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Thread: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    From the Boston paper.

    "The crowd of 16,605 at Conseco Fieldhouse was about 2,000 short of a sellout. The Pacers don't expect a sellout for Game 2 Tuesday night, either. "I thought [the crowd] would be a lot better, and a lot more rowdy," said Chucky Atkins"

    Every time I hear Reb Porter or DJ Paul B talk about the loudest 6th man or N.B.A.'s rowdiest fans I keep wondering if somehow I've been transported to Arco Arena, because I know they are not talking about us.

    The attendance may have been announced at 16,605 but I can assure you that a lot of that was scalper tix. The seats to the right of mine are generally scalper seats all season long & all four of them were empty yesterday. The upper deck on the opponets side was an embarrasement.

    61 wins, Defensive player of the year, legitimate M.V.P. candidate, legitmate 6th man candidate, dunk champion & we can't even sell out our first game of the playoffs.

    It's sickening really.

    BTW, the D J Paul B thing has gotten really old really fast. (sorry just had to add that)

    I'm sure as the playoffs go on the crowd will get bigger. But really, what does that say. The fans will only support the team if we are winning it all?

    I've said it before & I'll say it again. I just don't think the fans of this area have taken to this team yet. Maybe some playoff wins is what it takes but I honestly thought that some Pacer fans were a little better than that.

    We've had several first round series not sell out before but, IMO, not as bad as this since about the 93 season.

    Now to the game.

    I thought Al Harrington was brilliant yesterday. He played both sides of the floor & whenever I look up & see him have as many rebounds as points I get happy. That block he put on Mark Blount, IMO, was the game breaker. Which is funny cause how often do you have a game breaker in the second quarter? I thought he played as good as anybody on the floor.

    Conversely I thought Jamaal Tinsely played horrid. This actually gives me hope because I don't think he will continue to play that bad during the series. But his defense was non-existant. He didn't make any T.O.'s but then again he didn't really run the half-court offense that well either IMO. He'll be back & better in game two.

    I'm glad I'm not the coach. Seriously how do you go to a player like Austin Croshere & tell him, thanks for your hard work & dedication but even though you've busted your @ss all season long I'm going to go with a player who hasn't suited up for 30 games & hasn't really proven anything? The only blemish of the day, IMO. Austin deserves better than this. I know a shorter rotation for the playoffs is usually standard & even if that is the case how do you do that to Croshere. Oh well, still a good win.

    BTW, can anybody see Mark Blount in a Pacers uniform? Man what a backup center he would be.

    Fred Jones had a great run during the second on offense. Fred Jones had a better run in the fourth on defense. There was a time Fred switched with Ron on Paul Pierce & the defense didn't drop a lick. That is saying something cause Ron was putting it to Paul all day long. The lineup of Fred & Ron together on the floor has got to cause headaches for opponets on the perimeter.

    Again great game, poor attendance & great weather. Made for a good Saturday.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #2
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    I am trying not to think about the attendence figures because I'll only get disgusted, and I am not going to comment on Tinsley either.

    I will say the crowd in the first half seemed loud to me, second half was not competitive so it was really quiet.

    Peck if you noticed, the pacers went small during the game I think that was because in the fiurst quarter the Celtics quickness and off the dribble game was killing us, so I was not surprised that Cro did not play and was even less surprised that Pollard did not play. Cro will get a few minutes this series, but the matchups just aren't there for him. And AL was so good yesterday he wanted him on the floor.


