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Thread: A team the fans will be proud of????

  1. #1

    Default A team the fans will be proud of????

    So far, the Pacers have traded Austin and AJ. They have let Fred go (which I agree with). Assuming no more trades....is this a team that the fans will be proud of? Have Donnie and Larry already forgotten about the "boos" coming from the home crowd? Have they already forgotten about all the empty seats???????

    It seems to me, that the three players released so far where certainly not "problems" from the fan's point of view. What I mean is, these were not players that stood around and complained to the refs (which Wells has already accused White of doing in the summer league), or disrespected the coach (in the public). Obviously, none of us know what was going on in the lockerroom, maybe these 3 players were a pain in the ***?????

    We still have Jackson, Tinsley and Harrison (who I think cries to the refs way too much for a big guy - must be learning it from JO)...Be honest, none of us expected Tinsley and Jackson to still be on this team...nor do the paying fans at Conseco......

    If Al does come to the Pacers, will that change anything? The fans really liked Al.......lord, let's hope there are some more trades.......

  2. #2
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    No... they have so far not addressed the 'problems' IMHO.

    I think they have to address the issue at least with one of the core in order to send a signal to all current and even future players that certain things are expected of an Indiana Pacer and the lunatics won't run the asylum.

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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    i think jax will be moved no matter what. i expect tinsley to be our starter come opening night, but i wouldn't be shocked to see him and jax being packaged together if it would land us a top tier PG, someone like a bibby, andre miller, etc.

    i do not expect harrison to be moved. i doubt foster will go either. a frontcourt rotation of harrington, jo, harrison, and foster is top 3 in the league easy.

    all that is left to do is unload jax and use our MLE and VE to round out our roster. who could we land with jax??? obviously we need a shooter who can give us 25 mins a night. korver, turkgolu, brent barry, crawford, JJ, jarvis hayes, & luke jackson are all shooters i would imagine are available for the right price.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    This reminds me of what I said at the party. We've been told the team was divided into "cliques", and I said I wanted to know what they were so I could pick sides.

    Looks to me like the wrong clique won.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    I agree.

    TPTB don't need to do anything to please or appease the fans. But they need to do what it takes to restore the team, both on the floor and in the huddle and the locker room, to harmony and sanity.

    I imagine the bad attitudes and hot words that we witnessed from time to time in the Pacers' huddle were more common and more intense in the locker room. Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird know it won't work to allow that tension to carry over to a new season. They need to make the change, and I believe they're going to get 'er done.
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Unless we aren't privy to as much info as we like to think we are and AJ and Fred really were the problems. I do not think it is unreasonable to believe that AJ may have complained about his constant state of limbo with the team even though he bailed us out. I also don't think it is unreasonable to think the Fred may have had issues with his role every once in a while. Wait and see I would say. This team is a lot different then the one that ended the season. Far too early to say how the fans will view them come game 1.

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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    This reminds me of what I said at the party. We've been told the team was divided into "cliques", and I said I wanted to know what they were so I could pick sides.

    Looks to me like the wrong clique won.
    It's not that the wrong clique won. It points out that in order to move a player, someone else has to want them. Look at the players who are gone so far. They are all "good citizen" types without attitude issues.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    This reminds me of what I said at the party. We've been told the team was divided into "cliques", and I said I wanted to know what they were so I could pick sides.

    Looks to me like the wrong clique won.
    Looks to me like it's still early in the off-season. Okay, we're almost at the midway point, but we still have a whole lotta summer ahead of us.

  9. #9
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by bulletproof
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    Looks to me like it's still early in the off-season. Okay, we're almost at the midway point, but we still have a whole lotta summer ahead of us.
    That's why I try and stick caveats into my comments these days. There's still time. IDEALLY I'd hope to see the malcontents and anchors dealt with upfront BUT realistically, it could take time to move flawed players with question marks surrounding them (and get the best possible deal.. But please management, don't overvalue these guys either).

    OTOH, it's a bit scary to see this much movement besides the above. It does start to paint a picture of a team putting up new siding on a house that has rotten floor joists.

    But there's still time... I don't have a problem with taking a bulldozer to this team so if there are more moves coming then that is fine by me. But if we're putting up siding and ignoring the rotten flooring then count me as unimpressed that we're wasting a year.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Well we still haven't addressed our problems as BBall said.

    And i'm thinking that Tinsley may be the least likely to go for several reasons. One being he is probably the best point guard we can have and Jackson is much more expandable with the Marquis Daniels trade.

  11. #11

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    That's why I try and stick caveats into my comments these days. There's still time. IDEALLY I'd hope to see the malcontents and anchors dealt with upfront BUT realistically, it could take time to move flawed players with question marks surrounding them (and get the best possible deal.. But please management, don't overvalue these guys either).

    OTOH, it's a bit scary to see this much movement besides the above. It does start to paint a picture of a team putting up new siding on a house that has rotten floor joists.

    But there's still time... I don't have a problem with taking a bulldozer to this team so if there are more moves coming then that is fine by me. But if we're putting up siding and ignoring the rotten flooring then count me as unimpressed that we're wasting a year.

    -Bball
    Maybe AJ and Cro were the real problems.




    Seriously though, if Jackson and Tinsley are truly as cancerous as a lot of us seem to think they are, then I'm sure every effort will be made to move them. The problem is, if management falls into the ol' equal value trap. But then, Jackson and Tinsley don't present a clear and present danger to this team like Ron did.

    Still though, I see more changes on the horizon. If we keep Tinsley, Rick has to go. If we keep Rick, Tins has to go. I can live with Jackson if he shows a vast improvement in attitude, which can be quickly demonstrated if he quits yapping at the refs. The first time he does that and doesn't get back up court to defend his man, he needs to be seriously reprimanded.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Food for thought: The reason Ron Artest may well NOT ever explode in Sacramento is because they've handed him the keys to the team, not tried to "contain" him or his personality in anyway, and basically said "do what you do".

    This isn't exactly the same, but it may be how we've decided to treat the "bad apples" since either we value the talent too much, or we can't get anything back for them that we can swallow.

    Either way, if the idea is we can't (or won't) get rid of them, then it's smart to get rid of the people that opposed them, while bringing in people with good character and leadership. And in Al's case, a lot of talent as well.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    This reminds me of what I said at the party. We've been told the team was divided into "cliques", and I said I wanted to know what they were so I could pick sides.

    Looks to me like the wrong clique won.
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Oh I'm sure you'll be checking in periodically throughout the off-season to see what else we do.

  15. #15

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Maybe the wrong clique won, but not if by some chance Jax is still on the team and is a jerk or mouths off at the refs and doesn't play D, then Marquis can play for him, not freakin' Sarunas.

    And if Harrison has similar whiny fits, we can keep going small with the JO-Al-Danny frontline and hopefully a backup vet C yet to be determined.

    I'm worried as I can be about Tinsley's injuries, but maybe Marquis is the long-term answer there too.

    So taking these three things together, we are OK so long as Harrison and Jax are not pouting at the refs while Tinsley is injured.

    I admit I was hoping to get rid of those guys, but at least Rick will have the option of sitting them down for attitude reasons and not suffering for lack of talent on the floor.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    In his year end press conference, Bird continually stressed that the CHEMISTRY of the team must change. To date, how has it changed? I do not see how the chemistry of the team has improved.

    To quote Bird "The chemistry's got to be better and the attitudes during games: arguing with the officials, not running back on defense, taking bad shots; all that stuff's got to stop. It's got to be a unit or it won't work."

    How has any of this been improved with the moves (again, to date)???????

    The conversation must have gone like this:

    Bird: guys, I am not going to trade any of you - well, because nobody wants you. But, you need to stop crying...and stop taking bad shots.

    Jermaine, Harrison and Jackson: ok boss.......no problem, whatever you say. Whatever pleases the fans.

    After Bird leaves the room

    Jermaine, Harrison and Jackson: Bird can kiss my ***.....I've seen the black and white footage of him when he played for the Celtics.....that cat shot the ball from half-court. And crying? Give me a break--like he did not whine when showtime was in town kicking his ***..........

  17. #17

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Food for thought: The reason Ron Artest may well NOT ever explode in Sacramento is because they've handed him the keys to the team, not tried to "contain" him or his personality in anyway, and basically said "do what you do".

    This isn't exactly the same, but it may be how we've decided to treat the "bad apples" since either we value the talent too much, or we can't get anything back for them that we can swallow.

    Either way, if the idea is we can't (or won't) get rid of them, then it's smart to get rid of the people that opposed them, while bringing in people with good character and leadership. And in Al's case, a lot of talent as well.

  18. #18

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by FSU-IU
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    How has any of this been improved with the moves (again, to date)???????
    Depth has improved--Jax or Tinsley can now be replaced by Marquis, and Harrison can be replaced by a small lineup or Foster.

    We have depth so the whiners can be sat down and we don't have 6'3" people like Saras and Freddie backing them up at SG and SF.

    Unless Jermaine continues to be a whiner. He can't be replaced.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  19. #19
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie
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    Well we still haven't addressed our problems as BBall said.

    And i'm thinking that Tinsley may be the least likely to go for several reasons. One being he is probably the best point guard we can have and Jackson is much more expandable with the Marquis Daniels trade.
    OMG - Jackson's going to get bigger
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    We can be proud of our players that are currently in our line-up. We have a leader and top 15 player in Jermaine with ridicilous amount of talent on the squad. We gave A.J. away so he could play with another team more minutes while Sarunas can get a chance at back-up PG because he's Larry's boy and I expect Tinsley to be healthy this year and if has some injuries...we have Marquis Daniels and Greene who can help...

    As for Jack, at least he played hurt and contributed to our team the last two seasons. Without him and his game, we would not even have been in the playoffs and we wouldn't have won that series against Boston the year before too. Jack is a warrior.

  21. #21

    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    At this time, I'd like to point out that Jackson was an integral part to a Spurs championship team, so unless he's a completely different person, he's not the cancer he's made out to be, or he would have sabotaged that Spurs team enough for them to lose.

  22. #22
    ARTESTINMYHEART
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar
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    At this time, I'd like to point out that Jackson was an integral part to a Spurs championship team, so unless he's a completely different person, he's not the cancer he's made out to be, or he would have sabotaged that Spurs team enough for them to lose.
    Exactly! Stephen Jackson is the only Pacer to be a Champion and he has a ring to show for it...he will help bring Indy one too in the next couple of years but Ron may very well get one next season.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    I wish we all could conduct a PacersDigest chat interview with Donny and Larry. It would be nice to see what they heck they are doing.

    ...what id do to be a fly on the wall in the Pacers conference room...wow

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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar
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    At this time, I'd like to point out that Jackson was an integral part to a Spurs championship team, so unless he's a completely different person, he's not the cancer he's made out to be, or he would have sabotaged that Spurs team enough for them to lose.
    I am sure others will bring this up, it has been said a hundred times in other threads, but Jackson was in a COMPLETELY different situation back then then he is in now.

    Pop had a great "up and coming player" in Manu who was backing him up, and the minute he started arguing with the refs/his shooting was streaky, Pop would pull him.

    And just becaue you have a NBA ring doesnt mean you cant be a cancer.

  25. #25
    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: A team the fans will be proud of????

    Jackson, Miller, McKey, Davis, Smits.

    Something for Larry and Donnie to aspire to.
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