Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42

Thread: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

  1. #1
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,810

    Default SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Sean Deveney's SportingBlog
    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=113454

    Pacers don't fit in new NBA
    August 1, 2006

    For the past 15 years, the problem for the Pacers has been one of a very good team unable to be great. They've been to the playoffs 16 times since 1990 but played in only one Finals. Heading into last season -- and the season before -- it seemed the Pacers had the talent and the motivation to break that good-but-not-great voodoo. Until, at least, the antics of Ron Artest squashed the hopes of each of the last two Pacers teams before the Christmas shopping season got rolling.

    It could be the curse of Zan Tabak. You may remember, Tabak was a little-used center on the Pacers' Finals team in 2000. I remember during a media session after a practice at Conseco Fieldhouse, Biff Henderson, a producer for David Letterman's show, was filming a bit for that night. The Henderson film crew approached Tabak, and Henderson said, on the air, "You know, you're the third seven-foot Croatian named Zan I met today." Now, Tabak played 18 games all season for the Pacers and was not accustomed to interviews. Poor guy. The first one he gets is Biff Henderson. I swear, at that moment, Tabak gave Henderson a look that not only cursed him, but cursed the Pacers, the NBA and the entire sport of basketball. Perhaps that curse on the Pacers stuck.

    Entering this year, it looks again like the Pacers will break the good-but-not-great jinx. But that's because this year, I'm not sure this team even qualifies as good.

    Thanks to the NBA's new rules interpretation, there's no question that the league is turning to increasingly smaller lineups featuring more versatile players. And, looking at the Pacers' roster, it seems the franchise is stocking up on that type of player. The awaited return of Al Harrington gives them small forward capable of playing power forward. Second-year man Danny Granger will be a solid NBA wing man. Rookies Shawne Williams and James White were high-value picks in this year's draft. Marquis Daniels, acquired in a trade from Dallas, can play three positions.

    OK, so the Pacers want to pick up the tempo, and they're building a Phoenix-ish roster. But Indiana is still coached by Rick Carlisle, a guy who prefers the Chinese water torture pace -- you know, drip, drip, drip till you submit. Carlisle is good at coaching that way. He twice won 50 games in Detroit with that method and won 60 games in his first season with Indiana. What makes the Pacers think Carlisle will suddenly morph into Mike D'Antoni? Or that he should?

    Perhaps, if you're wondering why Carlisle does not have a contract extension yet, the answer is that Pacers brass can't foresee Carlisle adapting to the new NBA. Maybe the new rules have rendered Carlisle a dinosaur at age 46. I have a hard time imagining Larry Bird firing his friend and protege, but then, once it becomes clear that the Pacers are not so good, Bird is going to need to cover his own rear.

    That's because, though the Pacers have added eight players, the changes have been cosmetic and the real work has not been done. This team did not need to trade Austin Croshere or Anthony Johnson or Peja Stojakovic. They were not the problem. Indiana needed to dump Jamaal Tinsley and Stephen Jackson. Or at least one of them. Tinsley has done plenty of damage for the Pacers -- in the locker room. He pouts. He does not practice. He milks injuries. But instead of trading him, the Pacers moved backup Johnson, solidifying Tinsley's spot as the starting point guard. Tinsley missed at least 30 games for the third straight year and, effectively, got a promotion. That sends some kind of locker-room message, eh?

    Oh, and, has anyone else wondered how the Pacers plan to run more with Gimps-ley as the starting point guard?

    Part of the problem is Bird himself. One of the advantages of having him in the front office was supposed to be his ability to work with players and keep guys in the locker room in line. But two agents I spoke with said Bird is standoffish with his players, and that players don't like playing for him. If there is a solution to the Pacers' locker room troubles, it sure is not coming from Bird. He has always been the tight-lipped type and has a well-earned disdain for the pampering that the modern player requires. But apparently, players feel it would be good for the team if there was a sense that Bird is engaged. "He is very condescending," one agent says.