    Freddie. People aren't giving Freddie enough credit for playing so well in his first playoff game, he was poised, under control, and he played like a veteran. Fredie will get a lt of minutes this sries because of the Ricky Davis matchup, Freddie deends him better than anyone

  3. #3

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    I've said it before & I'll say it again. I just don't think the fans of this area have taken to this team yet. Maybe some playoff wins is what it takes but I honestly thought that some Pacer fans were a little better than that.
    I think Indy fans have become spoiled. I've said it before, they remind me of Braves' fans. They've just become so accustomed to winning that they've become inured to it and anything less than winning it all or at least making it to the finals or ECFs just isn't going to excite them. I'm guilty of it myself. I went and saw a movie yesterday instead of watching the game. 2nd round will interest me a little more, but the playoffs are such a drawn out process now, to try and maintain that level of interest for that long is emotionally draining. Until the Pacers get to the ECFs, I can't really get excited about the playoffs.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Here's another thing: I remember when I was a kid, only the best teams made it to the playoffs. I'm sorry, but a team with a 36-46 regular-season record just doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs, in my opinion. So the best teams have to wade through a lot of crap teams so fans can see the match-ups we all really want to see. That the league does this is a real disservice to the fans. I understand it from a business standpoint, but it mitigates the quality of sports in general.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    You've hit on some good points, Peck.

    As far as Croshere not playing, I can somewhat picture Carlisle's thinking. This is a game that the Pacer's should easily win. Now is the time to give Bender minutes if he is to get minutes at all. I would rather test him out now than in a series further down the road.

    With that thought, Carlisle, if he said anything to Cro at all, may have said "Austin, we know what you can do, but we need to find out what JB's capable of right now.". Makes sense to me, anyhow.

  6. #6
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Sorry but it just doesn't bother me the game wasn't a sellout. A match-up against a team that won 36 games isn't going to be a draw.

    Regarding tinsley, I'm not trying to put a hit on him but I don't know how he came up with a 0 turnover stat. I clearly saw an entry pass to the left side of the basket get picked off by Boston. Oh well, 7-0 or 7-1 doesn't make a lot of difference in a game like this.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Win a series, and the problem will go away.
    I think this is the truth. I think there are a lot of "on the fence" fans, that like the team, but don't love the team. I think once they see we're not chronic 1st round exits waiting to happen, they'll start to give a damn.

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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    And for what it's worth, watching the game on TV, the crowd sounded louder in that first half than I'd heard it in a long time this season. You could tell there were less corporates there.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Along with a combination of the other factors being discussed, I would have to think money would have to be a huge factor in the attendance issue.

    Last year I was in Indy for the first game of the playoffs and spent $47 for a decent ticket in Section 10. This seat was about the worst seat that I would be willing to pay for. I'm not saying it was a bad seat, but I would watch at home before sitting in the upper level. At any rate, figure in parking and a few bucks for concessions and it was $60 for one game. Multiply that by 3, the most likely number of home games in this series and you have $180. Since we are the #1 seed, I'm figuring we'll win and make it to the second round, where I'm figuring another 3 homes games and a victory. At the same ticket prices (I'm not sure if they go up as the playoffs go on or not), add in another $180 for a total of $360 before they potentially get to the conference finals.

    Anything beyond the conference finals is a question mark, but I think the average fan would have to have a minimum of $500 set aside to have any hope of attending EVERY home playoff game this year, but hopefully they'll need much more than that.

    At any rate, alot of fans might only have $200 sitting around that they can spend on tickets, or they might have to buy for multiple people when they go. At very least, that fan is going to want to get to the best game possible for that money.

    I'm not sure if most Pacer fans are like me or not, but I could probably not afford to go to every playoff game, even if I lived in Indy. I have been to two in my life (2000 Game 5 against Bucks and 2003 Game 1 against Celtics) and they are great. If I lived in Indy, I would probably try to get to half of the games in a year like this, where at least 10 games are likely to take place. In choosing which games to sit out on, I'd have to say Games 1, 2, and 5 of this series would be on that list.

