinrich does not rank above Cassell, but unfortunately, the intangibles that Hinrich brings to his team cannot be measured numerically.

    Hinrich is a force on both ends of the floor and averaged 6.4 assists-per-game despite often manning the shooting guard spot when playing alongside Chris Duhon. Bulls coach Scott Skiles once called Hinrich the team’s best player and don’t think that he didn’t mean it.

    The Bulls had a great offseason by landing Ben Wallace in free agency and drafting Tyrus Thomas and Swiss stud Thabo Sefolosha. But don’t for a second think that this team’s success is not contingent on the play of Hinrich, because you will only be fooling yourself.

    8) Mike Bibby – Sacramento Kings

    The Kings had a reformation year in 2005-2006, but someone forgot to tell Mike Bibby who averaged a career high 21.1 points-per-game; the first time that he had broken the 20 point barrier.

    With the unpredictability of Ron Artest, this team will look to Bibby for leadership and he will be expected to provide it. With Peja Stojakovic and Chris Webber being sent off, it is clear that Kings management is looking to Bibby as its franchise player.

    Even with the team being restructured, they were still able to make the playoffs and challenge the Spurs, but this team will only go as far as Bibby takes them.

    7) Jason Kidd – New Jersey Nets

    Who would have ever thought that they would see Jason Kidd as number seven on a list of the league’s top point guards? But let’s face the facts, Kidd has slowed down at age 33. But even with his slowing down, Kidd is still a dynamic player who hooks his players up whenever he has the opportunity and is a true leader on the floor.

    The next two years will define how Kidd is remembered, as he has a stellar supporting cast consisting of Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson in the league’s most superstar-laden backcourt.

    With nine triple doubles this past season, Kidd remains the same threat that he always has. But after missing his first all-star game in a long while, Kidd’s career is showing signs of definite wear and tear.

    6) Chris Paul – New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets

    In his first NBA season, Chris Paul proved that he was the real deal after he fell to fourth pick in the NBA Draft and was selected one pick behind a point guard that will aspire to one day be as good as Paul was in his rookie season.

    If Paul keeps it up, there is no doubt that he will be an all-star next year. In fact, there’s no way that he should have been left off of the team this past year after single-handedly making the rebuilding Hornets a consistent playoff threat in the stacked Western Conference all season long.

    With the additions of Peja Stojakovic and Tyson Chandler, Paul will have a lot more to work with in the coming season, but there is absolutely no doubt that Paul has the potential to be the league’s best point guard in a few years from now.

    5) Gilbert Arenas – Washington Wizards

    At the rate that Gilbert Arenas improves year after year, he’s bound to burst into flames in a few years. This past year, Arenas stepped up his scoring game from 25.5 points-per-game, his previous career best, to 29.3 points-per-game.

    While Arenas was unable to lead the Wizards past LeBron and the Cavaliers in the playoffs, he showed why he was All-NBA Third Team calibre with his ability to score on absolutely anybody. Arenas also showed that he was the real deal in the post-season, averaging 34 points-per-game during the team’s series with the Cavs.

    All of this comes from a player who was drafted in the second round of the NBA draft.

    4) Tony Parker – San Antonio Spurs

    When you look at field goal percentage, one would expect that big men have a huge advantage over guards and that is usually the case. This year’s top-two players in terms of field goal percentage are Shaquille O’Neal and Eddy Curry, one of whom is over 300 pounds and the other is close. But who is the player with the third highest field goal percentage? The answer is Tony Parker. In fact, for much of the season, Parker lead the league in points in the paint, a statistic usually reserved for big centers to show that they can dominate inside.

    On the topic of field goal percentage, if you only look at point guards, the only two names who register at above fifty per cent from the field: Parker (54.8%) and Nash (51.2%). If you exclude Nash from this list (which would be ludicrous), Parker’s percentage is more than ten per cent higher than any other point guard.

