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Thread: Who's right?

  1. #1
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    Default Who's right?

    This has been a concern in the back of my mind, but I don't know if it's worth worrying about or not. Could be legit, but I kind of doubt it. But then I think of those Miami Heat teams.....

    A Pistons fan:

    This is why I didn't like Carlisle. All the other teams are playing "regular season" ball right now while his team always plays playoff style all year round. The problem is that every playoff team elevates their game while the Pacers can't elevate because they are playing playoff basketball right now. This is why we struggled in the playoffs against weak opponents like the Magic and the Raptors.
    A Celtics fan's response/disagreement:

    I disagree UncleCliffy.

    The Celts play playoff style basketball all season long and still find a way to notch it up in the postseason. The Celts to play this way because they are simply not as talented as teams like the Pacers. The Pacers struggled in the playoffs against weak opponents like the Magic and the Raptors because the coaching staff was not doing its job well. Thomas did not prepare his team and did not make adjustments. The Pacers (even after losing Miller and gaining Pollard) are a much stronger team with Carlise at the helm. They are focused and prepared to win every night. They will be tough to beat this year IMO.
    I tend to think we'll be OK, because at the very least we're talented so it's not like we're scrubs hanging on in the regular season by playing our butts of at peak efficiency, but I do worry somewhat.

  2. #2
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    In the playoffs, you can always turn it up a notch.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Who's right?

    Well Rick took the pistons to the ECF
    How bad of a playoff coach can he be?

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    See that kind of stuff from Piston fans all the time on other boards. Think it is just sour grapes myself. This is only his third year as a head coach, I think his first two showings in the playoffs with the team he had were more than respectable.

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    What about the "Miami Heat" syndrome? Are we a potential victim of that?

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    This week we have played several "playoff" like games. They were up for us and we were up for them. We won those games.

    Spurs, Pistons, New Jersey those were all "playoff" atmospheres.

  7. #7
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    I was just thinking about this very issue.

    Rick like Pat Riley get their teams to play with playoff intensity during the regular season more often than most coaches, so then in the playoffs when the all teams play harder sometimes their teams suffer by comparision.

    That is a legitimate point and a point I have made several times in the past.

    Two very quick points.

    1) Let's assume that is true and that for this reason the pacers won't have another gear to turn to. What can we do about it. Tell the team to let up now, win 48 games and then be a surprise team in the playoffs. That makes no sense.

    2) What is more important than all of this is the type of players you have. Can they step up in the presure situations. We know from last year and prior years that Reggie if healthy can and from last year we know Ron and J.O can.


    Hope I have made some sense I typed this very fast

  8. #8

    Default Re: Who's right?

    2) What is more important than all of this is the type of players you have. Can they step up in the presure situations. We know from last year and prior years that Reggie if healthy can and from last year we know Ron and J.O can.
    Yes, those guys can and will step it up

    My big ? is AL

    If he doesn't show up again...we could be in trouble

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    I think Al had his bad playoffs last year like Jermaine has his the year before. I just hope Al turns it arround like Jermaine did.

    Oh and as far as Jermaine being able to step it up another notch. We know he can. Remember the 25 points and 18 rebounds a game? That was another level over his regular season stats.

    We know we can count on Reggie and oddly enough Austin plays much better in the playoffs. Tins stepped it up last year no reason to think he cant again. I am not worried about the playoffs.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    I think I've heard Kstat say similar things about Rick's coaching style, and how he is slow to make adjustments in the postseason.

    I have the same apprehension as you do, Hicks. I can't help but think that our regular season prowess will do nothing but help us come playoff time. We never did figure out how to win playoff games under IT. I'm confident we can do that this year.

    Also, Carlisle won't necessarily coach the same way in the playoffs as he did for the Pistons. He's been to the playoffs twice now; his experience should teach him lessons along the way. He's still an awfully young head coach.

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    Sounds like somebody fishing for a ray of hope IMO.

    Can they turn it up? Have they played aperfect game yet? How many games have they grabbed a lead and INCREASED it with no let up?

    Yes, they can improve.
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    Two things:

    1) We are a better team than the Pistons were under Carlisle, and they made the ECF last year.

    2) Carlisle has already proven that he's prepared to make adjustments as necessary if it helps the team (see the new offense with the return of Tinsley).

