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Thread: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

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    Default Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    This guy is about as well-trusted as it gets when it comes to internet rumor sites:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1369

    To put it simply:

    Phoenix trades: Shawn Marion (doesn't get along with Amare, max contract), #27, possibly Barbosa

    Seattle Trades: Rashard Lewis (Can opt out after next year), #10, possibly Fortson

    Basically Phoenix does it to stay competitive for now while extending guys like Diaw, knowing that Lewis is likely a one year player.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Interesting.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Hmmmmmm.

    Interesting....

    Wonder what kind of non-JO rumors the Pacers will be involved in.
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Without Marion Phoenix has nobody to rebound the ball.

    THey cant run if the other team gets 15 offensive boards every quarter...

    Nash
    Bell
    Lewis
    Diaw
    Stoudemire

    Sooo much offense in that lineup, so little defense, so nonexistent rebounding.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Doesn't get along with Amare? What happened?
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Without Marion Phoenix has nobody to rebound the ball.

    THey cant run if the other team gets 15 offensive boards every quarter...

    Nash
    Bell
    Lewis
    Diaw
    Stoudemire

    Sooo much offense in that lineup, so little defense, so nonexistent rebounding.
    This pretty much sums it up. Expect the Suns to stink next year if they let Marion go, with or without Amare.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Basketball
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    This guy is about as well-trusted as it gets when it comes to internet rumor sites:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1369

    To put it simply:

    Phoenix trades: Shawn Marion (doesn't get along with Amare, max contract), #27, possibly Barbosa

    Seattle Trades: Rashard Lewis (Can opt out after next year), #10, possibly Fortson

    Basically Phoenix does it to stay competitive for now while extending guys like Diaw, knowing that Lewis is likely a one year player.
    No way Phoenix does this deal. Phoenix's coach has repeatedly stated that it would take a no brainer for Marion to be traded. This is a clear win for Seattle. Just another rumor with no substance.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    I still don't understand why they'd want to trade Marion. With the season he had in the absence of Amare, the two of them together could be insane.
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Without Marion Phoenix has nobody to rebound the ball.

    THey cant run if the other team gets 15 offensive boards every quarter...

    Nash
    Bell
    Lewis
    Diaw
    Stoudemire

    Sooo much offense in that lineup, so little defense, so nonexistent rebounding.
    Amare is the rebounder in that line up and Lewis can grab about 8 a game, probably only about a 3 or 4 rebound dropoff.
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto
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    Amare is the rebounder in that line up and Lewis can grab about 8 a game, probably only about a 3 or 4 rebound dropoff.


    Rashard averaged 5RPG last year. Marion averaged 12, which was as many as Lewis and Diaw combined.

    Amare averages about 9 for his career. Rebounding is arguably one of his weakest suits.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    I don't see why a PF/C rotation of Kurt Thomas, Amare and Boris wouldn't allow them to get enough rebounding.
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Rashard averaged 5RPG last year. Marion averaged 12, which was as many as Lewis and Diaw combined.

    Amare averages about 9 for his career. Rebounding is arguably one of his weakest suits.
    Lewis will be in a much faster and shorter system tho, he an add 3rpg
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    Steve McQueen
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    I'd like to see this deal just to see how Marion performs in a non-Suns enviorment. Would he still put up the monster numbers?

    The sad thing is, if this does happen, Marion drops off the face of the NBA map while Shard suddenly becomes a household name come spring.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    I have heard reports before about Amare not getting along with some on the team. I didn't know Shawn was one of them.

    From a far away perspective ... Marion doesn't strike me at all as a difficult person, while Amare ... I don't know he's got something over him that I can easily see irritating others. I think the reports about him not getting along had especially to do with him acting as if he were a "gangster" in certain circumstances. I think it was two years ago when I heard it.

    And the Suns would like to re-sign Amare to the max and with the salary structure they currently have they are going to have trouble beying able to do that, so I see the reasoning from their side about trading their current highest contract (Marion).

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
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    I'd like to see this deal just to see how Marion performs in a non-Suns enviorment. Would he still put up the monster numbers?

    The sad thing is, if this does happen, Marion drops off the face of the NBA map while Shard suddenly becomes a household name come spring.
    I don't believe that will happen. Sure, Phoenix has a system that plays to the strengths and qualities that Marion seems to excell in, BUT Seattle wouldn't be a bad fit for him I think.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    I think Marion deserves a ton of credit for the Suns success the past two years. He has been one of the few contributers in both Sun's seasons. I think he will do great where ever he goes.
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    And the Suns would like to re-sign Amare to the max and with the salary structure they currently have they are going to have trouble beying able to do that, so I see the reasoning from their side about trading their current highest contract (Marion).
    Dang Morning, your usually on the ball. The Suns have already signed Amare to an extension.

    The rumor is they want to trade Marion so they can resign Leandrinho Barbosa and Boris Diaw. However, both Barbosa and Diaw are under contract next year. It's the year after that that they have to make a qualifying offer, so even if the Suns wanted to trade Marion so they could resign Barbosa and Diaw they wouldn't have to do it until next year.

