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Thread: JO trade scenarios.

  1. #1

    Default JO trade scenarios.

    We all know how we offered JO for Bosh last summer and were turned down. We all know about the rumors of JO being trading for the 1rst or 2nd picks in this years draft. Maybe not rumors, but "ideas".

    http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv..._for_jermaine/

    Here is what stands out to me from the link above:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    O'Neal has been rumored to be on the market for several weeks now, despite statements made by the Indiana front office.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I really have doubts about JO being traded for a pick. There are a lot of reasons why it probably won't happen. From our standpoint would the Simons/Donnie allow this, do we hold onto JO to long like we did with Ron? Heck can Larry get a deal he likes? Again, probably not. And from the Raptors/Bulls standpoint do they want to take on JO and his injury problems and high dollar salary? Probably not.

    I question rather we trade JO for much of anything. We don't tend to make big trades like we would be making. But we are in a very unique situation, IMO. So we could change, especially if Bird has complete control of the team.

    But anyways, pretending that we try and trade JO this summer, i'd like to know who you think wants JO?

    You have to start off with the Knicks. I would consider them a real contender for JO. They have Channy Frye, and I would think they would trade him for JO. We would have to take a bad salary though to make it work.

    The Warriors would also be in the mix. They have a lot of nice players to offer us. Diogu/Biedrins/Pietrus/Foyle/Murphy/Dunlevy/Fisher/Ellis/Taft/9th pick. They have so much to offer us, they could get a deal done in a variety of ways.

    I guess the Bulls could have interest in JO. But do we trade JO to a team in our division? And do the Bulls give up enough to get JO? (2nd pick/Gordon maybe?) Do we want to re build? A lot of questions would have to be answered but I guess the Bulls could deal for JO.

  2. #2
    Member tdubb03's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    2nd pick and Gordon would be fabulous. I can't see Toronto taking Morrison #1, though it's not a stretch by any means. Take him at the 2.

    Ship Tinsley/Jax and our 17 and try to move up to around pick 9/10 and get Shelden Williams.

    Think about it, this could be our starters;

    1: Gordon
    2: Jax
    3: Morrison
    4: Foster/Williams/Harrison
    5. Williams/Foster/Harrison

    Hey, it's realistic.

    ------EDIT--------
    Man, that's so full of holes. Seattle wouldn't want Tinsley. Then there's the whole stojakovic Situation.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdubb03
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    2nd pick and Gordon would be fabulous. I can't see Toronto taking Morrison #1, though it's not a stretch by any means. Take him at the 2.

    Ship Tinsley/Jax and our 17 and try to move up to around pick 9/10 and get Shelden Williams.

    Think about it, this could be our starters;

    1: Gordon
    2: Jax
    3: Morrison
    4: Foster/Williams/Harrison
    5. Williams/Foster/Harrison

    Hey, it's realistic.

    ------EDIT--------
    Man, that's so full of holes. Seattle wouldn't want Tinsley. Then there's the whole stojakovic Situation.
    how can you ignore granger?

  4. #4

    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb
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    how can you ignore granger?
    and Peja ..... we just let a talented player walk? No way.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdubb03
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    2nd pick and Gordon would be fabulous. I can't see Toronto taking Morrison #1, though it's not a stretch by any means. Take him at the 2.

    Ship Tinsley/Jax and our 17 and try to move up to around pick 9/10 and get Shelden Williams.

    Think about it, this could be our starters;

    1: Gordon
    2: Jax
    3: Morrison
    4: Foster/Williams/Harrison
    5. Williams/Foster/Harrison

    Hey, it's realistic.
    Ben Gordon isn't a PG and where is Granger? And why is Williams starting at the 5? Do you just wanna give away 30 points in the paint a game?
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  6. #6
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    And Jermaine in Chicago?
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  7. #7
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Assuming the Garnett rumors have been proven to be just that, of what has been suggested here, if I were to trade JO, I'd look to work something with GS. It would have to include both Pietrus and Diogu, which I doubt they'd do of course.

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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    KG, JO, AI, apparently if your nickname is two letters you possibly will be traded over the summer.

    Why Not Us ?


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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    I've advocated a JO to Golden State deal for a while now. I think this kind of package would be a good one:

    Richardson and Diogu, plus one of the following: Pietrus, Biedrins, or a future 1st round pick.
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    There's an interesting thread on one of the most active and knowledgeable boards in the NBA, the Houston fan board "clutch city".

    People are naming who they think are the top 10 players in the NBA.

    19 posters have responded so far, and not one person lists Jermaine among their 10.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    There's an interesting thread on one of the most active and knowledgeable boards in the NBA, the Houston fan board "clutch city".

    People are naming who they think are the top 10 players in the NBA.

