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Thread: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    I was just reading a Pacer Digest thread and had my hands completely off the 'puter (touching NOTHING) when the "puter shut down...I mean.."Click" it is off. This happens frequently. In the past I have waited hours and not been able to reboot until I switch the plug's positions in my power cords (2). I did it immediately after this shut down and am back online within 3 minutes. We are currently into our 4th set of surge protectors (though not expensive ones).

    Now a couple of weeks ago Geezer Jr. noted that As I was vacuuming the hallway outside the computer room it was shutting down everytime I turned the vacuum on. Sunday as I was vacuuming this room the 'puter continuously rebooted itself, until I finished and shut off the vacuum.

    Power drain rather than surge? When it happend just now, I did not notice any light flickers or any such symptoms, it just went off.

    By way of info, this is a clone I had built. There are 6 fans in it but I had 1 disconnected because the dern thing was so loud we couldn't hear outside the room.

    What is going on and why would switching outlet positions correct it?????? I re-emphasize...IT WILL NOT RESTART UNTIL THE PLUGS ARE SWITCHED.
    (here's my sci-fi theory......electron build-up around the prongs).
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Poltergiest Geezer. You need to have the short little lady with the funny voice pay you a visit.

    By chance, someone didn't sell you a house that was built on an indian grave yard did they?

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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    get yourself a stronger power supply for the puter. rebooting is a common sign of too much drain on the power supply. they are very cheap as well...

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by mugsy27 View Post
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    get yourself a stronger power supply for the puter. rebooting is a common sign of too much drain on the power supply. they are very cheap as well...
    I could see that but why does switching the plugs around allow me to reboot???



    I had this house built. The subdivision is a former farm I used to work...nearby stream so there coulda been injuns.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    You always have a lot of problems with electrical things Geez. I'm thinking your body's electricity is too high, and it's interfering. Look it up on the net.

  6. #6
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Geezer,
    Are you sure you need to be switching the plugs around? Or is it just the act of disconnecting and replugging a device the only part of it that matters?

    I would totally suspect the power supply in the computer EXCEPT your story about the vacuum has me intrigued. But you are not tripping breakers.

    It would seem your computer isn't reacting well to a slight voltage drop. How much stuff is connected to the circuit the computer is on? Have you metered the power at the outlet to make sure you have 120V hot to neutral and hot to ground and 0V from neutral to ground on the circuit?

    It could still very well be your power supply in the computer. Or it could be a combination of things. Let's say the voltage at your panel is low at 112V instead of 120V. Then add in a long run of Romex (wire) to your computer room. That long run will cause some voltage drop. Now let's say they used 14ga wire instead of 12ga wired. Even more voltage drop.

    OK... now have a lamp or two on the same circuit. More voltage drop. Plug in a stereo and let it play... more drop. And then add a refridgerator on that circuit. That's plenty of voltage sucking to cripple you if your supply is weak to begin with.

    You might just be on the edge of supplying enough voltage to your computer for it to work. That's what it sounds like. Especially when you say your vacuum was killing it. Just too much voltage drop.

    I'd really need to know what all is on that one circuit plus know what it meters to really target the problem.

    There's also the possibility your circuit voltage is well within acceptable tolerances BUT the computer power supply is just not up to snuff (so we're coming full circle) and just a slight sag in voltage is enough to shut it down. A better, or 'stiffer' power supply would laugh at the voltage drop and keep right on ticking.

    Have you upgraded this computer recently (or had it repaired)? I'm wondering if a new video card might've been added that is really sucking on the internal PS of the computer. It wouldn't have to be a video card but that seems the most likely culprit that could draw considerably more power than a previous model.

    And what fan did you disconnect? Your symptoms could be from overheating. The vacuum story leads me to think it's not.... but.... Did this all start when the heat came on for the winter and is the computer near a heating vent?

    Surge protectors are worthless for this situation no matter which of the above it is. OTOH, a UPS and/or votage regulator would keep your machine seeing 120V if the wall circuit is starving it and below acceptable standards.

