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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

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In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

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If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

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  • #1

    Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

    I've been a Mavs season ticket holder since '83, so I'm dying for details on what to expect from the guys we're getting from you. I figured you guys would like details from someone who's seen most of the games played by your incoming players as well, so, here's my take.

    I love me some 'Quis. We used to call him and Josh Howard the twins. Almost the same body, came in as rookies together, and Quis actually had the better year. He is great slasher with an uncanny ability to get open in the lane for a little jump shot. Not too good a shooter outside of 15 feet, but moves well without the ball, sort of a poor mans Rip Hamilton. A very poor man's. He had this great rookie season,averaged like 16 points against Sac in the playoffs, got a nice contract, then hurt his ankle in the off season. He didn't get well until January, then he had apendicitis. Just about the time he got back, the coach who loved him, Don Nelson, retired. New coach Avery Johnson demanded consistancy and Quis didn't really deliver. Still, in December of his 3rd season, he ended up starting about 25 games and was averaging about 17 points. Then Kurt Thomas tomahawked him in the neck and he must have misssed 20 games. The Mavs put in Adrian Griffin and went on something like a 13 game winning streak. When Quis returned, he never started again. The good news is, whenever he gets minutes, he's productive. And the injuries were mainly fluke stuff, not the kind you'd expect to recur. He does look like he's half asleep all the time. If he works on his jump shot, he can be a very good 2. He handles the ball well enough to play some point, but not against little quick guys like Speedy Claxton. In playoff game 6, our top 2 point guards got 2 fouls each halfway through the 1st quarter. As I started anticipating game 7, Quis came in, played point until deep into the 2nd quarter, when Terry and Harris each picked up their 3rd. Quis scored 12 points and saved the game. He's a good human being as well, which I guess after that incident is a good thing to have in Indy.

    That being the case, Darrell Armstrong is a great guy to have. You'd think at 38 he's be gassed, and his shot is about shot. But his heart is as big as Texas. He is a great leader. We used him as an energy guy, when the team looked lethargic. He'd go out like a waterbug and draw a charge off of anybody, no matter how big. ANd when you see a 38 year old guy give up his body, you have to love him, and his devotion really challenges his teammates to pick it up. The consumate old pro. You really don't want to be depending on him, but if you can spare a roster spot, he makes everyone around him better, even if he's not playing. We'll really miss him here. There was one game last year, i think in Seattle, a couple of games after Kobe put up 63 in 3 quarters on us. The mavs were playing in slo-mo, down double digits. In comes the Super Spare. He dives for a ball out of bounds and hits a chair so hard with his head, I cringe just to remember. He didn't come back, but that play won the game. How coud anybody look an old man in the eye and say, "sorry about the concussion, but we still couldn't beat Seatte?"

    Your team shoud be sure to bring Howard and Marshall to camp. The Mavs are very good at finding guys who get missed in the draft. That's how they got 'Quis. Rawle is a slasher who was improving quickly. The Mavs had a lot of injuries last year, so he started 9 games as a rookie. He was in a bit over his head but showed real promise. Powell is more of a banger. A true blue collar rebounder, works hard on D but the way they call fouls on rookies, its hard to tell how good he can be. He only takes shots he can make, inside 18 feet, but he has a very nice little jumper. With Van Horn injured, Powell got to back up Dirk a lot. I was prepared to have him as Dirk's main backup, I was so frustrated at Van Horns shooting. I'd rather have a guy like Powell who's not taking 3's than KVH missing 75% of them and shooting everytime he touches the ball. but I digress. If we had room on the roster, I woudn't mind keeping these guys.

    But the Mavs believe Miami's maturity helped in the Finals, and the Mav's lack of it hurt. Hence the aquisition of AC and Johnson.

    I'd love to hear your comments, and get some equal feedback on Cro and Johnson.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Maveircks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

    Can a moderator correct my typo in the thread title please? All those years writing checks to Mark Cuban and it looks like I can't even spell the team name.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Maveircks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

      Hello M3Man. I'm a Pacers/Mavericks fan and I'm glad to have you on board. As far as the players that are coming to Dallas, all I have to say is that Anthony Johnson is a major upgrade over DA. He is more of a shoot-first point guard. He had a hell of a game against the Nets in the playoffs. Austin Croshere is an upgrade over Keith Van Horn I think. I cant wait to get rid of Keith Van Horn. But I think the most important thing is Croshere and AJ provide playoff experience which is what the Mavericks really need.

      I'm not very good at describing players so I hope that will give you some idea of what you'll expect from those two players.