    19 posters have responded so far, and not one person lists Jermaine among their 10.
    Thats because he is not top 10, but that does not make him a bad player. If you had asked non-Indiana fans, Reggie would not have made a top ten list at any point in his career.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    There's an interesting thread on one of the most active and knowledgeable boards in the NBA, the Houston fan board "clutch city".

    People are naming who they think are the top 10 players in the NBA.

    19 posters have responded so far, and not one person lists Jermaine among their 10.
    Top ten players? Only the most homerific fan would place JO on that list. Top ten power forwards would be more interesting to read if made by non Indiana fans or otherwise unbiased observers.

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  14. #14
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    There's an interesting thread on one of the most active and knowledgeable boards in the NBA, the Houston fan board "clutch city".

    People are naming who they think are the top 10 players in the NBA.

    19 posters have responded so far, and not one person lists Jermaine among their 10.
    I can't think of a single person that could come up with any sort of an argument that JO is better than any of these guys:

    Kobe
    Duncan
    Lebron
    Wade
    Nash
    Dirk
    KG
    Brand
    Pierce
    McGrady
    Shaq

    I think the better question is whether he's even Top 20. These guys are all at least debatable: Iverson, Yao, Arenas, Vince, JKidd, Marion, Amare, Bosh, Carmelo, Manu, Tony Parker, Artest, Chris Paul, Chauncey, Jerome James (just checking to see if you're paying attention)
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Maybe the plan is to let JO increase his own trade value and let the team stabilize a little the coming season by getting the most prominent problems in the locker room out.

    Then if that works we go into full trading modus next summer when there's a nice draft, JO is much higher ranked again on the top players list (back to old weight, less injuries) and the coach can be replaced by someone who fits in better with the new direction the front office wants the team to go in without having to pay two coached at the sametime.

    Seems far fetched, but realistically we aren't going anywhere the coming year and what we have in players that we could trade doesn't warrant a lot of return value, so why not first improve that and then stay reasonably afloat by just making the play-offs and do the MAJOR restructuring next summer when our position for major trades and acquisitions is much better then it is this summer?

    Just throwing out a line of thought here.

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  17. #17
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Channing Frye =
    Shelden Williams =

    Seriously, guys, come on...

  18. #18
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Using JayRedd's list:

    Kobe - top 5
    Duncan - top 5
    Lebron - top 5
    Wade - top 10
    Nash - top 10 * (Just because he's MVP does not mean he's a top-5 player.)
    Dirk - top 10
    KG - top 5
    Brand - not a top-10 IMO
    Pierce - not a top-10 IMO
    McGrady - if he's included it with an "assume he's healthy assumption". Under that assumption, JO is also a top-10 player. You can't have it both ways.
    Shaq - top 5

    I think JO (assuming he's healthy) is a top 6-10 player. Which means that, when everything is going right, he's an longshot MVP candidate (as he was in 2003/04) and when he's hurt people forget just how good he is when he's healthy.

    Maybe we'll never see that version of JO again. But that would be a shame because JO does belong in that elite class of players.
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  19. #19
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Using JayRedd's list:

    Kobe - top 5
    Duncan - top 5
    Lebron - top 5
    Wade - top 10
    Nash - top 10 * (Just because he's MVP does not mean he's a top-5 player.)
    Dirk - top 10
    KG - top 5
    Brand - not a top-10 IMO
    Pierce - not a top-10 IMO
    McGrady - if he's included it with an "assume he's healthy assumption". Under that assumption, JO is also a top-10 player. You can't have it both ways.
    Shaq - top 5

    I think JO (assuming he's healthy) is a top 6-10 player. Which means that, when everything is going right, he's an longshot MVP candidate (as he was in 2003/04) and when he's hurt people forget just how good he is when he's healthy.

    Maybe we'll never see that version of JO again. But that would be a shame because JO does belong in that elite class of players.
    Top 6-10? I think JO's underrated, but not THAT underrated.

    I'd say Top 20-25, though, certainly. And Top 5 at his position.

    Still, he needs the right players to compliment him. Another "star" (Peja?) and 3-4 good "role-players;" Magloire, Al, etc.

  20. #20

    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Amare (assuming good health), Carmelo, Iverson, Yao, Marion, Manu, and JayRedd's top 10 are all above JO IMO

    I'm wavering on Parker, Arenas, Bosh, Billups, and Paul.

    That puts him in the 17-22 range.

    I might be overinflating his abilities, since I admit to being a Pacer fan homer. I think most impartial NBA fans would have him in the 20-30 range.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  21. #21
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    I'm wavering on Parker, Arenas, Bosh, Billups, and Paul.
    I might give you Arenas, but that's it from that list. Bosh, maybe, in time, but not right now.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Yeah, but every one of those (post) players also need another "star" and 3-4 good role players.

