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Thread: What big moves are fans expecting?

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    Default What big moves are fans expecting?

    Something that is posted over and over again is that moves are on the way, moves are coming. Everyone's for it. It sounds great. Then you take a look at our mediocre roster and the question that comes up is: What GM in their right mind would take some of these guys? It's impossible to find any players that we want out of here that have any substantial trade value. GM's aren't in the business of taking the Pacers collective crap off of their hands for players with actual value. I think some of you are going to be severely disappointed when the Pacers start next season with a roster largely similar.

    Let's look at these players one by one.

    Austin Croshere: Has trade value only because of his expiring contract, would be more likely to be shipped midseason. One of the few good attitudes on the team.

    Jeff Foster: A hard player, but I don't think teams will be lining up to get him.

    Eddie Gill: Free agent, nothing to be said there anyway.

    Danny Granger: A good kid. Management seems to like him. Fans like him. Would be extremely unlikely for him to be traded.

    David Harrison: A possible prospect. Work ethic a concern. The Pacers probably need to hang on to him as he is one of the only true centers here.

    Stephen Jackson: Who wants this guy? Why would any GM trade for him? No GM would want him for the same reasons everyone wants him gone.

    Sarunas Jasikevicius: Not the first year most of us had hoped for. Good maybe spark the interest of some teams, but he's not going to net you anyone worth much.

    Anthony Johnson: Probably one of the few good attitudes here. It's hard to want to kick a guy out the door after he played his *** off for you in the playoffs. He could be used as an add on in a deal, but he won't be enough to get you anyone worth much.

    Fred Jones: Free agent.

    Jermaine O'Neal: The trade rumors constantly come up, but I think we all know he isn't going anywhere unless we got someone huge in return.

    Scot Pollard: Free agent.

    Peja Stojakovic: Gone.

    Jamaal Tinsley. Injured constantly. Attitude a concern. No one would trade a starting caliber pg for this guy.

    James White, Shawne Williams: Just drafted.

    That's our roster right there. I want to know how we are going to make substantial upgrades with that extremely mediocre roster. We'll probably use the full MLE, that will help. But what trades can Bird/Walsh pull with that? If they can make substantial roster changes with that collective garbage, they will have pulled off one of the most brilliant offseasons for a franchise in NBA history.

    I get so tired of seeing "Jax/Tins/Foster" for X, X, and X. Why would anyone want that? Team's want to win. Teams aren't in the market to take the Pacers collective garbage off of their hands. If I was a fan of a team that had just traded someone that was decent for Stephen Jackson and Jamaal Tinsley, I'd probably jump off of a cliff.

    There are only 2 players on the Pacers roster who would spark interest of other GM's. Jermaine O'Neal and Danny Granger, and those are the 2 players most of us want to see back (I'd be open to O'Neal leaving only if we were getting a huge player in return). I would view the rest of the roster as nothing but mediocrity. Croshere would intrigue me only because of his expiring contract. Why would anyone want to give up something good for the rest of those guys? They're the epitome of mediocre NBA players.

    Sorry, I just think the Pacers are going to enter next season with a roster that is largely similar to this. We will probably use the MLE and the vet's exception. But as far as trades, I don't see many happening. I think Bird/Walsh are definitely trying, but GM's are GM's for a reason, they know a little about the game. No GM wants a cancer like Stephen Jackson. There may be someone out there who'd want to give Tinsley a try, but honestly, who'd give up a starting caliber point guard, which is what the Pacers need, for him?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    I'll say it again Foster, AJ, Cro, Harrison, Saras all have trade value, pair one or even two of them with either Jax or Tinsley and the Pacers can get a good guard. Not an allstar, maybe not even someone who starts for their team right now. That is why TPTB have to have a little foresight and acquire a player who is good but for whatever reason is not getting much of a chance for their current team.

    This sort of thing happens all the time every year.

    Not sure why it is so hard to understand.