    Even if Bird turns into St. Larry, that won't solve the Pacers' woes. Behind Tinsley are Sarunas Jasikevicius, Darrell Armstrong and Orien Greene. Assuming Tinsley sits out his customary 40 games this year, which of those players would you want to be your starting point guard? I'm going with Armstrong, 38 years old and still ticking.

    And if Jermaine O'Neal gets hurt, forget it. Harrington would play the four-spot with, um, Maceo Baston behind him. But that is indicative of where this roster is now. Too many wings, no point guard, no depth up front. At least Pacers fans won't have their high hopes dashed. The best they can hope for this year is so-so.
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
    -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

  2. #2

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Wow! Denevey would fit right in on this board. I have read 90+% of his comments from many members of PD. Didn't really get his attempt at Tabak humor. Oh well, not everyone can write like the Sports Guy.

  3. #3
    Member BoomBaby31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles (Marina del Rey)
    Posts
    1,958

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    We are like phoenix: just without the great shooters, a brillant PG, the chemistry, and quality leader. Oh and a coach that runs an up-tempo O. lol Phoenix is rare, their shooters are absolutely amazing. They would shoot 60% from the field (90% jump shots) and I would be saying at halftime no way they are going to do that 2nd half. Sure enough, there they were shooting 62%. We don't have the right shooters for a phoenix type team. This article is sad but very true. We are so low on quality players, we are depending on the rookies to be major factors in the rotation next year. We need to grab a shooter and a true center before the season starts.

  4. #4
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,698

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It could be the curse of Zan Tabak. You may remember, Tabak was a little-used center on the Pacers' Finals team in 2000. I remember during a media session after a practice at Conseco Fieldhouse, Biff Henderson, a producer for David Letterman's show, was filming a bit for that night. The Henderson film crew approached Tabak, and Henderson said, on the air, "You know, you're the third seven-foot Croatian named Zan I met today." Now, Tabak played 18 games all season for the Pacers and was not accustomed to interviews. Poor guy. The first one he gets is Biff Henderson. I swear, at that moment, Tabak gave Henderson a look that not only cursed him, but cursed the Pacers, the NBA and the entire sport of basketball. Perhaps that curse on the Pacers stuck.
    Wait a sec....you mean the blame for all this is becuase of Biff Henderson?

    Everything is beginning to make sense now.......
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  5. #5
    redwillow
    Guest

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    One more example of the media underestimating the Pacers. In 5 months it will be..."I knew the Pacers would be good this year all along." It's like Bill Walton announcing a Pacers game when the Pacers are the undergog. He will say how we just don't have what it takes. By the time we've taken an 8 point lead into the half he will be saying we should go deep in the playoffs. The Pacers are the Rodney Dangerfields of the NBA every year.

  6. #6
    Member AnotherBirdCreation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    100

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Not a big fan of Deveney or this article. I agree with him that either Jack or Tinsley should be gone, but again, that is easier said than done. I think he is grossly underrating Granger, Harrington, Daniels, and Sarunas. Actually, throw Baston in there as well. And no mention of Foster or Harrison? Has he ever seen the Pacers play? I've said this tons of times, but Rick is a smart guy that will adapt to his personel. People said the same thing about Flip Saunders last year and Brian Billeck when he went to the Ravens. They also said similar things about Dungy when he went to the Colts. It's not like these guys come out of the womb and say, "I'm a defensive-minded coach that can only coach halfcourt teams." I tend to think some of the best coaching jobs happen when a coach balances out his personel.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    2,144

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    I guess we'll see when the season starts. Not saying he's right or wrong, but I do know that reading that pile of feces made me want to stick rusted nails into my eyes. Only thing I agree with was the part about trading away AJ.

  8. #8
    streets ahead
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    DC
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,754

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by redwillow
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    One more example of the media underestimating the Pacers. In 5 months it will be..."I knew the Pacers would be good this year all along." It's like Bill Walton announcing a Pacers game when the Pacers are the undergog. He will say how we just don't have what it takes. By the time we've taken an 8 point lead into the half he will be saying we should go deep in the playoffs. The Pacers are the Rodney Dangerfields of the NBA every year.
    well yeah, but bill walton is a douchebag.

    i know that appears to be a personal attack, but it has actually been medically proven. just ask Dr. Jack Ramsey.