    If you don't have a VOM or DMM to test the outlet, Rat Shack has (had?) a quick voltage tester that you just plug into the outlet. It has a needle on it and shows you your voltage. It doesn't test as thoroughly as a properly used VOM or DMM (it's not going to show you a polarity reversal for example) but IF your outlet is wired properly then it tells you what you need to know about voltage.

    If the voltage looks good 120V +-3 then I suspect the internal power supply in the computer. Overheating would be a distant 2nd unless the computer is right by a heating vent.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Geezer,
    Are you sure you need to be switching the plugs around? Or is it just the act of disconnecting and replugging a device the only part of it that matters?

    I would totally suspect the power supply in the computer EXCEPT your story about the vacuum has me intrigued. But you are not tripping breakers.

    It would seem your computer isn't reacting well to a slight voltage drop. How much stuff is connected to the circuit the computer is on? Have you metered the power at the outlet to make sure you have 120V hot to neutral and hot to ground and 0V from neutral to ground on the circuit?

    It could still very well be your power supply in the computer. Or it could be a combination of things. Let's say the voltage at your panel is low at 112V instead of 120V. Then add in a long run of Romex (wire) to your computer room. That long run will cause some voltage drop. Now let's say they used 14ga wire instead of 12ga wired. Even more voltage drop.

    OK... now have a lamp or two on the same circuit. More voltage drop. Plug in a stereo and let it play... more drop. And then add a refrigerator on that circuit. That's plenty of voltage sucking to cripple you if your supply is weak to begin with.

    You might just be on the edge of supplying enough voltage to your computer for it to work. That's what it sounds like. Especially when you say your vacuum was killing it. Just too much voltage drop.

    I'd really need to know what all is on that one circuit plus know what it meters to really target the problem.

    There's also the possibility your circuit voltage is well within acceptable tolerances BUT the computer power supply is just not up to snuff (so we're coming full circle) and just a slight sag in voltage is enough to shut it down. A better, or 'stiffer' power supply would laugh at the voltage drop and keep right on ticking.

    Have you upgraded this computer recently (or had it repaired)? I'm wondering if a new video card might've been added that is really sucking on the internal PS of the computer. It wouldn't have to be a video card but that seems the most likely culprit that could draw considerably more power than a previous model.

    And what fan did you disconnect? Your symptoms could be from overheating. The vacuum story leads me to think it's not.... but.... Did this all start when the heat came on for the winter and is the computer near a heating vent?

    Surge protectors are worthless for this situation no matter which of the above it is. OTOH, a UPS and/or votage regulator would keep your machine seeing 120V if the wall circuit is starving it and below acceptable standards.

    If you don't have a VOM or DMM to test the outlet, Rat Shack has (had?) a quick voltage tester that you just plug into the outlet. It has a needle on it and shows you your voltage. It doesn't test as thoroughly as a properly used VOM or DMM (it's not going to show you a polarity reversal for example) but IF your outlet is wired properly then it tells you what you need to know about voltage.

    If the voltage looks good 120V +-3 then I suspect the internal power supply in the computer. Overheating would be a distant 2nd unless the computer is right by a heating vent.

    -Bball
    This room is kept cool by all the crap the Mrs covers the heat vent with (sorry dear). This room has been dedicated to 'puters for 4-5 years and this is at least the 3rd 'puter in here and the 1st to have this problem IIRC. I came within 20 seconds of ordering a new Dell CPU the other day in hopes of ridding outselves of this problem. The 'puter is a little over a year old and I had it built by someone highly recommended to me (by who?? and whathis name???) ...but who know what parts he put in there. The idea of a power insufficiency has occured to me and I may have to hire an electrician to check that out but......
    yesterday I half-jokingly mentioned an electron build-up around the prongs. Anyone remember capacitors from back in the day? They built up enough charge around them that when a device was turned off it could still knock you on your keester. But that is an interesting point. I don't know what would happen if I unplugged them and then put them right back in the same outlet. Interesting.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    http://www.statesman.com/money/conte.../qa050724.html

    Link between crashes, body electricity uncertain

    By BILL HUSTED
    July 17, 2005

    Q: I have a rather odd question. I've always had trouble wearing wristwatches; regardless of how expensive they are, they run for a week or two and then quit. Years ago, a high school science teacher told me it might be because I had too much electricity in my body.