    I'm not worried at all. The only teams that might be a problem if they "turn it up a notch" are the Nets and Pistons. We're way too far ahead of everyone else to worry about them.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Who's right?

    When people were talking about the Detriot team last year the full statement about them was that they played hard during the regular season to compensate for a lack of depth and talent.

    I have never heard that the Pacers play hard to compensate for a lack of depth or talent.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    Let's analyze a wee bit:

    Guys that can and will step it up a notch because it is the play-offs and they want to win the show: JO, Reg, Tins, Ron.
    These guys simply have proven that their will to win is so strong that it enhances their performance in the PO's, this has nothing to do with coaching, this is a mental state of the player, high adrenaline levels and such.

    Guys how "could" (they did at sometime) turn it up: Cro, Jeff, Pollie.
    Cro showed it at some moment, Jeff and Pollie are the type of player with an intensity that matches the occassion, so high hopes all around.

    Question marks:

    Al, KA, AJ, FJ. Who will be part of the team is a question i dare not answer at this moment, it depends on more then ability i would say, intensity will be an important factor as will the "likelyhood" of injury be, should you take an injury prone role-player or gamble on the intensity of another one is a BIG question. However for one Al has not yet shown clutch that much to me, choked to often in the past to be confident but might be able to turn it up a notch or two perhaps, as long as he does not think he is the man and can not miss a shot he should do well. KA and AJ or FJ, who to take is the question (see above) and more so, what if Bender shows up in the second half of the season? tough decisions to make for a coach and that is where he might make mistakes but can possibly draw upon the experience of Larry and in a way of Donnie.

    In general i expect this team to improve on all accounts on their stat lines in the play-off, that's what makes this team so scary, we all know some of them have another gear above this one.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    Mentally I don't see how we could possibly have a let down. This is a ballclub that's very hungry for a playoff series win, and continuing their mission in the playoffs.

    JO wants it real bad. Reggie Miller is realizing that it's now or never, and his ankle seems to be fine. Reggie could really be the X factor in any potential playoff series.

    Another thing about this team is that right now they're grounded and they know that people aren't going to give them the respect that they deserve if they don't show it in the postseason.

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    The whole season builds for what?.... the playoffs. I like the fact that the Pacers are forming good habits such as playing 48 minutes with defensive intensity,discipline, and resilience.

    They will raise there game in the playoffs...but there are always rough spots during the playoffs... when the game isn't going your way....not getting the calls... shots aren't dropping...etc. Indy will have these good habits to fall back on, which will hopefully give them an edge against other teams who maybe didn't learn to play with a playoff mentality during the regular season.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Who's right?

    It is nonsense to say a guy can coach in regular season, but not in the playoffs.

    Either a guy can coach, or he can't.

    Carlisle is a good enough coach to take his team as far as the talent will allow him.

    As for the Pacers, if Tinsley and Reggie can play as well in the playoffs as they are now, the Pacers have enough talent to win the East, and even more.

    Detroit had no one on their squad last year (or this) who was anywhere the equal of this year's Jermaine O'Neal. All other things being close to equal, the team with the best player will win.

    I believe Carlisle and the Pacers, if the team is reasonably healthy, will do just fine in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    A few thoughts:

    Rotations must shorten in the playoffs - your top four players will play more minutes and that's how teams step it up in the playoffs. If we are playing nine or ten guys, we'll get beat again and again and again. This is the great advantage of this year's team: our three best offensive players (JO, Ron, Al) are our three best defensive players. Since Tinsley is playing better D, we're only choosing between offense and defense at SG and maybe PF (although Al and Jeff are fairly equal defensively, so you're really picking between Al's scoring and Jeff's rebounding.)

    My only concern with Carlisle is the other thing he's criticized for in Detroit. The complaint I've heard: if Okur and Prince had recieved more consistent preparation during the regular season last year, the Pistons would have had a better chance to go to The Finals. I can guarantee that, based on how little he's played, Brezec won't be ready to contribute in the playoffs. I understand that today, its probably a toss-up between Primoz and Pollard, but Primoz at least has the capacity to get better. Its pretty clear that Pollard is not getting any better (although he is figuring out how to occasionally make a positive contribution ed: .)