  9. #9
    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,668

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    He couldn't even get how many wins we had right. Pathetic. Although he like people on this board claim Jackson has to be traded failed to give reasons. But of course he didn't list stupid ones.

    Hes an Idiot. He may be right about us being mediocre but he deduced it incorrectly

  10. #10
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Coliseum
    Posts
    6,248

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    You would think if Tinsley could read at all he would get the idea he needs to clean up his act. He can read right?
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  11. #11
    Member indytoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,503

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by redwillow
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    One more example of the media underestimating the Pacers. In 5 months it will be..."I knew the Pacers would be good this year all along." It's like Bill Walton announcing a Pacers game when the Pacers are the undergog. He will say how we just don't have what it takes. By the time we've taken an 8 point lead into the half he will be saying we should go deep in the playoffs. The Pacers are the Rodney Dangerfields of the NBA every year.
    I don't know why everyone always says that. The last couple years we were picked to go much farther than we actually did. Although, it's true this "the media is out to get us" complex isn't limited to Pacers fans - everyone loves to be the underdog, after all.

    IndyToad
    Neutral fingers

  12. #12
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,700

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    shrug, now we know who bball is, or that he is blatanly into plagiarism, or finally closely related. so what else is new ?
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  13. #13
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Part of the problem is Bird himself. One of the advantages of having him in the front office was supposed to be his ability to work with players and keep guys in the locker room in line. But two agents I spoke with said Bird is standoffish with his players, and that players don't like playing for him. If there is a solution to the Pacers' locker room troubles, it sure is not coming from Bird. He has always been the tight-lipped type and has a well-earned disdain for the pampering that the modern player requires. But apparently, players feel it would be good for the team if there was a sense that Bird is engaged. "He is very condescending," one agent says.
    As much as I don't like Bird I can't picture him being condescending to anyone.

    And while we're on the subject of agents here's hoping Arn Tellem isn't one of the two agents the guy is talking about. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if he is.

  14. #14

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Yea I believe his point in writing this article was to say that we have been good but not great for a long time, but now, we won't even be good. That just isn't true. Assuming we get Al, that will give us at least 3 guys who will average double figures in JO, Al, and Marquis. That isn't even counting Danny or Tins, who are both very capable scorers. I hate to say it, and even more I hate the fact that Larry put us in this position, but I think our season will hinge on how healthy Tins stays.

    My point in this rebuttal is that we have enough constants to at least make the playoffs, especially in the East. With Rick coaching and JO staying healthy, put us down for at least 40 wins. Having said all of that, it really isn't very logical right now to suspect that the Pacers will win the championsip next year. I think, at best, we could make, but not win, the Conf Finals. But in order for that to happen, we'd have to get Al, Tins and JO and everyone else would have to stay healthy, Danny would have to have a break out year, and we would have to get some kind of offensive and defensive production from our rookies. But with our lack of shooting, we would have to be really, really good at defense.
    This is only my opinion. Please hold it against me.

  15. #15
    Member tdubb03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crawfordsville, IN
    Age
    30
    Posts
    721

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    I don't think it's a problem with the Pacers not fitting the new NBA. Or Larry Bird not fitting.

    It's that the game of basketball doesn't fit in the new NBA.

  16. #16
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    honolulu
    Age
    26
    Posts
    7,877
    Mood

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    He's completely and totally wrong about the Peja deal. We milked that for all it was worth. Does he even know who we got in the trades and why they occured? Sounds like a hater to me.

  17. #17
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northside Bias
    Posts
    12,962

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    I've loved Deveney's work for years. I think he's far and away the best of the internet columnists. And I'd say he's definitely on target here.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  18. #18
    Brian Mac_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    University Heights
    Age
    28
    Posts
    569
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    I think he should have elaborated more on the "Curse of Zan Tabak." Apparently his face cursed us... Now I know why we never seem to break out and win a championship. Pretty soon, we'll have to start parading this curse around just like the Cubs fans to explain why we can't do anything.