    As an adult, I've noticed that I seem to have a higher-than-average amount of computer crashes, both at home and at work. So, my question: Is there any truth to what my science teacher told me, and could it be the source of my computer problems? Or was he just pulling the leg of a naive teenager? — Angela Ward


    A: This is sure to generate e-mail from other readers because most of us have met at least one person with an identical problem. You could make a case for what your teacher said —think of how batteries work. A chemical reaction creates the electron flow. Our bodies teem with chemical reactions.

    Here at the newspaper, I worked with a reporter who was unable to use the touchpad that substitutes for a mouse on some Apple laptop computers. The reporter was told — by a computer expert who has since left the newspaper — that the touchpad wouldn't work because of the reporter's body chemistry.

    What do I believe? I tend to doubt that some people are "wired" in such a way that they crash computers or wreck wristwatches. However, I'm not positive I'm right. And I've heard the same stories that you have. Besides, my stepson (quite honestly) seems capable of crashing a computer by simply walking near one. I can't explain it, but that doesn't in any way mean that it's true. Coincidence is a powerful factor that often explains many weird happenings.

    When I did some research on the Web, I found a fascinating Web page from Princeton University that takes a look at how humans interact with computers and other devices in unexplained ways. While it does not discuss the wristwatch problem, it offers research into cases where machines act in strange ways that "can only be attributed to the influence of the consciousness of the human operator."

    That page is located at www.princeton.edu/~pear/ and is labeled "Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research." You'll find the names and credentials of the engineers and academics who work on the project there.

    Of course, research papers and professors are not always correct. But it makes for interesting reading.
    ------------------

    I'm just of the opinion that Geezer is wired up wrong . . . I mean gee read his posts!
    (giggle, giggle, snort)

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    I don't know what would happen if I unplugged them and then put them right back in the same outlet. Interesting.
    The reason I mentioned that is sometimes "off" isn't really "off". The switch on the front doesn't totally power the computer down even tho it looks like it is 'off'. There's typically another switch on the BACK (at the power supply) that is real "kill switch". And some don't even have that. They expect you to pull the plug if you need a total power down.

    So if something freaked out in the computer then removing all power from the wall would let it reset (which is what pulling the plug accomplished). Of course you could unplug it, dance naked in a circle 10 times while chanting "Go computer, Go computer, Go!" and then plug it back in.... which accomplish the same thing but it doesn't mean the middle part had any bearing on anything even tho the computer would fire back up after you did it

    That's the same effect as putting it in a different outlet each time when you replug it.... What matters was that you unplugged and plugged it back in. Not that you plugged it in another outlet.

    Geezer... I think a big beefy PS in your computer probably solves it. Unless something has happened to your home power lately (or you've added some power sucking things to your home) and you've had other computers in there with no problem then I'd look to the power supply.

    A $10.00 Radio Shack tester or Lowes Multi-Meter (DMM or VOM) would tell whether you'd be wasting your time and money to involve an electrician. Unless you know a 'sparky' who'll do it for a beer, it'll cost way more than 10-15.00 to tell you the voltage is OK (or not). If you test it yourself and see that it's low, THEN call the electrician. If it's OK then you just saved a ton of money and the little meter is always handy to have around in the tool box.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Thanks BBall.....new electrical devices like my Brand New 96 inch Plasma tv with 5.1 (x2) Surround sound and additional sub-woofers???? Would that cause a power drain??? Or Geezerettes newly rebuilt 1960's tube type Fender Bandmaster AMP and matching dual speakers for her Peavey Electric guitar??

    Nah, I don't think so either.

    Nope, I'm leaning toward that heavy Duty PS myself. The Mrs just confirmed that none of our other computers have had that problem in this room. SO either this is a weak PS or the wrong one.