    Now they do want to resign Tim Thomas, but that's not included in this particular rumor.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Dang Morning, your usually on the ball. The Suns have already signed Amare to an extension.

    The rumor is they want to trade Marion so they can resign Leandrinho Barbosa and Boris Diaw. However, both Barbosa and Diaw are under contract next year. It's the year after that that they have to make a qualifying offer, so even if the Suns wanted to trade Marion so they could resign Barbosa and Diaw they wouldn't have to do it until next year.

    Now they do want to resign Tim Thomas, but that's not included in this particular rumor.
    Ouch! That's pretty stupid of me. I must have missed it. I thought he had to be re-signed this summer.

    Then, yes, it changes the scenario I was talking about wholescale (sp?).

    Regards,

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Basketball
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    This guy is about as well-trusted as it gets when it comes to internet rumor sites:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1369

    To put it simply:

    Phoenix trades: Shawn Marion (doesn't get along with Amare, max contract), #27, possibly Barbosa

    Seattle Trades: Rashard Lewis (Can opt out after next year), #10, possibly Fortson

    Basically Phoenix does it to stay competitive for now while extending guys like Diaw, knowing that Lewis is likely a one year player.
    WELL-TRUSTED? This is the guy that got banned from one of the draft sites llast year (I'll see if I can find it) after he admitted that he made up the quotes in one of his "articles". In fact, he had never met with the people he had quoted. But I guess that is to be expected when it comes to Internet "jounalism". Don't trust anything or anyone, unless they're a PD member.
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    WELL-TRUSTED? This is the guy that got banned from one of the draft sites llast year (I'll see if I can find it) after he admitted that he made up the quotes in one of his "articles". In fact, he had never met with the people he had quoted. But I guess that is to be expected when it comes to Internet "jounalism". Don't trust anything or anyone, unless they're a PD member.
    Actually, that was about 2-3 years ago, I think...and yes, he's still the most trusted out there. I don't count the Chad Fords of the world since he's now at ESPN. I'm talking about just the "rumor" sites

    I'd rank them like this:

    1. nbadraft.net (they don't put out many rumors but you can infer a lot from their mock draft, I know some of these people pretty well)
    2. draftexpress.com (Givony has legitimate contacts across the league)
    3a. realgm.com (copies off everyone else)
    3b. hoopshype.com (see realgm.com)
    5. hoopsworld.com (Steve Kyler is an absolute moron, but for certain teams the beat reporters are pretty close to the team)

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Basketball
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    I'd rank them like this:

    1. nbadraft.net (they don't put out many rumors but you can infer a lot from their mock draft, I know some of these people pretty well)
    Like Loren Woods being the #1 pick, or giving The Clippers an "E" on draft night for trading Tyson Chandler for Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertmto
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    Lewis will be in a much faster and shorter system tho, he an add 3rpg
    1. Phoenix's system isn't that much faster than Seattle's.

    2. Do you have any idea how big a jump 3 rebounds per game is? That's an extra 240+ rebounds per season for a guy that wouldn't know where the paint was if you drew him a map.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Steve McQueen
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    NBAdraft.net consistently has the more accurate mock draft. However, it is true DraftExpress has far more content on their site. I check them both out daily.

    As for Shard Lewis, anyone who doesn't think the Suns high octane tempo will increase a players production is crazy. Its common sense really. More possessions, more shots, more misses etc. The high number of players who have had their career years under said system is all the proof you need. Nash, Amare, Marion, Diaw, Bell, Richardson, J. Johnson etc.
    I think in Phoenix's current system, Lewis could easily be a 24/8 player. Not quite on Marions level, but not nearly as far off as the casual fan would think. The question is, do the picks involved make it worthwhile for both teams? Hard to say....

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
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    As for Shard Lewis, anyone who doesn't think the Suns high octane tempo will increase a players production is crazy. Its common sense really.

    Phoenix is a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of total rebounds per game. Their style inflates points and assists, but that's pretty much it. Expecting a mediocre rebounder to increase his average to 8RPG is beyond silly.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Steve McQueen
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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Phoenix is a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of total rebounds per game. Their style inflates points and assists, but that's pretty much it. Expecting a mediocre rebounder to increase his average to 8RPG is beyond silly.
    The 5.0 rpg were by far the lowest of Shards career since becoming a starter. His first 4 years starting, he averaged between 6.5-7.1 each season. So to say it's beyond silly to expect Shard to average 8 rebounds per game, in a stats-friendly Phoenix system, is kind of streching it in my humble opinion.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McQueen
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    The 5.0 rpg were by far the lowest of Shards career since becoming a starter. His first 4 years starting, he averaged between 6.5-7.1 each season. So to say it's beyond silly to expect Shard to average 8 rebounds per game, in a stats-friendly Phoenix system, is kind of streching it in my humble opinion.
    His 5rpg average wasn't a fluke, it was part of a trend.

    Shard's rebounds have decreased each of the last 4 seasons. As his scoring has gone up, he's gone away from the paint entirely. He's becoming Glen Rice part 2.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big deal brewing between Phoenix/Seattle- Jonathan Givony

    Who would Pheonix take at 10?
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