    Parker’s ability to score baskets in the paint show how unique he is compared to any other point guard in NBA history. At 6’2” and 177 pounds, Parker weaves his way through opposing defenders like a NASCAR driver would be able to weave an economy vehicle through pylons. If that’s not enough to convince you that Parker is a top-5 point guard, he also managed to lead his team to the best record in a stacked Western Conference.

    3) Allen Iverson – Philadelphia 76ers

    Every year people say that Iverson will slow down and decline and every year he proves them wrong. This past season was no exception as Iverson posted averages of 33 points-per-game (second highest in the NBA) paired with 7.4 assists-per-game.

    Despite rumors of being dealt in the offseason, Iverson is still the franchise player for the 76ers and general manager Billy King has declared “The Answer” to be off the market.

    The 76ers failed to make the playoffs this past year and with few offseason moves, the same fate appears to await them once again unless King can muster some sort of miracle that actually puts quality players around Iverson. Either way, Iverson continues to remain in his prime, entering the 2006-2007 season at age 31 with no signs of slowing down.

    2) Chauncey Billups – Detroit Pistons

    Chauncey Billups or “Mr. Big Shot” had a breakout season at age 29 during his tenth NBA season. Billups shattered his previous points-per-game record with 18.5 points-per-game (previously 16.9 ppg) and 8.6 assists-per-game (previously 5.8 apg).

    Billups was an early contender for the MVP award as he lead the Pistons to their best record in franchise history and head-to-head with Steve Nash statistically, he comes very close.

    For Billups to be able to improve his statistics to such an extent, while keeping the rest of his team’s on par is a great feat for any point guard to accomplish.

    1) Steve Nash – Phoenix Suns

    Overrated or simply underappreciated? For the past two years, sceptics have denied Steve Nash of MVP legitimacy, saying that there are better choices out there. After 2004-2005, few could muster superior candidates for the award, but with LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Billups and Arenas having breakout years in 2005-2006, Nash’s back-to-back win was highly contentious.

    But here is some food for thought: career highs in points-per-game, field goal and free throw percentage, minutes-per-game and rebounds-per-game and only eight fewer wins than the previous year when they had a healthy Amare Stoudemire for 80 games rather than three. Oh and one more thing, Nash is 32 years of age.

    The voters have spoken and while many can contend whether or not Nash is the best player in the league, I doubt that anyone in their right mind will argue that he is not currently the league’s finest point guard.

    Just missed the cut: Baron Davis (Golden State Warriors ), Jason Terry (Dallas Mavericks ), Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks )

    Names for the future: Raymond Felton (Charlotte Bobcats ), T.J. Ford (Toronto Raptors ), Luke Ridnour (Seattle Sonics), Randy Foye (Minnesota Timberwolves )
    -----------------------------------------

    I thought it would be interesting to compare what he thinks with the polls Hicks is running here on the Digest.

    Hicks Poll.........................Aaron Bronsteter

    #1 Steve Nash.................Steve Nash
    #2 Allen Iverson...............Chauncey Billups
    #3 Gilbert Arenas.............Allen Iverson
    #4 Chris Paul..................Tony Parker
    #5 Chauncey Billups.........Gilbert Arenas
    #6 Jason Kidd.................Chris Paul
    #7 Tony Parker...............Jason Kidd
    #8 Kirk Hinrich................Mike Bibby
    #9 Jason Terry................Kirk Hinrich
    #10 Mike Bibby...............Sam Cassell
    #11 Sam Cassell
    #12 Baron Davis
    #13 Andre Miller
    #14 Stephon Marbury
    #15 Steve Francis
    #16 Mike James
    #17 Jamaal Tinsley

    I just got the idea after looking at the two lists that you can take the Digest list and most hard core fans will agree with where a player is on the list within 5 places. Of course there would be some bias in our Digest list but if you took a list from each teams best forum and added them together I think it would be accurate.

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    4) Tony Parker – San Antonio Spurs

    When you look at field goal percentage, one would expect that big men have a huge advantage over guards and that is usually the case. This year’s top-two players in terms of field goal percentage are Shaquille O’Neal and Eddy Curry, one of whom is over 300 pounds and the other is close. But who is the player with the third highest field goal percentage? The answer is Tony Parker. In fact, for much of the season, Parker lead the league in points in the paint, a statistic usually reserved for big centers to show that they can dominate inside.