    If we were in a larger city, this probably would not even be an issue because you would easily have an additional 2,000 fans that have the cash to go to every home game. In Indianapolis, this is likely to be an issue for both the Colts and Pacers for awhile. However, I think both teams (assuming the Colts stay) will benefit down the road as each year you have success, you're bringing up a whole new generation of fans that will become diehards and are likely to purchase tickets when they get older.
    Can we get a new color commentator please?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    When I saw that number, it pissed me off. It doesn't matter who we play. It is the playoffs. You need to go support your team. And don't tell me in a city that has about a million people that 18,345 people cannot come to the game. that is crap. If you can't afford it, I can understand. But if you support your team, you should go. It's sickening.

    And as for Fred, I complimented him quite a lot. He is an x-factor in the series, and if he hits his shots and plays defense like he has, it will be a big help against teams we play, especially Detroit.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  11. #11
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Some of the excuses you guys are giving are pathetic.

    I don't care who the Pacers are playing or what the opponents record is, there is no valid excuse for not selling out a playoff game.

    Makes the city of Indy and surrounding area look very sad.

    And if I were a Pacers player I would be pissed, never would say so in public.

    We are only talking about 18,000 people here.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....


    And if I were a Pacers player I would be pissed, never would say so in public.
    I would be VERY pissed. You would figure for an opening game of the playoffs that the players would be looking forward to crowd that was rocking the building, and as full as possible.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  13. #13
    sweabs
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    I would also be real pissed if I were a player - if I lived in Indiana I am not joking - I would make sure to get seats to every single damn game.

    If we want people to come to Indiana, and want to stay in Indiana the crowd has to show the players they care.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    It's fine that you're ticked off, or the players are ticked off. I just don't see how you can criticize how others spend their money. I'm a Pacers fan, but I'm not going budget several thousands of dollars to them every year right now. It's entertainment, and if I have to choose between car payments, house payments, school loans, 401k and IRA contributions against EVERY Pacer's playoff game, the game will almost always lose out. If I were to double my salary, I would probably have enough that I would go to all.

    Like I said, I don't know how many Pacer fans are in my situation, but I do know it costs alot of money to go all of these games. It seems very arrogant to me for someone else to say that people should be going. Even if someone is just going to the movies instead of Pacers games, it's their money and their choice.
    Can we get a new color commentator please?

  15. #15
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    I think these things have hurt:

    Management's decision to 'rebuild on the fly' in 1999

    The team's immediate decline from championship contender to barely making the playoffs for 2 straight years... and a 3rd year entering in a tailspin

    The team's lack of chemistry under Isiah Thomas

    Three straight first round losses

    Idle summers as far as new players coming TO Indiana to stoke more than just the homers during the off season.

    The loss of 'local Indiana' press coverage outside of Indy Star that I think relates to the above.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am seeing our local paper rediscovering the Pacers in the last few weeks. Games are back on the front page with pics. I am assuming other communities have similar experiences? (Team coverage waning over the past 4 years only to be slowly rediscovered)

    I was just thinking about this yesterday (in light of the Artest 'thing' and ESPN making a big deal out of it)... The Pacers and local Indy media probably haven't made quite a big deal out of this season and Reggie's window of opportunity for a ring as they could have (until recently). It's a great story and it would've probably been picked up nationally and given the natls another angle rather than just focusing on Artest and waiting for him to go 'Bob Knight'. I think they were gunshy due to the past 3 years and last season's big collapse.

    Honestly, for two years this team went backwards and then was spinning their wheels. And this immediately following a championship appearance and a run of years where they were contenders. Arguably, you could throw in last year as well. So, maybe a lack of fan support from casual fans shouldn't be all that surprising at this point.

    I am thinking back to the Star forum and how many people thought the Pacers wouldn't miss a beat losing Dale Davis and Jax and with Thomas. Obviously, it was homers and casual fans but they are the first to bail off the bandwagon and I am just not sure what the team has done to get them back just yet (until starting this year). Winning a playoff series would help. It's not like you can say the Pacers fell back and then started building over the past 3 years. They didn't. Any positive steps were quickly nullified by negative ones. So this is IMHO the first we've seen (in 3 yrs) of the team actually building towards a championship and moving forward.