    I hate excuses.


  19. #19
    Member Ultimate Frisbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,374

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    The thing that I found interesting was the bolded section about Bird...

    If thats true, perhaps another backup for Donnie would be a better decision...
    Here, everyone have a : on me

  20. #20
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,787

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    This thing about Bird concerns me a little. Whether right or wrong pro athletes like to be catered to and treated like kings. That might not be right, but it is the way it is.

    Doubt Bird would do what John Paxson did here.

    /sports/columnists/cs-060802smith,1,7087295.column?coll=cs-home-utility

    Paxson as hopeful as he is anxious
    GM says he likes new look of Bulls
    Sam Smith
    On Pro Basketball

    August 2, 2006

    LAS VEGAS -- It's the little things, we're told, that mean the difference between winning and losing in basketball.

    Bulls general manager John Paxson seems to be trying to make sure he doesn't overlook any of them.

    Paxson flew here Monday from Chicago to buy dinner for his point guard, Kirk Hinrich, who is here with the USA Basketball team preparing for the World Championships later this month in Japan.

    "I was pleased, surprised," Hinrich said. "It shows the kind of guy Pax is. It means a lot. That stuff goes a long way toward showing he's serious about his players and the organization means a lot to him."

    The U.S. team was to scrimmage the Puerto Rican team at UNLV's Thomas & Mack Center Tuesday night, but Hinrich's participation was uncertain … thanks to Monday night's dinner.

    "I got an allergic reaction to something I ate, maybe in the Caesar salad," he said. "I didn't get much sleep last night."

    But Hinrich will recover, and he'll remain one of the key components of a Bulls team that—dare I say it—could be considered a championship contender for the first time since the 1997-98 season.

    Paxson has taken the extra steps with the signing of free-agent star Ben Wallace and the drafting of Tyrus Thomas and Thabo Sefolosha, the trade of Tyson Chandler for veteran P.J. Brown and additions like Adrian Griffin, who was a key contributor for the Dallas Mavericks last season.

    But the Bulls still look like they're short a big man, and they don't have a true post presence on offense.

    "I've put myself out there, but if you do anything [bold] you're on the hook," Paxson said before heading home Tuesday. "One thing I am real comfortable in is Scott [Skiles] has found a way to get a lot out of young players and he's not afraid to throw those guys out on the floor and let them play.

    "I think we have depth and versatility and we'll be able to live with some of the mistakes the young guys make and not be afraid to let them play."

    As Paxson talked about the Bulls, USA Basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski walked over to compliment him.

    "I grew up about a mile and a half from the United Center," Krzyzewski said. "I like the things you've done."

    Paxson smiled humbly, though he knows his moves are being questioned.

    Did he pay too much for Wallace, who can't make a free throw and gets fouled at the end of games? Did he take a chance on inexperienced players in the draft? Who's going to score in the post when the offense slows? Can you win with all those jump shots?

    Paxson has agonized about all that for weeks. He said he's getting ready to head for a remote island with his wife. No TV, no phones, no computers. No golf course. Just lots of blue water and beach. "I've got four or five books I want to read," he said.

    None about the Princeton offense or UCLA cuts.

    "No doubt, expectations have been raised," Paxson said. "I think we're all anxious to see what we have. I think we improved our team. That's the whole idea behind it.

    "People talk about Game 5 in Miami (when the Bulls led by five in the third quarter). We had our chances. We had a number of possessions, Miami didn't score and if we had any offense we would have won that game. It didn't happen. We weren't good enough, which is what it came down to. If you cannot seize the moment, it means you're not good enough."

    The Bulls' many changes "haven't disrupted the core of the team," Paxson noted. "As I sit here, I say Miami isn't going away. Detroit, New Jersey, Washington, Cleveland, Milwaukee—those are good basketball teams. But we're excited. The thing I'm happiest about is we have 13 guys on our roster Scott can put in games.