    On the topic of field goal percentage, if you only look at point guards, the only two names who register at above fifty per cent from the field: Parker (54.8%) and Nash (51.2%). If you exclude Nash from this list (which would be ludicrous), Parker’s percentage is more than ten per cent higher than any other point guard.

    Parker’s ability to score baskets in the paint show how unique he is compared to any other point guard in NBA history. At 6’2” and 177 pounds, Parker weaves his way through opposing defenders like a NASCAR driver would be able to weave an economy vehicle through pylons. If that’s not enough to convince you that Parker is a top-5 point guard, he also managed to lead his team to the best record in a stacked Western Conference.
    Thanks Will. Decent list. I think that the Top 8 or so are pretty much unanimous for most real NBA heads, and the order is mostly due to whether you more highly value the Iverson/Arenas type of point or the Nash/Kidd/Paul style.

    As for scoring a lot of "Points in the Paint", I heard this about both Tony and DWade all season long and tried to find a "league leaders" stat sheet with this number on multiple occasions. No luck.

    Anyone know a site that has this stat? I'm pretty interested.
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    I don't think Tony Parker is a Top 5 PG. He's a SG in a PG's body.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    I don't think Tony Parker is a Top 5 PG. He's a SG in a PG's body.
    So is Iverson, but they're both really good.

    As another poster mentioned, it's about whether you only value Steve Nash/Chris Paul type traditional point guards, or the Allen Iverson type. And actually, the more I think about it, with his penetrating and distribution Tony is pretty traditional.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    :cough:

    :gill:
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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
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    So is Iverson, but they're both really good.

    As another poster mentioned, it's about whether you only value Steve Nash/Chris Paul type traditional point guards, or the Allen Iverson type. And actually, the more I think about it, with his penetrating and distribution Tony is pretty traditional.
    I agree. Tony is more Stockton than Iverson.
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Anyone know a site that has this stat? I'm pretty interested.
    The closest thing I can find is in 82games.com.

    http://www.82games.com/scorers.htm

    You can't sort the columns....but if you look at the "close" columns....it denotes the number of points scored "up close"....which I guess could also refer to "in the paint".

    It doesn't specify whether those points are scored on "drives to the hoop" or "sit in the paint / low-post scoring"....but it does tell you that he's the top PG that scores those type of points...and in the top 5 when it comes to scoring like that...compared to the rest of the league.
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    I don't think Tony Parker is a Top 5 PG. He's a SG in a PG's body.


    You could easily argue that half of the names on the list aren't point guards either.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You could easily argue that half of the names on the list aren't point guards either.
    Except TP is one of the few who are.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Tony Parker - a guy most famous for being that Desperate Housewives womans boyfriend and riding Tim Duncans jock. Doesnt play a lick of defense and his leadership skills are non-existant. Still a great penetrator and good scorer.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen View Post
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    Tony Parker - a guy most famous for being that Desperate Housewives womans boyfriend and riding Tim Duncans jock. Doesnt play a lick of defense and his leadership skills are non-existant. Still a great penetrator and good scorer.
    Can't resist. Are we talking Desperate Housewives or basketball?

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The closest thing I can find is in 82games.com.

    http://www.82games.com/scorers.htm

    You can't sort the columns....but if you look at the "close" columns....it denotes the number of points scored "up close"....which I guess could also refer to "in the paint".

    It doesn't specify whether those points are scored on "drives to the hoop" or "sit in the paint / low-post scoring"....but it does tell you that he's the top PG that scores those type of points...and in the top 5 when it comes to scoring like that...compared to the rest of the league.
    Thanks. 82games is probably my favorite bball site, but I hadn't seen this feature.

    Even more interesting than the "Close" numbers, though, are the 2PT FG%. It's amazing that KG was BY FAR the most accurate (non-3PT) jump shooter in the league, even taking many more shots than Ray Allen or Steve Nash. Even Rip is 5% worse on a similar number or attempts. This really does go a long way to prove to me that JO really is just the poor-man's Garnett.