    Beating the Celtics would help. Dominating them would help even more.

    -Bball
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  16. #16
    Southside_Pacer
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    When/If the Pacers get out of the first round of the playoffs, the people will come.

    Games do cost a lot of money. People with financial issues would rather spend money and go to a game later in the playoffs than this early.

    Attendance might be better on Tuesday since the Pacers did win.

  17. #17
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    I'm sure what I am about to say won't be very popular. Especially with those I like and respect until they get into pontificating. It gets old - very, very old.

    I haven't been to a game in a long, long time. My job requires me to work almost every time a game is being played. I use to go to many of the game. I would love to go and have good seats. However, situations have dictated otherwise over the past few years. Yes, there are those who will say - but there are cheap seats. That's exactly what they are cheap seats. It would certainly lessen my enjoyment of the game.

    Is anyone else on here a bigger fan than me? Emphatically NO! Is anyone on here a bigger fan than possibly a family of 6 who's budget weighs food against even the cheap seats but live and die with the Pacers? Emphatically NO! Or how about the family I know who had to travel to Illinois so their daughter could get a shot at a college volleyball scholarship and were disappointed they couldn't even see the game. Are those in attendance bigger fans than them? Emphatically NO!

    Hell, half of the fans who attended the games all year long in the corporate boxes or suites couldn't have given a rats *** who won the game.

    Fan support comes in many ways. I'm certain there are HUGE fans who have never been to a game in person in their lives but are thrilled when there is a free downtown pep rally and can see the players in person. They gave their time to go to the pep rally to SUPPORT the team.

    Don't equate money for a friggin game ticket to fan support. I've heard it all year and it's old, and more annoying, than the 10,000 Brad Miller threads.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Any problem with crowd noise has a very simple explanation: I wasn't there.

    As far as Croshere not playing, I think at this point Carlisle has completely earned any benefit of the doubt as far as his coaching decisions. I'm sure Austin was itching to play and was disappointed not to, but the same could be said for Anderson and Pollard, who by all accounts have been just as dedicated and as much of a team player as Croshere.

    Everyone remember all of the groaning and crying when Freddie was drafted? Anyone complaining now? UB makes a great point that this was his first playoff game and he played like a playoff veteran, not a common occurence, although I think it is not a huge suprise due to his four year college career and postseason tournament experience there.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Sorry, I just don't buy the excuses people give. If you cannot afford it, I can understand. But out of the million people here, there have to be 18000 who can. But there are people not willing to do so. Maybe it's because we've sucked the last few years. But we don't this year.

    And a movie?? You can see the movie any other time. There is only ONE pacers game. Bad excuse.

    Games do cost a lot of money, and I'm not saying people should go to every game. But if people just try and go to a single game, it would be fine. Instead they make excuses not to come. And that pisses me off.

    Edit: There are about 800,000 people in Indy alone, probably more. With 18, 345 seats, that is approximately 2.29 % of the INDY population that is needed. Don't tell me there aren't this many people that can't go to a game. And this is INDY alone. There are other areas nearby where people can come from to go to the game.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  20. #20
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    18,000 at the Staples Center equals what .0000000000001 of the population of LA and 16,000 represents .00000001 of the people of Indianapolis. So who are the biggest fans?
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  21. #21

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    One thing I take away from talking to casual fans I know in Indiana is that this team hasn't really successfully forged an identity like the Brown and Bird teams (esp. the Bird teams) did. Three years of lesser success and an almost complete turnover in the players who were in the rotation probably contributed to this. This years team seems to be making an imprint on people's minds with JO playing at "just under" MVP level and Ron cutting out the antics enough to be recognized for what he brings on the floor, not off it. Playoff success will help the casual fan get behind this team as well.

