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Thread: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

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    Default IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Flawed conclusion
    Last summer, Johnson foresaw being traded, but not recently

    By Mike Wells
    mike.wells@indystar.com


    Anthony Johnson saw this coming last summer.

    Johnson was just a couple of months removed from playing a key role in the Indiana Pacers' playoff run when the team signed point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius. Johnson quickly surmised he could be the odd man out, demoted to third string behind starter Jamaal Tinsley and Jasikevicius.


    "The thought was in my head," Johnson said in a phone interview Tuesday. "They signed Sarunas, then they hyped him up with his jersey hanging in the store and doing other promotions about him. I knew they wouldn't be able to keep three guys that want to play major minutes."


    Johnson, traded to the Dallas Mavericks on Monday, changed his mind somewhat after he stepped in for the injured Tinsley again and put up career numbers, including walking off the Conseco Fieldhouse court to a standing ovation following a 40-point performance in a Game 6 loss to the New Jersey Nets in the playoffs.


    That notion vanished Saturday when Johnson learned the Pacers agreed to trade him for Darrell Armstrong, Josh Powell and Rawle Marshall because they wanted to avoid a point guard controversy and poor chemistry this season.


    "I'm a little surprised," said Johnson, who avoided most phone calls for several days. "I was tripping because (the Pacers) wouldn't take my agent's calls to tell him what was going on. They told me why they did it after the deal became official.


    "At the same time, I felt like I was one of the most reliable players on the team. I always took pride in being ready when guys were out of the lineup. I felt like I cemented a spot as one of the guys they would build around."


    Johnson started 89 games the past two seasons. His contract and reliability made him easier to trade. The Pacers think Tinsley gives them the better chance to win, but they also thought it would be tougher to move an injury-prone player who is signed through 2010-11.


    Then there was the issue of whether Johnson would accept being Tinsley's backup again next season.


    "If Jamaal came in in great shape and played the way he's capable of playing, I wouldn't have had no problem with that," Johnson said. "At the same time, though, if there's a competition and I'm playing the best, I feel like I should play the most. I just know the best guy should play and that's how I feel about that."


    Johnson got people's attention when he said the team's "culture has to change" at the end of their 41-41 season.


    "It's no secret they have issues," he said. "You can talk about injures, but you also have to talk about professionalism and being ready to play when the ball goes up. We didn't have the ship pointed in the right direction as far as being rested, being ready to play and playing with pure heart.


    "I wasn't afraid to say the culture has to change because it does. It's not the front office; it's the players and the coaches. I respect (CEO) Donnie (Walsh) and (president) Larry (Bird); they're doing what's best for the franchise. I feel like I earned (coach) Rick Carlisle's respect with the way I played. I thank them for sending me to a team like Dallas."

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...607260411/1088

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    Raw Talent Robertmto's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    so he was blackballed?
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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    Says all the right things, but we knew he'd do that much.

    Smooth sailing, A.J.

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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Johnson
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    I wasn't afraid to say the culture has to change because it does. It's not the front office; it's the players and the coaches. I respect (CEO) Donnie (Walsh) and (president) Larry (Bird); they're doing what's best for the franchise.
    I think we need to pay attention to what he said, especially this.

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    Member NorCal_Pacerfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    I'm glad for both he and Cro that they are going to a decent franchise. It's too bad for AJ his salary was so low, which made it almost too easy to trade him.

    Good luck in Dallas AJ, say hi to Cro for me.
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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    AJ is a very smart and honest man.
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    Member jjbjjbjjb's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I think we need to pay attention to what he said, especially this.
    Sure, but, he may be the player to which he unwittingly refers!

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    I found it interesting that he blamed the coaches as well as the players for the culture but then commended himself for earning Rick's respect. Does that mean that Rick was never the problem? Could someone like Kevin O'Neill and the fact that there was no players' coach there ala Mike Brown have affected this team more than we originally thought?

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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    I'm positive O'Neill was part of the problem, at least. Rick's not exactly a social dynamite either.