    What's also crazy is that Tim Duncan only hit 36% of his jumpers. It sure does seem like he makes about 80% of the ones that count though. Not sure if this is just a failure of my perception or if he really does pull an MJ and just will them in when his team needs a bucket.
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by sig View Post
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    Can't resist. Are we talking Desperate Housewives or basketball?

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You could easily argue that half of the names on the list aren't point guards either.

    Not picking on you Buck, but I've never understood that argument because it doesn't make sense. If a guy plays point guard, he's a point guard, etc. etc.

    Now if the argument is he's not a very good point guard, or he's a better shooting guard, I have no quibble because that's understandable. However saying a guy isn't something when he obviously is just wrong.

    Another pet peeve, is people saying they are agreeing to disagree after a long debate. Think about it, all they are doing is disagreeing. They don't have to agree to disagree, they already do. What they are really doing is agreeing to quit debating the subject.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen View Post
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    Tony Parker - a guy most famous for being that Desperate Housewives womans boyfriend and riding Tim Duncans jock. Doesnt play a lick of defense and his leadership skills are non-existant. Still a great penetrator and good scorer.
    This isn't really true. In what was mostly an off year for Duncan, TP stepped up and had the best season of his career. Sure, he isn't the biggest star on the team, but he wins games for them and is probably the second best player on the team. Also, even though he is small and isn't a dominating defender, it's pretty silly to say that he doesn't play defense at all. And as to leadership, teams he's been at the helm at have won two championships. Who else on this list can say that?

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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Not picking on you Buck, but I've never understood that argument because it doesn't make sense. If a guy plays point guard, he's a point guard, etc. etc.

    Now if the argument is he's not a very good point guard, or he's a better shooting guard, I have no quibble because that's understandable. However saying a guy isn't something when he obviously is just wrong.

    Another pet peeve, is people saying they are agreeing to disagree after a long debate. Think about it, all they are doing is disagreeing. They don't have to agree to disagree, they already do. What they are really doing is agreeing to quit debating the subject.
    I think what Buck, and all of us mean by "true" or "pure" point guard is someone whose role is to set up the offense and get the ball to his teammates in the best position for them to score.

    Naturally, when you are the best scorer on your team and also happen to be the point guard, you need to play a little differently. Namely, you need to understand that the best position for your team to score is by you scoring, whether that be by penetrating or taking jumpers.

    With Iverson and Arenas and, generally, Marbury, this is clearly the case. Why would Iverson spend his time trying to set up Kyle Korver when he can score much easier by penetrating himself? Same with Gil.

    And that's fine. But the idea of a perimeter player scoring himself rather than setting someone else up has forever been associated with 2s and 3s, not PGs. Some people dislike that. Some want "traditional" basketball.

    I believe that that is nonsense, mostly. But I also know that Ivy made the Finals in a year when Eric Snow played the point. And I think Gil would surely be better for an offense if he didn't have to labor himself dribbling the ball up the court. That's what the little guys who can't score are for, not the guys with 30 ppg scoring potential.

    Based on that last statement, I imagine you can see that I'm clearly someone who prefers to have a Kidd/Paul/Nash style of PG to an Iverson/Arenas/Marbury type. Like I said, it's all about preference at this point. And if there isn't another perimeter scorer on my team, I'll take Iverson over Kidd any time.

    But you can't argue "Who's better, Kidd vs. Iverson?" anymore than you can David Robinson vs. Clyde Drexler. They are just two different types of players, both equally, yet differently, gifted.
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Not picking on you Buck, but I've never understood that argument because it doesn't make sense. If a guy plays point guard, he's a point guard, etc. etc.

    Now if the argument is he's not a very good point guard, or he's a better shooting guard, I have no quibble because that's understandable. However saying a guy isn't something when he obviously is just wrong.
    You've got an odd definition of "obviously".