  22. #22

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Sorry, I just don't buy the excuses people give. If you cannot afford it, I can understand. But out of the million people here, there have to be 18000 who can. But there are people not willing to do so. Maybe it's because we've sucked the last few years. But we don't this year.

    And a movie?? You can see the movie any other time. There is only ONE pacers game. Bad excuse.

    Games do cost a lot of money, and I'm not saying people should go to every game. But if people just try and go to a single game, it would be fine. Instead they make excuses not to come. And that pisses me off.

    Edit: There are about 800,000 people in Indy alone, probably more. With 18, 345 seats, that is approximately 2.29 % of the INDY population that is needed. Don't tell me there aren't this many people that can't go to a game. And this is INDY alone. There are other areas nearby where people can come from to go to the game.
    It's still a matter of preference. There might be 50,000 that can afford to go to every game, but maybe half of those people don't even like sports. Maybe another 5,000 don't like NBA basketball. 2,000 people had things they'd rather do on a beautiful day outside and another 2,000 would rather watch at home, a bar, or at a party with friends.

    I'm not saying those numbers are accurate, I'm just saying that however you cut it, there were only 16,500 people willing to pay or go to the game yesterday. Whatever the reasons were for the other people not going, it's their reasons and I don't see how we can sit here and tell them that their reasoning is wrong. They don't owe the Pacers anything.

    Now if you want to tell me that this all reflects poorly on Indianapolis as a professional sports city, I'd say that's true. I just don't want to go so far as to say people SHOULD be going to the game.
    Can we get a new color commentator please?

  23. #23

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    The 76ers had 500 tickets they allocated last year to be sold to the public for all playoff games so for game 3 against Detroit in round two myself and 2 friends slept outside the Wachovia center in a tent so we were at the front of the line that next morning when they went on sale and yes we got our 3 tickets. We weren't alone there were probably about 800 people camped out that night.

    As far as the movie; if you offered me $1,000 to go to a movie instead of watching a 76ers playoff game I would tell you to go to he**. I know alot of my friends would tell you the same thing. Maybe were just degenerates in the northeast. But to me you never know whats going to happen that Pacers game yesterday could have been a triple overtime thriller, or JO could have scored 55 pts. You never know you might have missed the best playoff game in Pacers history.

    All that being said I fully understand the economic issue its sad but MANY people have been priced out of professional sports. I also fully understand if you have to work. But to willingly go watch a movie instead of the Pacers; wow that sounds like something a Lakers fan or Atlanta sports fan would do.

    I wouldn't worry about the atmosphere in the building I know it seemed pretty loud on TV yesterday and Indy has always been a tough place for the 76ers in the playoffs. You guys have plenty of loud passionate fans there, I don't know who that guy is in the construction hat that sits in the lower level but I see him there every year and he seems pretty intense.

  24. #24
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    Gee Dipper . . . I never thought of you as anything else but a degenerate
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  25. #25

    Default Re: The problem is that Chucky Atkins is right.....

    As far as the movie; if you offered me $1,000 to go to a movie instead of watching a 76ers playoff game I would tell you to go to he**. I know alot of my friends would tell you the same thing. Maybe were just degenerates in the northeast. But to me you never know whats going to happen that Pacers game yesterday could have been a triple overtime thriller, or JO could have scored 55 pts. You never know you might have missed the best playoff game in Pacers history.

    All that being said I fully understand the economic issue its sad but some families have been priced out of professional sports. I also fully understand if you have to work. But to willingly go watch a movie instead of the Pacers; wow that sounds like something a Lakers fan or Atlanta sports fan would do.

    I wouldn't expect many people here would skip a game to go see a movie. We're in a Pacer basketball forum. When you consider the entire population of any city, and those that can afford to go to a game, most likely many of them are not even sports fans. Among the general public, I think alot of people couldn't care less about sports and would prefer a movie or other form of entertainment. I'm sure nobody who would spend time on this forum would be in that group though.
    Can we get a new color commentator please?

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