    Kobe - wing player with ball in his hands > 75% of the time
    Duncan - post player with another star (Ginoboli) and 3-4 GREAT role players
    LeBron - wing player with ball in his hands > 75% of the time
    Wade - wing player with ball in his hands > 50% of the time, and another STAR (Shaq) and 3-4 good-to-great role players
    Nash - PG with ball in his hands >75% of the time, two additional stars (Stoudamire and Marion) and several great role players
    Dirk - maybe there isn't another "star" but the rest of this team follows the Detroit Pistons "team" model very, very well
    KG - falling in stock for similar reasons to JO's alleged decline - he's supporting cast sucks. But KG is still KG
    Brand - I'd give Cassell and Mobley more credit for the Clippers resurgence than Brand
    Pierce - wing player with the ball in his hands > 75% of the time but does not belong on this list
    McGrady - wing player with the ball in his hands ? 50% of the time with another border-line star (Yao) but a weak cast of role players
    Shaq - post player with another Star (Wade) and 3-4 good-to-great role players.

    I think this argument that "JO is not top-whatever because he needs to play with players that compliment his game" is nonsense.

    Don't blame JO for the perceived drop in his value - blame management for putting together a team that exposed his weaknesses.

    That's still true of every single great player in the NBA. Basketball is still a team game.

    Let's play the game this way - which of those top-ten players, if you dropped them onto the Pacers and took away JO, would clearly make the Pacers a better team?

    Same list:

    Kobe - that's iffy - because we'd be a doughnut team and we'd probably still lose in the first round of the playoffs.
    Duncan - yes (assuming no plantar fasciaitis)
    LeBron - same problem as Kobe
    Wade - same problem as LeBron and Kobe
    Nash - that's interesting, but this team is certainly not cut out to play with Nash
    Dirk - probably yes, but I'd be concerned about a defensive frontline of Dirk and Jeff - talk about soft
    KG - I'm not convinced KG alone would make the rest of the Pacers any better. That's an interesting debate, though
    Brand - I believe JO is a better player than Brand, although of course their stats are similar
    Pierce/ McGrade - same problems as discussed before with players that aren't even as good as Kobe, LeBron, and Wade so the team probably wouldn't even make the playoffs
    Shaq - heck yes, but not for much longer
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  23. #23
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Would I trade JO for...

    Kobe? Hell yes.
    Duncan? Yes.
    LeBron? Hell f-ing yes.
    Wade? Probably.
    Nash? Probably not due to his age.
    Dirk? Probably now I would since he's changed.
    KG? Probably.
    Brand? Tough call.
    Pierce? No.
    McGrady? Unlikely, but I'd think about it.
    Shaq? Not now.

  24. #24
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Would I trade JO for...

    Kobe? Hell yes.
    Duncan? Yes.
    LeBron? Hell f-ing yes.
    Wade? Probably.
    Nash? Probably not due to his age.
    Dirk? Probably now I would since he's changed.
    KG? Probably.
    Brand? Tough call.
    Pierce? No.
    McGrady? Unlikely, but I'd think about it.
    Shaq? Not now.
    I pretty much agree with that.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: JO trade scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Using JayRedd's list:

    Kobe - top 5
    Duncan - top 5
    Lebron - top 5
    Wade - top 10
    Nash - top 10 * (Just because he's MVP does not mean he's a top-5 player.)
    Dirk - top 10
    KG - top 5
    Brand - not a top-10 IMO
    Pierce - not a top-10 IMO
    McGrady - if he's included it with an "assume he's healthy assumption". Under that assumption, JO is also a top-10 player. You can't have it both ways.
    Shaq - top 5
    If that's your list, you're stuck in the past.
    These lists are silly, and what does it even mean to be better when comparing apples and oranges (i.e. Nash vs. JO), but they're fun to do so I'll throw my hat into the ring. To clarify what it means to be "best", I'm gonna say this is the order I would draft guys if the whole league was re-drafted. They're not ranked within each category:


    Franchise guys anyone would love to build around (1-4)
    Dirk, LeBron, Wade, Duncan

    Elite, but Limited or Have Question Marks (5-9)
    Kobe, Nash, McGrady, KG, Brand

    Those guys you ansolutely can't argue with. Now...
    Very good and IMHO much better than JO (11-22)
    Paul Pierce (did anyone actually watch the season he had; amazing), Chris Bosh, Shaq (he could very easily drop off the list), Tony Parker, Manu Ginnobli, Yao, Amare, Marion, Pau Gasol, Michael Redd, Ray Allen, Iverson, Arenas

    Put JO at 23 at the earliest.

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