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Thread: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

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    Default (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Deal delay drags on
    By Sekou Smith | Sunday, July 30, 2006, 08:24 PM

    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution



    Patience is a virtue all you Hawks fans must have in surplus. Because here we are, nearly a month after the free agent negotiation period began, and there is still no completed sign-and-trade deal for Al Harrington and most of you are still here. Your perseverance in this matter is admirable. This is the second straight summer you’ve all had to wait like this (like I wrote last week, Joe Johnson wasn’t officially a Hawk until Aug. 19 last summer).

    For certain, it’s beyond maddening for all involved. Well, almost all involved. But this second straight summer of seeming uncertainty will take a toll elsewhere. And follow me here, but I believe that the Hawks are treading into dangerously deep waters this summer by not consummating this Harrington deal sooner.

    Because while players will always’come when their bottom line is money, and sometimes the dollars are so overwhelming a player can’t deny them. When building a team, though, a quality, playoff-hungry team, you need seasoned role players. And those role players are usually acquired during these dog days of summer. And while the Hawks spend months every summer to finish their major transaction, other teams are doing business at a pace much more conducive to an immediate transformation of both their roster and culture.


    The rebuilding the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets embarked upon is already weeks into the making because they didn’t hesitate to make moves. They consummated them as soon as legally possible and began the transition process as soon as it was feasible.

    Say what you will about the Pacers and this Harrington deal, the rest of their summer makeover hasn’t slowed down because this main affair has taken longer than they might have liked. The Milwaukee Bucks have quietly reshaped their roster with a series of shrewd moves (the latest reportedly the move of Jamaal Magloire to Portland for Steve Blake, Brian Skinner and Ha Seung Jin).

    If the Hawks were a team in need of less tinkering - a playoff team already and one that needs only mild tweaking and not a drastic overhaul - I might not be as concerned. But after speaking with players, agents, team officials and people in general from other NBA teams, the one question they all have is what’s going on with the Hawks?

    That’s code for what’s the deal with the ownership situation and what are they doing down there to fix that team? (And while few people are speaking about any of this and so much more on the record, rest assured that plenty is being said off the record.)


    The ownership situation is what it is, which is a process that promises to carry on for the foreseeable future without a promising ending for all involved. But the fixing of the team, that’s something that can’t be disputed. That’s something that should have tangible results after an offseason of working the phones and studying every possible avenue for curing your own ills. Speedy Claxton was a huge step in that direction, whether you want to believe it or not. And that leaves the Hawks’ search for another big man as the last major move they need to make before moving on to seeing how their roster shapes up with training camp in sight. The remaining candidates are few - former Hawk Lorenzen Wright is the most attractive and sensible option out there and is very much a possibility.

    But much like everything else about this Hawks offseason, patience is the word that you need to repeat 100 times per hour, per day, while watching these things play out.

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    Default Re: (Harrington)Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Nothing we didn't already know *sigh*...

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Lets just hope Billy Knight reads this!

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    I'm sure he'll see it during his daily pacers digest lurk....

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    But like me he'll only read the bolded part and then decide even that is too much to read.

    The mistake is someone on here said it wasn't a big deal if this dragged on until Sept.









    Hi, Billy. I still like you.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    The problem is that BK isn't helping anyone. He isn't helping himself, the Pacers, the Hawks, or Al. He is just afraid of making a mistake like he did in last year's JJ trade, (which was over-shadowed by the Eddy Curry deal but in reality is a much worse trade...the Suns got the best player in the trade and two very probably good draft picks in two deep drafts (top 3 protected in '07 but not protected otherwise) as well as a 6 million trade exception). He knows that if he does nothing, he can't make a mistake. Well...in reality, he is. This trade needs to happen soon for everybody's sanity.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    I posted this on the Pacers RealGM board......but if all they are asking for.....a Future 1st round pick.....take on Edwards $1.08 mil contract.....and $3mil cash.....then it would simply boil down to how much protection that the Pacers are willing to give up.

    Keeping in mind that this is the Pacers that we are talking about......you never know when injuries are going to decimate the Pacers chance at the Playoffs....and therefore the liklihood that we maybe a lottery team. I know the Hawks fans are going to suggest that it should be completely unprotected given that we are giving up close to nothing to get Harrington......but I would guess TPTB would want some type of protection ( within reason ) on it given the Bulls/Knicks swap.

    Reallistically......if all they are asking for is just the Draft pick, $$$, take on Edwards 1.08 mil contract and the T/E ( I guess )...that is very little to ask for. It just comes down to the protection of the pick.
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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    AFAIK it's the cash that's the hold up. To have us take on Edwards, and for us to give them a pick, it's technically going to be two trades. So my thinking is, since a trade can include up to $3mm, they probably want us to give a total of $6mm in cash (3 in the Al trade, 3 in the Edwards trade), and we're saying no. That's just a guess.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    I'm still not convinced that Harrington will help you that much. He'll be a 13-15 pt and 6-7 board player who is a pretty good defender.

    The problem is, to really use him you'd have JO playing out of position at center and you'd limit Granger who IMO is more versatile and within a year or two will be a better player.

    A good outside shooter or two will help you more than Harrington. And I still think if Tinsley goes down you'll have maybe the worst PG - whoever it is - in the entire league.

    The guy you needed - with the AJ trade - was David Wesley. But he's gone. You need to find someone else along the same line.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    AFAIK it's the cash that's the hold up. To have us take on Edwards, and for us to give them a pick, it's technically going to be two trades. So my thinking is, since a trade can include up to $3mm, they probably want us to give a total of $6mm in cash (3 in the Al trade, 3 in the Edwards trade), and we're saying no. That's just a guess.
    Hicks...breaking out the old Animaniacs Chicken Boo reference.....