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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    "If Jamaal came in in great shape and played the way he's capable of playing, I wouldn't have had no problem with that," Johnson said. "At the same time, though, if there's a competition and I'm playing the best, I feel like I should play the most. I just know the best guy should play and that's how I feel about that."
    This about says it all. "Best" can be a subjective thing in some people's minds. And it's clear he thinks he's a starting caliber PG. He would not have been happy playing behind Tinsley, if that's the plan.


    "At the same time, I felt like I was one of the most reliable players on the team. I always took pride in being ready when guys were out of the lineup. I felt like I cemented a spot as one of the guys they would build around."
    I feel for AJ because he must have felt he had a career season and that his days as a back-up PG were over.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Quote Originally Posted by bulletproof
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    This about says it all. "Best" can be a subjective thing in some people's minds. And it's clear he thinks he's a starting caliber PG. He would not have been happy playing behind Tinsley, if that's the plan.

    I feel for AJ because he must have felt he had a career season and that his days as a back-up PG were over.
    I agree with all of this. Unfortunately, AJ is a career "starter on a bad team, back-up on a good team" and if we want to be a good team, he can't be our starting PG permanently. That's all there is to it.

  12. #12

    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Unfortunately, AJ != Cro. I miss him now even more.
    I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    "I'm a little surprised," said Johnson, who avoided most phone calls for several days. "I was tripping because (the Pacers) wouldn't take my agent's calls to tell him what was going on. They told me why they did it after the deal became official.
    So what was the reason

  14. #14
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    In the first part of the interview, you clearly sent the jealousy Anthony Johnson feels towards other players such as Saras; he always thought that he doesn't get enough respect for what he does, and that results in a chronical state of frustration.
    It is possible that the Pacers realized they wouldn't be able to give Johnson what he wants and preferred to move him on instead of keeping an incontent player.

    I wasn't afraid to say the culture has to change because it does. It's not the front office; it's the players and the coaches. I respect (CEO) Donnie (Walsh) and (president) Larry (Bird); they're doing what's best for the franchise.
    I believe that he is indeed critizising Carlisle here. Yes, Carlisle liked him and gave him a lot of chances. But I think he, as a guy who has gotten to where he is with hard work, hates to see how some people on this team can do whatever they want and get away with it, because Carlisle surely won't intervene. AJ has seen all the bad character stuff Tinsley has pulled & and all the pseudo-injuries, & still, once he feels like coming back to play, he is per definitionem the starter, no matter how much he actually sucks.

    Now, just let me get to one more point, that I hope all of you will adress!
    I think that it is more than shameful to see how players are treated by the clubs and by the trade modus in the NBA. You just lost one player who gave his best for this club for 3 years, you lost another player, who played for the Pacers for, oh I don't know, almost a decade?
    Where are these players now? They are just gone, and you didn't give them a proper departure at all, did you? No official goodbye ceremony, no thank you from the fans, nothing?
    Many of you often say that Indiana has the best basketball fans in the world, probably the best sports fans in the whole world. If that is the case, how come there is no salute, no nothing to two players that loyally played for the Pacers for over 10 years combined? I even completely forgot about Fred Jones, who was thrown away without a word from one day to the other, without the fans organizing anything for him.

    In Europe, fans say goodbye to their players in an appropriate way, especially the ones that have given the fans and the club a lot. I think it is unbelievable that a guy like Austin Croshere is just dropped without a word from the fans. It looks to me like the only players that get a decent farewell from their clubs and most of all fans, are the few ones, who get their jersey retired, which happens once in 10 years.

    When Saras left Maccabi Tel Aviv after only two seasons, the Maccabi fan clubs made approximately 10 different homage videos for him, and he was heavily celebrated with standing ovations with one of those videos being played for him on the bigscreen. So was Anthony Parker when he left.
    Have a look, this is what fans that care for their players do:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hteh7...h=jasikevicius

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    How did the Bayern faithful treat Michael Ballack?

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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ballinhoop
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    When Saras left Maccabi Tel Aviv after only two seasons, the Maccabi fan clubs made approximately 10 different homage videos for him, and he was heavily celebrated with standing ovations with one of those videos being played for him on the bigscreen. So was Anthony Parker when he left.
    Have a look, this is what fans that care for their players do:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hteh7...h=jasikevicius
    Austin doesn't have a whole lot of video-ready moments.