    I also guarentee something else. There are GM's out there who will take a chance on both JT and Jax. Look at how really troubled players always get another chance. If Tinsley is traded to a new team and can get healthy he can be a heck of a player. And a lot of pacers fans think if he plays for another coach besides Rick he'll excel and some of his "injuries" will disappear

    If TPTB are creative I really beleive the pacers will surprise some of you at who they can get

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I'll say it again Foster, AJ, Cro, Harrison, Saras all have trade value, pair one or even two of them with either Jax or Tinsley and the Pacers can get a good guard. Not an allstar, maybe not even someone who starts for their team right now. That is why TPTB have to have a little foresight and acquire a player who is good but for whatever reason is not getting much of a chance for their current team.

    This sort of thing happens all the time every year.

    Not sure why it is so hard to understand.

    I also guarentee something else. There are GM's out there who will take a chance on both JT and Jax. Look at how really troubled players always get another chance. If Tinsley is traded to a new team and can get healthy he can be a heck of a player. And a lot of pacers fans think if he plays for another coach besides Rick he'll excel and some of his "injuries" will disappear

    If TPTB are creative I really beleive the pacers will surprise some of you at who they can get

    I hope.

    I 100% agree with you in that teams will take a chance on Tinsley. I just don't think there are many teams out there who would give you a starting caliber pg in return for him, which is what the Pacers need.

    If I'm a GM, there is no way I would give up anything decent for SJAX.

    Croshere has trade value, no doubt, because of his expiring large contract.

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    There are teams out there who will be willing to take a chance of Tins, and some will be willing to take a chance on Jax. It just won't be the same teams, for sure.

    Heck, just look at our forum here. There are still some that will defend either player to their death. And they've usually got some solid reasoning, each player defintely has some positive aspects.

    Get creative with trades featuring different combinations of Jeff, Tins, Jack, Saras, AJ, and maybe even Cro, and I think we will get some solid pieces back.

    The way I see it, we have 3 major needs: PG, SG, and one more big-bodied center. If you can get two of those through trades, and one with the MLE, we're in pretty good shape. As a last resort, we can keep AJ to fill our PG need.

    Our bench would then be kinda weak, but we'd fill it with the rooks, whoever is left after the trading, and some vet minimum signings. Oh, and hopefully Freddie!
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    I remember a few years back the Magic traded a player & a first round draft pick to Denver for a second round pick. Wish I could remember the player, I'm sure Kstat knows him, he was on the Pistons when he blew out his knee.

    Anyway, maybe we could try that with Jackson.

    Tinsley might have a better year once we drop Carlise as our coach.

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    This sort of thing happens all the time every year.
    Example please.
    And I'm not looking for a junk-for-junk trade. We need a good player, a legit second scoring option with an outside shot, or we're going to suck for a few years. You don't get that kind of player for Jax/Tins. Not end of the world, we'll get better as Granger develops and we add some picks/FA's in the future, but that's the short-term reality.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Tinsley's contract is too large, his attitude too obvious, his 'illnesses' and lack of games played too well documented to think anyone will give us anything but garbage for him. That said, I'd take it and be glad to be moving on.

    Any deal for Tinsley will need to be sweetened on our end and even then, we're probably getting a huge question mark of one kind or the other in return.

    One of the positives to resigning Peja, besides his impact on scoring and being a team player, would've been the ability to trade him 2-3 years down the road when Granger (and maybe Williams) is more ready and we can address other needs. Now that possibility is gone and salary restrictions will limit us in doing anything at all. Tho for a team that is known for doing nothing I guess that isn't a problem...

    Hopefully this summer will be different...

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog
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    Example please.
    And I'm not looking for a junk-for-junk trade. We need a good player, a legit second scoring option with an outside shot, or we're going to suck for a few years. You don't get that kind of player for Jax/Tins. Not end of the world, we'll get better as Granger develops and we add some picks/FA's in the future, but that's the short-term reality.


    You aren't thinking broadly enough.

    No we aren't going to get players like Redd, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Josh Howard, Jason Terry.