    Why can't it be a single "All in one" trade? It is because of league rules?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    I'm still not convinced that Harrington will help you that much. He'll be a 13-15 pt and 6-7 board player who is a pretty good defender.

    The problem is, to really use him you'd have JO playing out of position at center and you'd limit Granger who IMO is more versatile and within a year or two will be a better player.

    A good outside shooter or two will help you more than Harrington. And I still think if Tinsley goes down you'll have maybe the worst PG - whoever it is - in the entire league.

    The guy you needed - with the AJ trade - was David Wesley. But he's gone. You need to find someone else along the same line.
    With Harrington...yes...it would ultimately mean that JONeal would have to play more Center minutes....but given our likely lineup....I don't think that it will adversely affect Granger's minutes. We can easily run a 9-player rotation and still be able to give Harrington, SJax, JONeal, Marquis and Granger 30-32 mpg. The problem is that this is all at the expense of giving any minutes to White and Shawne while limiting Foster and Harrison each to about 15-20 minutes a game.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    Hicks...breaking out the old Animaniacs Chicken Boo reference.....

    Why can't it be a single "All in one" trade? It is because of league rules?
    What I've read has said that the Trade Exception can't be combined with players (or picks I think).

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    With Harrington...yes...it would ultimately mean that JONeal would have to play more Center minutes....but given our likely lineup....I don't think that it will adversely affect Granger's minutes. We can easily run a 9-player rotation and still be able to give Harrington, SJax, JONeal, Marquis and Granger 30-32 mpg. The problem is that this is all at the expense of giving any minutes to White and Shawne while limiting Foster and Harrison each to about 15-20 minutes a game.
    I don't think you'd limit Granger's minutes as much as his opportunities to become an impact player on offense. We all remember Harrington when he was here before. He'll want his touches and to be a featured player on offense.

    I think in the long run you're better off with Granger developing his ability to work as a slasher off of JO's post play. But maybe not - maybe Harrington will be content with 8-10 shots/game.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    What I've read has said that the Trade Exception can't be combined with players (or picks I think).
    I believe we easily have enough of a trade exception from the AJ trade with Dallas to acquire Edwards, if that is what we ultimately have to do.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    That's correct; I forgot about the second TE. However it would still have to be two trades since you can't combine TE's either.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    That's correct; I forgot about the second TE. However it would still have to be two trades since you can't combine TE's either.
    That's right, although you can - FYI - combine draft picks (including rights to drafted but unsigned players like Lorbek, I think) and/or cash (up to $3M) with trade exceptions.
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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    What I've read has said that the Trade Exception can't be combined with players (or picks I think).
    Players, no.

    This is an "exception", as in an exception to the normal idea of a cap, which would suggest that once you hit it you are stuck and can add no more salary. A traded player is another form of exception in that you are allowed to receive back a salary that would put you over the cap (keep you over the cap, but think of it in 2 steps, player goes out, other player comes in after that).

    You can't combine exceptions, so you can't combine a player with a TE. The same is true for the MLE, MIN exception, whatever.


    A TE is the gap left from an unfinished trade, in that your team didn't actually get something back in a deal and has decided to wait and possibly acquire a contract later to fit that void. You can pick that contract up off of waivers or you can trade for it.

    But because you can't combine it you have to trade only non-exception stuff (ie, no players). So you do 2 deals, one is to get the contract that you will stick into the TE space you were given on the other deal, and the 2nd would be any player deals it would take to entice the other team into giving you a contract.

    It could be this, for example:

    1) Harrington for $10 (wow, some deal!)

    2) Foster for crappy Hawk making Foster money

    It looks like Al and a dud for Foster, and essentially that's what it is. However the contract space of Foster didn't take on Harrington. The TE space did. Atlanta did deal 1 because you were willing to benefit them in deal 2.

    Picks, player rights and cash have no cap value and are not cap exceptions. You aren't combining them with the TE because there is no value to be combined. You do deal them for the player contract, I'm just saying that no cap space combining is going on there because those items have no cap space.


    The TE is a parking space for an EXISTING contract (ie, not one you create by signing a free agent). How you acquire that contract is up to you as long as you don't use any other part of your deal to help take on that contract. It must fit in the TE space and then the rest of the deal must meet NBA rules on its own.

    Waiver players like Greene still have an existing contract until they clear, which is why the Pacers could use the JJ TE to pick him up.

    One advantage of the MLE is that it can be used to create a new contract, meaning it can be used to sign free agents. A $5m MLE is better than a $5m TE.

    Edwards -> AJ TE space
    Harrington -> Peja TE space
    Rest of deal to get those contracts must meet NBA restrictions.

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    Default Re: (Harrington) Deal delay drags on -Atlanta Journal

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    I'm still not convinced that Harrington will help you that much. He'll be a 13-15 pt and 6-7 board player who is a pretty good defender.

    The problem is, to really use him you'd have JO playing out of position at center and you'd limit Granger who IMO is more versatile and within a year or two will be a better player.

    A good outside shooter or two will help you more than Harrington. And I still think if Tinsley goes down you'll have maybe the worst PG - whoever it is - in the entire league.

    The guy you needed - with the AJ trade - was David Wesley. But he's gone. You need to find someone else along the same line.

    I would love to have David Wesley, or Earl Bonkins.

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