    For example, just because the PA or television announcer says that Allen Iverson or Marberry is a PG when you can watch the games and see that it is obvious that neither player is actually playing PG does not mean that Iverson and Marberry are PGs.

    It seems to me you're really saying, "if the announcer/ writer says they're a point guard then they're really a PG." Many of us can see that is obviously not true.

    Jermaine O'Neal has been playing C for the Pacers since Brad Miller was traded. NOT Jeff Foster.
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204 View Post
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    You've got an odd definition of "obviously".

    For example, just because the PA or television announcer says that Allen Iverson or Marberry is a PG when you can watch the games and see that it is obvious that neither player is actually playing PG does not mean that Iverson and Marberry are PGs.

    It seems to me you're really saying, "if the announcer/ writer says they're a point guard then they're really a PG." Many of us can see that is obviously not true.

    Jermaine O'Neal has been playing C for the Pacers since Brad Miller was traded. NOT Jeff Foster.
    Obviously, (grin) but so what?

    Why do you always seem to miss my points Jay? (grinning)

    I'll put it another way. Say the Pacers have an even worse season than the two we're just gone though and Jax has to play power forward for the year. Yeah I know that's a stupid concept, and it has no chance in happening, but I'm exaggerating badly here so even you can get the point. (giggle,giggle,snort)

    The point is Jax is playing power forward so by definition that's what he is. Saying he's not a power forward is wrong, because he's playing power forward.

    Someone saying he's not a power forward just aren't saying what they mean. They could mean he's to little, or doesn't weight enough, or isn't strong enough, or doesn't belong there. However, he would still be the power forward of the Pacers, so it's dumb to say he's not.

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    But he wouldn't be a power forward.

    He'd be a shooting guard playing out of position.

    There's a difference.

    Isn't that obvious?

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    I think that's spelled oblivious. (Giggle, giggle, snort)

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Not picking on you Buck, but I've never understood that argument because it doesn't make sense. If a guy plays point guard, he's a point guard, etc. etc.

    Now if the argument is he's not a very good point guard, or he's a better shooting guard, I have no quibble because that's understandable. However saying a guy isn't something when he obviously is just wrong.

    Another pet peeve, is people saying they are agreeing to disagree after a long debate. Think about it, all they are doing is disagreeing. They don't have to agree to disagree, they already do. What they are really doing is agreeing to quit debating the subject.


    I agree with you completely, my post was in response to 3rdStrike who was saying that Parker is a shooting guard in a point guard body, I was trying to make the same point you are making here

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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    mike james has had what, one solid year in his career and yet is in front of tinsley. can't believe the pure disdain most of you have for tinsley.

  23. #23

    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    I don't see Tony Parker as a great distributor, though. Say what you will about Iverson's game, the man had 7.4 assists per game last year with only one other good player on his team (and C Webb passes a lot, too). Tony Parker had 5.8 APG with what was supposed to be the deepest roster in the conference.

    Parker isn't a bad PG, but he has no range, plays poor defense and other than layups he does nothing exceptionally well. Overrated, for now. But he's young enough that I expect he'll get better.

  24. #24
    Order more copier toner. Haggard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    mike james has had what, one solid year in his career and yet is in front of tinsley. can't believe the pure disdain most of you have for tinsley.

    We haven't had a 'solid year' out of Tinsley for some time.
    Haggard's Blog: Can't Buy a Basket. Covering the highs and lows of the NBL

  25. #25

    Default Re: The NBA’s Top Point Guards-another list.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    I don't see Tony Parker as a great distributor, though. Say what you will about Iverson's game, the man had 7.4 assists per game last year with only one other good player on his team (and C Webb passes a lot, too). Tony Parker had 5.8 APG with what was supposed to be the deepest roster in the conference.

    Parker isn't a bad PG, but he has no range, plays poor defense and other than layups he does nothing exceptionally well. Overrated, for now. But he's young enough that I expect he'll get better.
    Thank you. I'd go as far to say a healthy Tinsley is marginally better than a healthy Parker, but that's too many hypotheticals.

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