    Examples: Steve Nash at the beginning of his career, he played very little in his first two years with the Suns, he wasn't that highly thought of, and if you wanted to trade for him during the first 2 or 3 years of his career, you could have gotten him very cheaply.

    But a better example is Boris Diaw. 12 months ago Boris Diaw was a bad player on a horrible team, no one wanted him. The Hawks said he couldn't play and did not compete.

    It is all about picking out a player who is either stuck behind an allstar and not getting time, or maybe just isn't in the right system. Bird and DW have to be creative and take a chance on a young guy.

    I'll grant you this is a gamble. But Bird and DW need to comb the rosters and target a few players who are goiong to be excllent players if only they had the chance.

    Think Boris Diaw. Sure it is obvious now that he's good. But 12 months ago, the Hawks didn't want him.

    I personally think 12 months from now Daniels will be a player that everyone will be saying wow, how did the Mavs ever give him up. (Granted he's not that much of a diamond in the rough, I'm sure a lot of GM's like him a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    One of the positives to resigning Peja, besides his impact on scoring and being a team player, would've been the ability to trade him 2-3 years down the road when Granger (and maybe Williams) is more ready and we can address other needs. Now that possibility is gone and salary restrictions will limit us in doing anything at all. Tho for a team that is known for doing nothing I guess that isn't a problem...

    -Bball

    Maybe, or just maybe 2 or 3 years from now, no one wants him at his salary of $13 million and you are complaining about how his salary is way too much, and how we can't get rid of him, and how in the world could we have paid a guy who doesn't start

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    We will find a taker for Tinsley and Jackson. Both are good players. We will find a taker for each of them.

    We won't get anything great for either but that's because neither is great.

    That still doesn't mean we can't get something useful.

    UB you mention that we need to target a player like Boris Diaw was last year, up and coming type of guy, who would that be?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie
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    We will find a taker for Tinsley and Jackson. Both are good players. We will find a taker for each of them.

    We won't get anything great for either but that's because neither is great.

    That still doesn't mean we can't get something useful.

    UB you mention that we need to target a player like Boris Diaw was last year, up and coming type of guy, who would that be?

    Well I've beaten Marquis Daniels name into the ground. But I think he's sorta that type of player. I'd have to go down each team's roster, but not sure I can do that tonight. Rommie I'm not going to be able to go down every roster tonight, but I will tomorrow.

    Another great example of what I'm talking about is Chauncey Billups. He bounced from team to team, and now look at him he's one of the best points guards in the NBA. He was signed outright from the T-Wolves. Sure it seems obvious now, but his stock had fallen pretty far.

    FYI: here is a thread from October of 2004 asking for those who think Tinsley's contract was too large to speak up, no one did

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Maybe, or just maybe 2 or 3 years from now, no one wants him at his salary of $13 million and you are complaining about how his salary is way too much, and how we can't get rid of him, and how in the world could we have paid a guy who doesn't start

    I don't think there's any question that Peja would've been starting this season, and based on last season, I'd envision him doing well. Maybe Granger eventually eclipses him, maybe he doesn't... but I would've been surprised to see Peja fall off so steeply that we couldn't have traded him in the front side of his contract if it appeared we had something better already on our roster whose time had come.

    Of course that would take a proactive approach and not a 'wait and see' attitude. IOW... If at 31 years of age Peja appears to be slipping a tad then you start thinking about limiting his minutes and trading him sooner rather than later... rather than waiting another season to see if his slipping was a fluke or a sign. Let alone not limiting his minutes as he gets older.

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I don't think there's any question that Peja would've been starting this season, and based on last season, I'd envision him doing well. Maybe Granger eventually eclipses him, maybe he doesn't... but I would've been surprised to see Peja fall off so steeply that we couldn't have traded him in the front side of his contract if it appeared we had something better already on our roster whose time had come.

    Of course that would take a proactive approach and not a 'wait and see' attitude. IOW... If at 31 years of age Peja appears to be slipping a tad then you start thinking about limiting his minutes and trading him sooner rather than later... rather than waiting another season to see if his slipping was a fluke or a sign. Let alone not limiting his minutes as he gets older.