    "We've added length. Last year we got so few easy scores. My hope is this year we'll be a better defensive team, get more steals, deflections, things that translate into easy scores, and I think we'll be able to do that."

    Post offense is an area Paxson couldn't address in the draft or free agency. Eleven of the first 15 games are on the road, which could be a challenge with so many new players. The home record wasn't good last season, and that's something Paxson said is vital that the Bulls change.

    "It's going to be a work in progress," he said. "We did make a lot of changes. It's not just going to happen."

    It's possible the Bulls will add another big man. A tough guy like Seattle's Danny Fortson could be released and might be worth a look. Perhaps the Bulls could try for a sign-and-trade for one of the available free agents, like Memphis' Lorenzen Wright, using Chris Duhon. The Bulls have told Michael Sweetney—again—to get in better shape.

    "I'm not the most optimistic guy to begin with," Paxson said, acknowledging his changing moods about his team. "But I believe this: Kirk Hinrich will be a better player, I believe Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni will be better players and I think we've added pieces around them that are better than we had. It gives us a dimension we didn't have in length and athleticism. I'm hopeful and I'm anxious.

    "I also know how hard it is to win. The great thing is for two years this team has battled. Ben Wallace, ever since the deal, there's been criticism he's aging and we still don't have an [inside] offensive presence. But he's a guy who has never conceded anything and he gets respect when he's out there. Because of that we have to be a better team."

    It won't be long before we all get to find out.

    sasmith@tribune.com


    Copyright © 2006, The Chicago Tribune

  21. #21
    Member Doug in CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,175

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    This article sounds a lot like what Kravitz was saying the net result of the season will be
    Heywoode says... work hard man.

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,136

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Pretty unremarkable article IMO. Deveny says the Pacers will be just OK this year - unless JO or Tinsley gets hurt and then you'll have big problems. He says the team is trying to make some moves to change the team based on the way they've started calling the games - which they are. He says the Pacers really should move Jackson or Tinsley but they haven't and everything else so far is mostly window dressing - which is basically true. He says there are questions as to whether Carlisle can adjust to an uptempo game and that may be why he doesn't have a contract extension - which is pretty much what this board's been saying. He says Bird's not a touchy-feely kind of guy which everyone on the planet knows.

    Based on this article, I'd say Deveney has demonstrated his mastery of the blatantly obvious.

    But of course it's an article for everyone who follows basketball - not just Pacer fans. You don't put a lot of detail into that.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  23. #23
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,787

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The Bulls' many changes "haven't disrupted the core of the team," Paxson noted. "As I sit here, I say Miami isn't going away. Detroit, New Jersey, Washington, Cleveland, Milwaukee—those are good basketball teams. But we're excited. The thing I'm happiest about is we have 13 guys on our roster Scott can put in games.

    Let's see, what team didn't he name.

  24. #24
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Let's see what team didn't he name.
    Yeah...that really hurts. I think we can officially put ourselves into the rebuilding category...and I don't care what Donnie calls it.

  25. #25
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,086

    Default Re: SportingNews.com: Pacers don't fit in new NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've loved Deveney's work for years. I think he's far and away the best of the internet columnists. And I'd say he's definitely on target here.
    I can't think of another column that better articulates the Pacers' problems. This is a great article, right on the money.

    Rimfire complains that he knows everything that was said in the article. I think the real point is that this is the first published article that says these things directly.

    Also, the info Bird really is new information: agents saying he is "condescending." Yes, this feeling is probably related to Bird being relationally challenged. It has been my opinion for a while that Bird does not have the same killer instinct with people that he had on the court--those are two very different things. I think you can trace a lot of the Pacers problems to Larry Bird's inability to confront people. He may say something at a press conference, but my guess is he says nothing to the person directly, thus coming off as condescending, rather than "speaking the truth in love."

    The writer's point about rewarding the complaining, gimpy Tinsley with the elimination of his chief competition was rather poignant, reflective of our larger problem.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •