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Thread: Where do we rank now?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    As Hicks said, there are a couple intangibles that need to go the Pacers way but I think they COULD be one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the EC.

    And as far as a counter for Wade..... outside of Kobie does anyone? One man dont make a team. And Miami is getting long in the tooth outside of Wade.

    If the Pacers learn to play together, play smart and trust one another they can be a very good team. The talent is there. Just a matter of if they are willing to sacrifice individually for the betterment of the team.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Chicago
    Miami
    NJ
    Cleveland
    Detroit
    Indiana
    Orlando
    Milwaukee
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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus
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    I can't stand Miami so I refuse to put them first. I think that Chicago is going to be able to win a lot of regular season games, they have a good coach.
    But accually, I kinda see where your coming from with you list. As for Miami, I just don't see teams letting Wade get to the line as much as he did in the playoffs.
    I cant stand Miami and their MJ wanna be either, yeah thats right i cant stand wade. I dont accept Miami as champs...yeah they won it but not in my eyes. Indiana could beat them any day of the week
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    We'll see. I don't think my idea is as crazy as some of you think. All the experts, on this forum, on the internet, on TV, they all pretty much had Detroit and San Antonio in the Finals this year. It doesn't always go the way you think it should.

    And let's look at the teams that overtook Detroit and SA.

    Miami: A team that had taken Detroit to 7 games last season, minutes away from a finals appearance. A phenom in Wade, and a player in Shaq who stepped up when called upon in the ECF's and demolished Detroit in game 6. Good solid vets make up their supporting cast.

    Dallas: Was on top of the NBA all year. One of the 5 best players in the game in Dirk, a player in Terry who can score alot when called upon. Good solid vets all around.

    Both of those teams have coaches who the players responded well to all season long. Do the Pacers have that in Carlisle right now?

    The Pacers don't have a player on Wade's, Shaq's or Dirk's level. JO if healthy is close. The Pacers don't have a strong cast of role players like either of those teams. Maybe even more importantly, they don't have a coach that players on the team respond to in comparison to how Miami responded to Riley, and how Dallas responded to Johnson.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    I certainly wouldn't put us below Jersey.

    Given how important Ben has been to their success, I'm surprised that people don't expect much of a dropoff from Detroit.
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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
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    Miami has never "demolished" us, not even last year. For some odd reason, we match up with them very well.


    Regular season head to head matchups mean very little. So the Pacers beat them in November 2 times with Artest. Referring to November to make an argument to the Pacers abilities, that sounds familiar.. The Pacers always seem to beat the best teams in November, but by the time the season is over, the Pacers are nowhere to be found.

    Miami wasn't very good at the beginning. They didn't respond to Van Gundy like they did Riley. Lot's of teams had success against Miami this year, they lost 30 times.

    Detroit beat Miami 3 out of the 4 times they played them. Miami only won a game agaisnt them because Wade had a perfect 4th quarter. What happened in the playoffs? Miami eliminates Detroit in 6 games.

    You just can't look at the regular season, especially November games, to judge how a team compares against another.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    We'll see. I don't think my idea is as crazy as some of you think. All the experts, on this forum, on the internet, on TV, they all pretty much had Detroit and San Antonio in the Finals this year. It doesn't always go the way you think it should.
    Quote Originally Posted by bulletproof
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    Yep. I agree. And everyone thought Miami was going to be a mess this year.
    I hate it when people say that. Don't mean to insult you personally, but what's the conclusion we're supposed to take from these statements? That we should stop predicting altogether? That New York's gonna win the title? Let's just throw our hands up in the air, go home, and only discuss basketball after the NBA finals.

    Of course things don't always turn out the way you, I, or any experts predict. They're just predictions. But that won't stop me from making them. And the Indiana team I see right now is, IMHO, not a very good one, and many people's judgements are clouded by Al's likeability and the hope that Granger will evolve into a superb player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus
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    Milwaukee ahead of Indiana?
    Yep, Milwaukee ahead of Indiana. I like how they've put their team together. Bogut will only get better and Villanueva+Simmons are a good complement for him, and I think Redd is a fantastic player. That's an example of a team that's balanced and well-conctructed, whereas I think our team with Al is one-sided and has glaring wholes in it, even though our "talent level" is pretty good.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987
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    Regular season head to head matchups mean very little. So the Pacers beat them in November 2 times with Artest. Referring to November to make an argument to the Pacers abilities, that sounds familiar.. The Pacers always seem to beat the best teams in November, but by the time the season is over, the Pacers are nowhere to be found.

    Miami wasn't very good at the beginning. They didn't respond to Van Gundy like they did Riley. Lot's of teams had success against Miami this year, they lost 30 times.

    Detroit beat Miami 3 out of the 4 times they played them. Miami only won a game agaisnt them because Wade had a perfect 4th quarter. What happened in the playoffs? Miami eliminates Detroit in 6 games.

    You just can't look at the regular season, especially November games, to judge how a team compares against another.
    Miami still struggled against us late in the season, at home, even when we were in the crapper. Remember, they damn near completely unraveled right then and there.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    I think we can finish anywhere from 1st to 6th. Its a crapshoot as of now. With all the turnover on the roster if you are just looking at us on paper I say we are top 4, but its too early to say how well it will work.

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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
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    Miami still struggled against us late in the season, at home, even when we were in the crapper. Remember, they damn near completely unraveled right then and there.


    And Miami lost to Detroit by double digits in March, and double digits in April.

    Regular season just does not matter when the postseason starts. Miami would have taken us out in 5.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?



    that is all.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  12. #37
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    As of now? Something like this in my opinion:

    1) Miami
    2) Chicago
    3) Cleveland
    4) Detroit
    5) Washington
    6) Indiana
    7) New Jersey
    8) Orlando

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  13. #38
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Talent-wise, we should be top four. I doubt we'll make it even that high though, since we don't have any real starting quality point guard. I know some people will cry and say AJ, but he's getting old, and doesn't fit into our supposed new up tempo offense. We need a young prospect or solid vet who can push the pace.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Indy - 5th (much depends on RC)
    Cleveland will do about the same as last year
    Chicago could very well finish 1st
    NJ will win their weak division again
    Once again, Central is strongest div
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    bulldog, you can keep on believing what you believe. I'm only saying "We'll see" because my prediction is more based on faith or "gut" than yours, so I can't sit here and justify it on paper much better than I already have. I see some things that you guys don't agree with, and the numbers and current events are in your favor. I can't "win" this, so I'm just leaving it as "we'll see".

  16. #41
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    Unhappy Re: Where do we rank now?

    Miami (Champs)
    Detroit (Could be lower, but are still very talented)
    Indiana (Based on information I know)
    Chicago (Chemistry may be a concern)
    Cleveland (Lebron)
    Jersey (On a downward slope, could be lower, but weak division)
    Washington (Unimpressive offseason so far, could miss playoffs)
    Milwaukee (Team on the rise, but in need of a pg)

    Orlando (Dwight Howard has help this year, borderline playoff team)
    Boston (Paul Pierce can only do so much)
    Toronto (Need more frontcourt help)
    Philly (could be the worst team in the league next year)
    New York (They will be better, but not good by any means)
    Atlanta (Basketball hell gets a little hotter)
    Charlotte (Morrison is nice, but its still another 3 years before they make any noise)

    The East is improving, and WILL be better than the West next year. Print it.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    No chemistry, overrated talent, constant injuries, disgruntled players...
    Yeah, that's the kind of team that'll compete for a title. Certainly doesn't sounds like the kind of team that would miss the playoffs completely.

    In other words, what Kstat said.

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  18. #43
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Welp... the core isn't changing (so far).... altho it needs to...
    And we're having a busy offseason that is totally out of the norm for us yet this is the type of offseason other teams have normally...

    Under no scenario can I see us going into the season at #1 (under current and projected lineup happenings).

    Miami won the title so they are only going to be tougher.

    I think it's a pretty optimistic view to say we'd be the 4th best team in the first half of the season (in East). That's about the best we could hope for.

    If the team can sort out the chemistry issues then 6th sounds more like it to me.