    Oh and yes, there is a kill switch on the back...I'd forgotten that.

    Thanks again
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Thanks BBall.....new electrical devices like my Brand New 96 inch Plasma tv with 5.1 (x2) Surround sound and additional sub-woofers???? Would that cause a power drain??? Or Geezerettes newly rebuilt 1960's tube type Fender Bandmaster AMP and matching dual speakers for her Peavey Electric guitar??

    Nah, I don't think so either.

    Nope, I'm leaning toward that heavy Duty PS myself. The Mrs just confirmed that none of our other computers have had that problem in this room. SO either this is a weak PS or the wrong one.

    Oh and yes, there is a kill switch on the back...I'd forgotten that.

    Thanks again
    96"!!!!!!!!

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Yeah, Wow! They need to have the next forum party at Geezer's while a game is going on!

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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    This is almost certainly an issue with your computer's power supply. The reason changing plugs would fix it is the act of unplugging it "resets" the power supply, which enables it to try again.

    The power supply is a $30-$70 fix, is fairly easy and straightforward to replace. That'd be my first attempt at a fix.

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    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    It's probably the Fetzer valve. You'll need some ball bearings and anti-freeze. Preferably Prestone. No... Make that Quaker State.
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    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    With a 96" screen, I can see the game from North Carolina. Geez, where's the whiskey cabinet????

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron View Post
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    With a 96" screen, I can see the game from North Carolina. Geez, where's the whiskey cabinet????
    WHISKEY!?!?!?!......Thou doest Blaspheme!!........It's BOURBON MAN BOURBON!!!!




    and the 96" was a tiny bit exaggeration.......it's more like 42" LCD.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    and the 96" was a tiny bit exaggeration.......it's more like 42" LCD.

    Ahh, I see, its the typical male ego compensation. Or was that compensation for something else.....

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    I consume tiny briefs Robobtowncolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Bourbon? Do you usually wear a dress when you drink, too?
    Narf!

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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Thanks BBall.....new electrical devices like my Brand New 96 inch Plasma tv with 5.1 (x2) Surround sound and additional sub-woofers????

    Wow!

    Very nice


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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
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    Wow!

    Very nice


    Yeah, and they say it's a SLOOOOOW Real Estate Market.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    dennaB Twes's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Yeah, and they say it's a SLOOOOOW Real Estate Market.

    You can't take it with you...

    And you can't come back for it.

    What the hell.

    I know you're not spending it on treestands.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Twes View Post
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    You can't take it with you...

    And you can't come back for it.

    What the hell.

    I know you're not spending it on treestands.
    Geezer just found out last month that deer are supposingly landing on his rooftop every December, so he doesn't think he needs one now.

  23. #23
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Geezer just found out last month that deer are supposingly landing on his rooftop every December, so he doesn't think he needs one now.
    Altho the neighbors look at him funny sitting on the roof, wearing camoflauge soaked in deer urine, and holding a rifle.... not that there's anything wrong with that.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Altho the neighbors look at him funny sitting on the roof, wearing camoflauge soaked in deer urine, and holding a rifle.... not that there's anything wrong with that.

    -Bball
    ALRIGHT A guy does that ONE time......................
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: OK technogeeks (or electricians), here's a problem for ya

    HOUSTON WE MAY BE NEAR A LANDING!!!

    7:00 this AM (17 minutes ago) I sit down at the 'puter and logon to the net and start answering a message. BAM!!! She shuts down. I immediately jumped up and threw that switch on the back of the 'puter to off and then on and hit the start button immediately....LO and BEHOLD she started up...no unplugging of plugs needed.

    So, those that suggested the "sleep mode" or whatever seem to have been on the right track. Now, why? Today I'll check with a friend who is an IT guru for SBC about a new power supply.


    and to think, I was ready to order a new Dell. OK...lessee when I saved the wife 3 grand by repairing rather than replacing the water softener she let me buy the new TV...so for saving about $500 on a new computer I should get.....a fax machine for home?????
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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