    -Bball

    I think Peja is already slipping, he's played a ton of basketball over the years, all the international competition. I think in 2 or 3 years he would not have been starting for the Pacers. Go read what the Kings fans say about him.
    Here is a current thread.

    http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13665

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    FYI: here is a thread from October of 2004 asking for those who think Tinsley's contract was too large to speak up, no one did
    TPTB see these players all the time. They spin the stories and minimize the negatives we hear. Eventually, they can't squash the rumors, let along the courtside observations, leaks, etc and it becomes clear that a player has 'issues'.

    That the fans initially didn't have a problem with what proves to be a bad contract shouldn't excuse management from offering it in the first place.

    -Bball

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I think Peja is already slipping, he's played a ton of basketball over the years, all the international competition. I think in 2 or 3 years he would not have been starting for the Pacers. Go read what the Kings fans say about him.
    Here is a current thread.

    http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13665
    I'm disappointed we're losing Artest for nothing. I guess we should've just voided his contract to begin with and asked Stern if he'd consider not throwing the Pacers under the bus after 11/19 if we'd immediately cut all ties with Artest.

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    I'll toss out a couple names until Uncle Buck returns.

    Aleksandar Pavlovic or Luke Jackson of the Cavs

    John Salmons or Willie Green of the Sixers

    Matt Carroll from the Bobcats

    Travis Diener of the Magic

    JR Smith, Arvydas Macijauskas or Rasual Butler from New Orleans

    Beno Udrih of the Spurs

    Dan Dickau or Steve Blake in Portland

    Monta Ellis or Will Bynum in Golden State

    Jannero Pargo in Chicago

    Richie Frahm of the Rockets

    Jiri Welsch in Milwaukee

    Eddie House of the Suns

    Jay Williams is still floating around out there too. That would be a hell of a pickup!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I think Peja is already slipping, he's played a ton of basketball over the years, all the international competition. I think in 2 or 3 years he would not have been starting for the Pacers. Go read what the Kings fans say about him.
    Here is a current thread.

    http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13665
    Slipping?

    UB come on now........ 46.1 from the field, 40.4 of his 3's, 90.3 from the line.

    O'Neal would have made him better & vise versa.

    Granger would have extended his career & Granger would most likely have been more dominate with both JO & Peja on the floor with him.

    The Pacers lost bigtime on this one.

  15. #15

    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    I'd go after Sergei Monia, Josh Childress, Jarvis Hayes, Mickael Pietrus, Sasha Vujacic, Viktor Khryapa also should be considered IMO. Although guys like Pietrus and Childress might not be "suprises".

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter
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    Slipping?

    UB come on now........ 46.1 from the field, 40.4 of his 3's, 90.3 from the line.
    You know, you hear those stats and they sound great. But to watch Peja with the Pacers seemed to me nothing like watching Peja in the glory days with Sacramento.

    A lot of that could be the talent around him. Sure. But the attitude, the fun, the energy, the ... something not completely tangible ... just seemed worlds away to me. I never felt like he was helping the team win more than it would without him. It seemed like the same incoherant blob we've watched for the last five years.

    And not to gush over Danny Granger, but the rookie gave me that feeling. Same with Anthony Johnson. And hell, on his good days, even Austin Croshere did.

    Of course, none of the BS I just wrote means much of anything when it comes to wins, loses or anything in between. But to the pure fan in me ... eh, who knows ...

  17. #17
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Let's face some harsh realities; some posters here have made their mind up on Jax and Tins, though I am sure there are more in the lose Jax camp then lose Tins, but do TPTB think the same as us?