    That's first half of the season... Too many variables (for all teams) to really predict deeper into the season at this point. I'd say if we're 4th at midseason then we're probably maxed out... if we're 6th then we can pick up some spots. If we're below that then the chemistry experiment has failed and I'd expect a tailspin and an actual trade deadline trade (something we typically only see from Walsh if the playoffs are in jeopardy).

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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    i am beginning to realize...we are in one HELL of a division. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee...gonna be a tough year

  20. #45

    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by indytoad
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    No chemistry, overrated talent, constant injuries, disgruntled players...
    Yeah, that's the kind of team that'll compete for a title.
    ^^^^ what he said.


    The Pacers have become a younger team, a quicker team, and a cheaper team. But the problems last year were:

    1. injuries
    2. team chemistry


    Not enough has been done to deal with either of those problems. If the current line-up suits up in November under Carlisle's leadership, the Pacers will be no better than last year.

    (That doesn't mean Carlisle is solely to blame.)
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  21. #46
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam
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    ^^^^ what he said.


    The Pacers have become a younger team, a quicker team, and a cheaper team. But the problems last year were:

    1. injuries
    2. team chemistry


    Not enough has been done to deal with either of those problems. If the current line-up suits up in November under Carlisle's leadership, the Pacers will be no better than last year.

    (That doesn't mean Carlisle is solely to blame.)



    I agree with these guys. I see a lot of optimism on here. I look at it from the worst possible standpoint. We are not back to contention, yet.

    Another thing to consider is, do you think Rick didn't have his best coaching because of the past 2 years and the things he has had to deal with? What did we expect him to do win the NBA Finals??
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  22. #47
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    All of the reasons people predict us to do poorly with this roster are the same reasons Miami was expected to crash and burn too. And don't cop out and just wave your Wade and Shaq banners at me; it's more than that.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    All of the reasons people predict us to do poorly with this roster are the same reasons Miami was expected to crash and burn too. And don't cop out and just wave your Wade and Shaq banners at me; it's more than that.
    Hicks, I don't think the analogy with Miami is correct. Our problem is different than Miami's.

    Miami assembled a new team out of tainted players. There was no accumulation of ill-will between the new players and Van Gundy or Riley. Antoine Walker had a bad reputation, but he started fresh with Miami.

    What we've got is a player who is suspected of faking injuries, a player who missed key practices and argued and disrespected his coach repeatedly, and a player who has stated publicly that he doesn't feel bad about having the NBA's highest rate of technical fouls per minutes. And these guys are coming back to the same locker room with the same coach as last year.

    The issue is not to apportion blame, but to acknowledge that the combination did not work. So far, we still have than same dysfunctional combination.

    I think it will change, and we'll all like the roster come November. But as the team stands now, we're still ugly.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
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  24. #49
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    bulldog, you can keep on believing what you believe. I'm only saying "We'll see" because my prediction is more based on faith or "gut" than yours, so I can't sit here and justify it on paper much better than I already have. I see some things that you guys don't agree with, and the numbers and current events are in your favor. I can't "win" this, so I'm just leaving it as "we'll see".
    Fair enough...but you can win. You'll just have to wait until April of next year.

    Obviously, I hope you're right. But if I had to bet my life savings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    All of the reasons people predict us to do poorly with this roster are the same reasons Miami was expected to crash and burn too. And don't cop out and just wave your Wade and Shaq banners at me; it's more than that.
    Disagree with that strongly. Their team was very diverse, with a dominant paint scorer (Shaq), a clear superstar (Wade), a perimeter defensive role player who could shoot (Posey), an inside/rebounding defensive role player (Haslem), etc. People thought they would suck because they brought in a few guys with bad chemistry/ballhog issues (Payton, Williams, Walker), and no one felt they would accept their roles. But they did, and so they won. Entirely different situation.

  25. #50
    Member Ron who?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we rank now?

    NO DIVISION CHAMPS BULL **** THIS IS PURELY WINS

    1. Miami (as much as I hate it)
    2. Detroit
    3. Chicago
    4. Indiana
    5. Cleveland
    6. NJN
    7. Washington
    8. Miluakee
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    I thinkthat putting the PIstons so far down just because they lost Ben Wallace is retarded

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