    If he'd led us to a championship, though, I bet some would have tried.
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    3ballinhoop
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom
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    How did the Bayern faithful treat Michael Ballack?
    Please, your argumentation of finding an exception is the one of a child. If you believe you have a valid point, elaborate it.

    Still, I will comment on it. Michael Ballack got a very nice and respectful goodbye ceremony connected to the celebration of the Bundesliga championship trophy. The speculations about his transfer had gone on for almost 8 months, which made a big part of the Bayern Munich fans dislike him.
    A small part of the 65000 fans whistled, which really sucked, but doesn't in any way change the fact that he got a nice goodbye from the majority of the fans and the club.

    I don't see what that has to do with a player like Croshere, who played almost a decade for the Pacers & then gets kicked out without any goodbyes from the same fans that claim to be the best in the world. The same thing goes, but to a lesser extent because of the fewer years spent in Indiana, for Anthony Johnson and Fred Jones.
    I mean, the club should definitely organize something for their players, but if they don't, at least those great fans should.
    It is astonishing and definitely an aspect of sports where the NBA can learn a lot from other leagues.

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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Austin will be cheered when he returns. I won't be surprised if he gets a standing ovation.

    With the amount of movement in the NBA, though, doing a goodbye ceremony for each outgoing player would be brutal.
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    You must have missed the Reggie retirement ceremony.
    Austin was extremely well compensated for his service.
    When Austin comes back next year to play against the Pacers I am
    confident he will recieve a warm welcome. He deserves that.
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ballinhoop
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    .
    this is what fans that care for their players do:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hteh7...h=jasikevicius

    Yes, the way Reggie was treated upon retirement was terrible.

    Can't wait to see your video montage of the vendor guy who's going to retire.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  21. #21
    3ballinhoop
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    The only one who missed something is you, who apparently didn't read what i wrote properly. I mentioned the once in a decade or less players who have the fortune to actually be given a goodbye celebration by the fans, but they are not representative for the way players are sent off from the team and fans.

    I can't believe that you out of pure conviction that the clearly sad way it is done in the NBA must be the right way, actually try to argue that it is ok to just let a player who played for your team for so many years walk away without anything being organized for him before he leaves Indianapolis. When he comes back to Indiana with Dallas, that will not be a goodbye, but a hello. I personally like to look at this kind of sport spectators as "fanalysts", with a little more distance and less pathos and love for the team and its players.

    You know what the funny thing is? You guys probably read what i wrote and thought: "Damn, look at that european dude trying to critizise our NBA and fan culture, damn those europeans, next he will for sure come up with that we like to eat popcorn, fries and them big macs and sit silently in the arena instead of cheering on our team. Damn, I'm going to reply and tell him that we do it the right way".
    Instead, you could have just thought that 3ballinhoop is indeed right here. Maybe it would be nice to organize something special for a longtime Pacer like Croshere, a goodbye that touches him and gives the fans a very memorable moment. Pacers fans love their team, and that should reflect in the goodbye one of the most loyal players gets.

    Wouldn't that be a cooler happening for the real fans than thinking about all the numbers that make trades work or not work & possible stats & salary cap & projected scoring of the new lineup on a daily basis? How much emotion do you really want involved in the team?

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    Member Ron who?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    its amazing what the NBA does to a guy isnt it... from being a Hero to being basically garbage

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    Member Ron who?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    Talking about Sarunas of course

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    Default Re: IndyStar} Flawed conclusion

    3Ball, Croshere was paid well while here, he probably received acknowledgement EVERY day by fans who would see him on the street asking for autographs or a shout. He received applause when he would check into a game. He would receive applause when he would make a good play. Guess what???? That was enough.

    I don't remember Austin coming up to me personally when I drop $300 a game and thanking me for helping him get paid for a job he loves. No, I think I'll hold back on the tears thank you very much.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: IS: {Flawed conclusion}

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I think we need to pay attention to what he said, especially this.
    Yes, and this

    "If Jamaal came in in great shape"

    He's obviously doubting that
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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