    Tins' injuries were still described by Larry as freak accidents, they set him up with coaching while in NY for the summer (like lat year with O'Neill) and all that doesn't sound to me as a player being actively shopped around, also in that same line think of the talent-loss in comparison to what you can get, perhaps they plan on playing him till the trade deadline trying to up his value, I don't know but feel he might be here starting the season.
    SJax is less likely to be here, IF they can sign a SG of sorts, that's why I keep saying I would not be surprised to see Bonzi here, it would be a reat peace offering to JO as well and silly enough I have a feeling that JO would be able to keep him in line and playing for his home crowd may do some good, also it would fill seats, no matter what some of us here think about him.
    Please do not read this as if I would want him here, I am just stating something that seems obvious to me.
    Now big, (IF Bonzi signs for the MLE we need to S&T for that, IF we cna do S&T for Bonzi (Jax) then we have that available (the MLE) for a big siging, Elson would be a great fit, young, athletic, can score and rebound and is Dutch, it all helps
    However a S&T for Cro would bring in Maggy or perhaps Pryz at least someone with a higher pricetag if needed.

    We MIGHT trade for another PG, but if Tins is not moved at the trade deadline then AJ will be, because IF Tins is healthy for the first part of the year, chances are TPTB do not want to trade him at all and AJ will be unhappy, so will Sara for not getting any playing time at all, while perhaps AJ sees some time at the SG position.

    Where does it leave Fred? If no one breaks the bank for him, he will be retained as a backup with upside and possible trading piece later in the season or next year.

    Players most likely to be traded?

    Jax, Cro, Sara, AJ, Tins, Jones and in that order.

    There's a few things this franchise has never done and likely will never do as long as Donnie is here: gambling on large contracts of vet players, gamblling on Vet players per se, and talk about their plans, we can only speculate, but should be prepared for real surprises.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I'm disappointed we're losing Artest for nothing. I guess we should've just voided his contract to begin with and asked Stern if he'd consider not throwing the Pacers under the bus after 11/19 if we'd immediately cut all ties with Artest.

    -Bball

    In effect we traded Artest for cap space and I believe that was planned.
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    I'm afriad that Tinsley will be a great pg in a different system. And in that new system he will miraculously become injure free.
    I don't know what everybody else saw , but to me Tins just looked unhappy everytime - bringing the ball down - looking over to Rick for the play - then trying to run that play with 17 seconds on the shot clock.( Rick's plays take 20 seconds to run )

    I have no problem getting rid of Jax. Even if we have to give him away. But I think we should give Tins a shot at our uptempo off.. At least to see what happens. Maybe we could increase his trade value by the deadline.

  20. #20

    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    It is not reasonable to call Stephen Jackson "crap" or any of those other words. He's a player with size who can do a lot of things. Jackson scored 1,329 points last year, and pulled in 312 rebounds. That ranks him about
    20th among guards in both categories. So at least 10 teams have no one as good as him on their roster, judging by the stats. Prior to Indiana, he had a good record in San Antonio and Atlanta, including a role on a champion team.

    We don't want him on our roster because he conflicts with the coach, because he reminds us of 11/19/05 and because the fans have taken a set against him.

    But it is unreasonable to say he is not valuable in the trade market. We won't have to "give him away."

    Moving Jackson in a deal that profits the Pacers is possible. Let's do it.
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter
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    Monta Ellis in Golden State


    Jay Williams is still floating around out there too. That would be a hell of a pickup!

    Monta Ellis intrigues me. I haven't seen him play, but I've heard he might be a very good player.

    certainly if Jay Williams is healthy, I'd gladly sign him

  22. #22

    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Monta Ellis intrigues me. I haven't seen him play, but I've heard he might be a very good player.

    certainly if Jay Williams is healthy, I'd gladly sign him
    Monta Ellis is close to being an untouchable in Golden State. They'll trade Richardson before they trade Ellis.

    For openers I want:

    Al Harrington
    Antonio Davis

    To get Al we will lose a big.

    I'm fine with Jackson and White at shooting guard, if White looks like a gamer this summer.

    God help us, if we don't shuffle the point guard situation.

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    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam
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    It is not reasonable to call Stephen Jackson "crap" or any of those other words. He's a player with size who can do a lot of things. Jackson scored 1,329 points last year, and pulled in 312 rebounds. That ranks him about
    20th among guards in both categories. So at least 10 teams have no one as good as him on their roster, judging by the stats. Prior to Indiana, he had a good record in San Antonio and Atlanta, including a role on a champion team.