      And again, welcome aboard!
      "Remember the pain of my fist. That is my power!"

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      • #4
        Re: Maveircks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

        Croshere is a consummate professional, great locker room guy, he hustles, and probably his strongest point on the floor, is he's a great free throw shooter.

        He should be a great backup for Dirk, he can really go after rebounds when he wants to, and always seems to come up with big plays in the 4th quarter.

        The only downfall with Croshere is if he starts trying to drive to the basket, he has one move he always uses, a crazy fakeout jab step, and then sloppy ball handling to get to the basket. But if gets a foul call, he's pretty much automatic from the stripe.

        I think you guys will appreciate his professionalism, and work ethic, I agree that he is an upgrade over Van Horn.



        Anthony Johnson is a steady point guard who won't make many mistakes, but he won't dazzle you either.

        He is consistent, but one major flaw as others have pointed out before, is that he absolutely cannot make the correct entry pass to the post, he just doesn't seem to have that natural PG instinct to really know where to get a guy the ball in scoring position down low.

        But, you probably won't need to rely on him for 1st string minutes, so that shouldn't be a problem.

        He is basically an SG, in a PG's body, but can't really handle hard pressure by quick guards getting up in his chest full court.

        You guys should be ok with him as your 3rd PG, but I wonder how he will deal with that, because he didn't like the thought of it here.

        I just don't see A.J. getting many minutes over Jet, and Devin Harris, but if one of your PG's gets injured, you know A.J. can give you good minutes.

        He'll very rarely shoot the lights out, but usually has a nice mid-range pull up jumper, and he won't have many double digit assist games.

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        • #5
          Re: Maveircks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

          We got ripped off in the AJ deal. 'Nuff said about that.

          As for the Croshere deal we might have gotten a better player, but Austin is a great teammate, a leader, and can have games where he is on fire. For post-game interviews and such, he always says the right things.

          AJ - B+
          AC - C+
          Super Bowl XLI Champions
          2000 Eastern Conference Champions




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          • #6
            Re: Maveircks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

            I think AJ and Cro are the perfect bench guys for you guys, especially if you want to start Jet and Devin together. I feel like this is the element you guys needed. Not the best players, not the most talented guys, just consistent guys who can contribute and AJ and Cro fit the bill. And the best part is that you gave up nothing that you'd miss on the court a lot. The Mavs have to be the favorite to win going into next year.

            EDIT: One problem that we had is that AJ lost some consistency at times. For example, when Tinsley was injured he was fabulous as a starter but then when Tinsley came back, AJ just failed to prove himself and lost the spot again after some awful games.

            As for Cro, sure he is the consummate professional, but there's more to him. Truth is that I would have some concern as to how he can hold up playing a faster-paced game in the West. Not to worry though because he is a definite upgrade over van Horn and he can definitely be a great backup at the 4.

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            • #7
              Re: Maveircks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

              You'll love Cro giving Dirk a break ... he'll do exactly what u ask and always be a steady solid guy ... perfect for your bench! not gunna be any problem with him ... just generally a good guy

              AJ will just walk around with a flashing Neon Light saying "i back up Jason" which is fine ... he can step in and score a few points of the bench and take the pressure and allow your starters minutes off in the middle of games. He may frustrate you at times being a shoot first PG and go for a runner rather than pass it up for Dirk or someone! ... but generally he will serve u well IMO

              I think there great aquisitions for your team .. strengthening depth and providing solidity of the bench .. in my view the mavs have made some great moves this offseason ... jsut adding to there roster solid role players that they can rely on ...much like miami last yr but with less of the Egos and possible conflicts, picking up ager in the draft was also a great gain for you! .... i wish AJ and Cro all the best and hope they serve you well ...

              In return Quis im sure will be very effective weather he backs up 2/3 or start at shooting! as for DA ... not so sure but at least he will be a solid pro with plenty of experience and energy!

              Cheers
              'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.'
              Animal Farm, by George Orwell

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              • #8
                Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                The common thought seems to be that Croshere is an upgrade over Keith Van Horn. That would not have been the case a few seasons ago, I always considered Van Horn a better player, clearly better. I realize Van Horn has had a number of injuries the past few seasons and perhaps that has limited his effectiveness, so maybe Cro is better than KVH now, but if I were a Mavs fan (which I kind of am) I wouldn't be so quick to suggest that Cro is better than Van Horn.

                I remember many discussions in this forum over the years comparing Cro and Keith and the overwhelming concensus always was that Keith was just better across the board. But like I said maybe Keith's game has fallen off. I mean Van Horn has had 8 seasons where he averaged more than 15 points per game.

