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Thread: Post-season Plus Minus........

  1. #1
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    Led by Anthony Johnson, who's at +27 total.
    Calling Ragnar....
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  2. #2
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    AJ has played well but he has been lucky in the last two games. He happened to be on the floor when Hunter threw down Jermaine. And also when Cro went off. Neither of those were as a result of him in the floor.

    The thing that really bothers me is that if Jermaine throws the ball away after getting a pass from Jamaal, Jamaal is the one taken out of the game. And when the rest of the bench goes on a run for the most part with no help what so ever from AJ he gets to stay in the game untill everyone in the building can see that leaving him in would start to give the game back to the other team.

    AJ did a good job of passing the ball to Fred tonight and letting him run the ofense. But Tinsley did a great job when he came back in late in the 4th. I am sure most of you saw him rip the ball away from Ricky Davis.

    I dont know what the deal is but the last two games our starters dont seem to be into it in the begining of the game. And the guy who gets his minutes cut is Tins. Leaving me to belive that there is a bias by Rick in favor of AJ.

    If Tins would not have gone off in the third like he did Benders 3 that put us up by 10 would have been for the tie. So I am suprised that Tins is plus 0 but a lot of that is that he was left on the bench while Cro, Freddie, Bender and Al were taking over the game. But hey they didnt need a point guard so why put one in.

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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    But hey they didnt need a point guard so why put one in.
    They had one in the game who was doing just fine....No. 20

  4. #4
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    AJ had indeed little or nothing to do with the run.

    If anything, he was pulled for nearly handing it back (per usual).

    his jumper in the corner, in between the Cro-Bend start of the run, was just plain luck, he lost the ball, got time to recover and hoisted a desperation with less then 3 seconds on the clock, he had to, he had nearly lost that ball with 8 seconds on the clock.

    Tins was told at half time to go for the 3 he did, when AJ lost it all near the end, Tins was back in.

    Let's stop the comparison, they are not even near to being in the same league.

    And yes, Rick favours KA and AJ over Tins, but Tins TOOK the starting position and even Rick will admit that he has one of the most talented ball distributors in the league on the floor with him.
    That and the fact that the team loves him as well

    And what happened when he came in?

    (2:46) [IND] Johnson Substitution replaced by Tinsley
    (2:46) [BOS 83-92] Atkins Free Throw 1 of 1 (21 PTS)
    (2:29) [BOS] Blount Foul: Shooting (4 PF)
    (2:29) [IND 93-83] Croshere Free Throw 1 of 2 (9 PTS)
    (2:29) [IND 94-83] Croshere Free Throw 2 of 2 (10 PTS)
    (2:22) [IND] Tinsley Foul: Personal (3 PF)
    (2:22) [BOS 84-94] Pierce Free Throw 1 of 2 (24 PTS)
    (2:22) [BOS 85-94] Pierce Free Throw 2 of 2 (25 PTS)
    (2:03) [IND 97-85] Tinsley Jump Shot: Made (15 PTS) Assist: Croshere (3 AST)
    (1:49) [BOS] Pierce Turnover: Traveling (7 TO)
    (1:28) [IND] Bender Jump Shot: Missed
    (1:26) [BOS] Davis Rebound (Off:0 Def:3)
    (1:19) [BOS] Davis Turnover: Lost Ball (2 TO) Steal: Tinsley (2 ST)

    a 3pt and a steal in under 2 minutes while closing out the game, he deserves more props then some of you are willing to given him.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    ......but he has been lucky in the last two games.
    Hee hee. When AJ is in and something bad happens, it's because he's a failure. When he's in and something good happens, it's because the other four guys are doing great.
    Hey I said he was playing well but you have to admit that he had nothing to do with Cro entering the game. And he made none of those plays Cro did. And you also must be able to see that he had nothing to do with Jermaine and Ron taking over once Jermaine got thrown down.

    He did help in that he would just give the ball to the other players, but like able said he was a detriment on several possessions. Over the series I think the plus minus will head in the other direction. For the year AJ was -3 but there were games where he was +20 it happens.

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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    Able -

    The comparison that most have made has NEVER been about AJ vs Tinsley; it has been about the backup PG slot, i.e. AJ vs Kenny.

    No one would say that in a normal situation AJ should get minutes over Tinsley.

    But I think a very valid point has been made.

    When AJ is in and all things are going bad, it is not always AJ's doing as Ragnar would have you believe. Conversely, when all things are going well when Kenny is in the game, it is not always Kenny's doing.

    The bottom line is, in viewing +/- statistics, for example for the first playoff game, it is readily apparent that the statistic is not always indicative of the contribution that a particular player has made.

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    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........


    When AJ is in and all things are going bad, it is not always AJ's doing as Ragnar would have you believe. Conversely, when all things are going well when Kenny is in the game, it is not always Kenny's doing.

    The bottom line is, in viewing +/- statistics, for example for the first playoff game, it is readily apparent that the statistic is not always indicative of the contribution that a particular player has made.

    No the game by game stats are not indicative. But the cumulative full season 5 man +/- is and he is sorely lacking in that. There are certainly times when AJ has not been the problem on the floor and I have said that. I cant stand the guy but I have said he has had a good game on several occasions.

    I even have a superstition about him. When he sucks it ip in the first half I come down and post something about him sucking and needing to be traded and invariably he plays better in the second half. At first I thought it was because of my posts but that is absurd so I started paying closer attention to the ebb and flow of his game and I noticed that he ALWAYS plays better in the second hald than he does in the first. I dont know why but he will be like -300 in the first half but end up -0 for the game.

    Last night however he had nothing to do with Cro being in the game and did not assist in any of the plays. All he did was bring the ball ove the time line. He did make a shot on a broken play, but he was the one who broke the play!! If anything Rick was the guy who should get the +/- for inserting Cro when he did.

  8. #8
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post-season Plus Minus........

    Able -

    The comparison that most have made has NEVER been about AJ vs Tinsley; it has been about the backup PG slot, i.e. AJ vs Kenny.

    No one would say that in a normal situation AJ should get minutes over Tinsley.

    But I think a very valid point has been made.

    When AJ is in and all things are going bad, it is not always AJ's doing as Ragnar would have you believe. Conversely, when all things are going well when Kenny is in the game, it is not always Kenny's doing.

    The bottom line is, in viewing +/- statistics, for example for the first playoff game, it is readily apparent that the statistic is not always indicative of the contribution that a particular player has made.
    yeah, i make that comparison myself most of the time, if you would read back you would see that, but..............

    You are breaking me open on something i would've prefered to be silent.

    1. I recognize that AJ did not play that bad over the first 2 games. (NO he did not play "fantastic" or came all of a sudden in the league just below Tins)

    2. Despite what some people have posted, Tins IS having a good series, doing what is asked by the coach, like his 2nd half shooting last night, hitting shots, making plays and working hard in general. Yes his stats tell you something and I am not referring to the plus/minus stats here, I agree with Ragnar that those can only be judged over loooong periods of time, if they are to be used at all and then I prefer the 5 man +/-
    Tins has done a lot of good things, i posted that snip because he did stab the dagger with his 3 and he DID stop Davis from doing something with his steal , in short he still puts up very nice stats and I am sure once they are all over that first round hump, things will only get better.

    3. I am serisouly wondering why Kenny is not getting any playing time.
    Why do I say that ? because he is "known" to be a "chucky killer" and to be just the PG Chuck has problems with, yet he has not yet come off the bench other then to cheer on the team.

    I still think KA is a more solid and experienced backup the AJ, but I am not the coach, so why pay attention to my opinion
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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