    We don't want him on our roster because he conflicts with the coach, because he reminds us of 11/19/05 and because the fans have taken a set against him.

    But it is unreasonable to say he is not valuable in the trade market. We won't have to "give him away."

    Moving Jackson in a deal that profits the Pacers is possible. Let's do it.
    Personally, I don't care for Jackson, but I honestly don't think that Top Brass is really looking to move him, just to move him (addition by subtraction). From what I seen in the past, it seemed like he was not hated among his teammates, he played when he was called to, and played "ok" during some more trying situations on this team. I'm sure if they get a deal they like...he will be gone, but I just don't think they are looking to get rid of him because of "fan backlash".

    I think a lot of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment if you think at the end of the day, they are going to dump their starting SG just because the fans don't like him. To me, it is not out of the realm of possibility that TPTB see Jackson's attitude as secondary to the talent he has, especially if Brass is pointing the fingers to the coaching staff for not being more active in adjusting the attitudes on the team. I feel that has happened with Larry Bird saying he was not happy with coaching and stating Rick lost the team.

    One thing that I am curious about is what kind of basketball player he would be a few years from now. Does he mature? Does his basketball IQ finally become acceptable? Something tells me, in the right environment with a coach that demands accountability for his production and respect for the game and his teammates Stephen Jackson would grow to be a player we could want to have here.

    I honestly feel that Rick Carlisle and the coaching staff failed this team and Stephen Jackson by not using the tool used by most coaches...The Bench! Again, I feel that top brass is looking at Jackson's situation a lot differently then we as fans are.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  24. #24
    Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    You aren't thinking broadly enough.

    No we aren't going to get players like Redd, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Josh Howard, Jason Terry.

    Examples: Steve Nash at the beginning of his career, he played very little in his first two years with the Suns, he wasn't that highly thought of, and if you wanted to trade for him during the first 2 or 3 years of his career, you could have gotten him very cheaply.

    But a better example is Boris Diaw. 12 months ago Boris Diaw was a bad player on a horrible team, no one wanted him. The Hawks said he couldn't play and did not compete.
    Boris Diaw was traded for Joe Johnson. Joe frickin' Johnson, an All-Star caliber player.

    I disagree entirely with your assesment. Even the Hawks knew Diaw was a prospect, they just wanted Johnson more. And no one will offer a young prospect for what we have to give. Nash, meanwhile, was already a top-notch point guard, just not an MVP-type player yet.

    Not only do we not fit the bill for one of these trades, but these crazy improvements aren't common in the first place, UB, they're very rare; in fact, I believe they give out an award for it.

    Will the Mavs do Daniels for Jax/Tins? No effin' way. And they have no need for Runi or Foster, their roster is already full of solid contributors.

    I think you're not being realistic and holding out for something that ain't gonna happen.

  25. #25
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: What big moves are fans expecting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter
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    I'll toss out a couple names until Uncle Buck returns.

    Luke Jackson of the Cavs

    John Salmons of the Sixers

    JR Smith, Arvydas Macijauskas from New Orleans

    Beno Udrih of the Spurs

    Jay Williams is still floating around out there too. That would be a hell of a pickup!
    warriors have pretty much tabbed monta ellis as their pg of the future, so it's doubtful we can get him

    i think these guys are possibilities. i wonder about luke jackson though - for a shooter not to be able to get time on the cavs, he must be a terrible player. or was it injuries that caused him to sit?

    jr smith still has star potential, but he has the kind of attitude we're probably better off avoiding.

    some team is going to take a chance on jay williams. injury concerns are very real for him though - you don't go through major surgery like he did without long term effects.

    i notice people are focusing on young players. but it's also possible for veterans to be stuck in the wrong situation. prime example, dale davis. he got to the point where he was waived, but came back to be the pacers' starting center. and now he's a 3rd stringer again...

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