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                • #9
                  Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                  Given UB's comments I'll say this Austin is quit simply a guy who will play
                  through an injury. Many times he was the only player on
                  our team to step up and play with busted ribs and the like.

                  As for AJ I use to hate him as our backup for the main fact that our
                  starter is so different from AJ. Late passes and boring to watch AJ is
                  one thing "consistent". He is a pretty good defender and he really doesn't
                  get muscled by larger pg however he is to slow for the quick pg.

                  Both are good locker room guys and will stay ready to play when called upon
                  which is what you expect from a backup. Good luck with our boys.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                    They are both decent and professional players. Something that I would be worried about with both players is that they both seem to need some real minutes to be effective.

                    AJ is ok as a back up, but I doubt he would flourish in an up-tempo offense, but he was actually at his best as a starter. People grumbled about him as a backup and were ok with his play when he started.

                    Croshere, even more then AJ IMO needs real minutes to be effective. When he was used by Zeke when he was coaching here he would only get a few minutes (and a lot of times at an unsuited position for him) and generally suck.

                    Rick was a breath of fresh-air to him I reckon. He was used as a backup 4 and in a few games even as a backup 5. Backup 4 is where he should play and if he's in the game 15-25 minutes he will do quite nice for you.

                    IF you play him like 10 minutes, expect to be dissappointed. A real hustler and good lockerroom presence, won't complain. Likes the 3 a little too much on occasion. Good pick up for you guys I would say.

                    Regards,

                    Mourning
                    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                      Thanks for your input.

                      You'll find the posters here to be informed and, for the most part, appreciative of the opportunity to share views with fans of other teams. However, with that said, I tend to not value Cro and AJ as much as many here do.

                      I think they are average NBA players. They'll have some good moments for you and they'll have some not-so-good moments for you. I think they are both rather inconsistent. Neither guy will hurt you to have on the team, but your season won't be hurt much if you lost either for a long period due to injury.

                      Croshere had the huge NBA Finals for us, but other than that, I think his career has been rather blah. I think a case can be made that he has been a first round bust. For instance, if Danny Granger has the same kind of career as Croshere, I think many Pacers fans would be very disappointed.

                      I think when it is all said and done, AJ's career will resemble that of a player like Kevin Ollie. Not in how they play per se, but as a guy who will have a decent career and play for a lot of teams. Basically I think Cro and AJ will add to your depth, but not have too much of an impact on your season.

                      Like I said earlier though, I value the opinions of those on this board, and I think many will disagree with my assessment. So, I very well could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time).

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                        Croshere is a better rebounder and defender against bigger people than KVH with fewer injury issues, I see him as a small tough reasonably athletic 4.

                        KVH is a better and more consistent shooter, and has more mobility, and is more of a wing player.

                        AJ is a good shooter and built like a fire hydrant so he doesn't get pushed around on D.
                        The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

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                        • #13
                          Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                          Originally posted by Mourning
                          Croshere, even more then AJ IMO needs real minutes to be effective. When he was used by Zeke when he was coaching here he would only get a few minutes (and a lot of times at an unsuited position for him) and generally suck.

                          Rick was a breath of fresh-air to him I reckon.


                          Ah, forget it. He's a Mav now. Just allow me to say, for the record, that I strongly disagree with the idea that Zeke was unfair to Croshere or that Carlisle was better to him. If not for the injuries and suspensions of the last 2 years, Cro would have gotten the same amount of burn under Carlisle as he did under Zeke.
                          This space for rent.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                            Originally posted by Anthem


                            Ah, forget it. He's a Mav now. Just allow me to say, for the record, that I strongly disagree with the idea that Zeke was unfair to Croshere or that Carlisle was better to him. If not for the injuries and suspensions of the last 2 years, Cro would have gotten the same amount of burn under Carlisle as he did under Zeke.
                            His highest min played under Rick : 1827 (Brawl year), in his first year under Zeke he played 1874 min In Rick's first year he played 1057 minutes, which is less then 2 out of 3 season with Zeke, in the last year he played 1148 which is still less then 2 out of the 3 years under Zeke.
                            So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                            If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                            Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mavericks Fan's Take on New Pacers; Wants Feedback on New Mavs

                              Yeah - I'll happily dog Zeke as much or more than the next guy but not giving AC a shot isn't one of the reasons. I think his first season IT came into the season firmly convinced that Austin would be a starter - but after 20 games where he shot like 35% and revealed all of his limitations, that idea was gone.

                              Isiah gave AC every chance to show he was starter material and he flunked that test badly.
                              The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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