    My definition of Pat Riley syndrome was that he was already playing a seven or eight man rotation before the playoffs started.

    We still have the capacity to improve because we'll see less of Anthony Johnson, Fred Jones and the three-headed monster (Crosher, Bender, Pollard) playing against the other team's starters in the playoffs and more of JO, Al, Ron, Reggie and Jamaal.

    I've been very impressed with Carlisle's adjustments this season. Everyone nationally or in Detroit wants to assume that just because he coached one way in Detroit means that's the only way he can coach. Since he was the primary coach during the Larry Bird era, we should have known better, although many of us got caught up in that misconception. Its much safer to assume that Larry Brown only coaches one way because he's done it one way at every stop.
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    A few thoughts:

    Rotations must shorten in the playoffs - your top four players will play more minutes and that's how teams step it up in the playoffs. If we are playing nine or ten guys, we'll get beat again and again and again. This is the great advantage of this year's team: our three best offensive players (JO, Ron, Al) are our three best defensive players. Since Tinsley is playing better D, we're only choosing between offense and defense at SG and maybe PF (although Al and Jeff are fairly equal defensively, so you're really picking between Al's scoring and Jeff's rebounding.)

    My only concern with Carlisle is the other thing he's criticized for in Detroit. The complaint I've heard: if Okur and Prince had recieved more consistent preparation during the regular season last year, the Pistons would have had a better chance to go to The Finals. I can guarantee that, based on how little he's played, Brezec won't be ready to contribute in the playoffs. I understand that today, its probably a toss-up between Primoz and Pollard, but Primoz at least has the capacity to get better. Its pretty clear that Pollard is not getting any better (although he is figuring out how to occasionally make a positive contribution ed: .)

    My definition of Pat Riley syndrome was that he was already playing a seven or eight man rotation before the playoffs started.

    We still have the capacity to improve because we'll see less of Anthony Johnson, Fred Jones and the three-headed monster (Crosher, Bender, Pollard) playing against the other team's starters in the playoffs and more of JO, Al, Ron, Reggie and Jamaal.

    I've been very impressed with Carlisle's adjustments this season. Everyone nationally or in Detroit wants to assume that just because he coached one way in Detroit means that's the only way he can coach. Since he was the primary coach during the Larry Bird era, we should have known better, although many of us got caught up in that misconception. Its much safer to assume that Larry Brown only coaches one way because he's done it one way at every stop.

    Damn good post Jay. You are exactly right Ron will play beginning to end in the playoffs J.O. Reggie and Tins will all play more minutes.

    Al and Foster will probably play about the same.

    That means the other players like Fred Jones, either AJ or Kenny probably Bender and depending on the team we are playing Pollard will not even sniff the floor.

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    Default Re: Who's right?

    A few thoughts:

    Rotations must shorten in the playoffs - your top four players will play more minutes and that's how teams step it up in the playoffs. If we are playing nine or ten guys, we'll get beat again and again and again.
    Fallacy! Rotations shorten because the coach feels the collar tightening around his neck, and he isn't willing to risk the game with his 10th best player.
    That ALWAYS results in FATIGUED players at the end of the game.
    IF a team had enough QUALITY depth (like we do), then playing 10 would be a HUGE advantage over a 7 game series.

    -snip-

    You're selling short what Scott's done the last few games! He's doing what they've needed from him all season. He could be a "B" factor in the playoffs.
    Here's where we disagree (and its okay if we do because you make compelling arguments that I used to believe in 100%; so I understand what you're saying ):

    I'm tired of watching the Pacers' playoff opponent shorten thier rotations to six or seven players and then beat us because we spend too much time with Jon Bender guarding Pierce or Kevin Ollie and Ron Mercer splitting time at the point against Jason Kidd or Sam Perkins vs. Shaq or whatever.

    I've posted this before, but almost every year in the playoffs we lose to a team with less "depth" but with a one or more of players (Pierce and Walker, Kidd and Martin, Iverson, Shaq and the guy 'out on bail', Houston and Camby - [size=9:c8664e67e0]at least for one playoff series[/size], Jordan and Pippen, Steve Smith, Shaq again, Patrick, Patrick again, McHale, Bird, Dumars & Thomas, Dominique, Julius) better than anyone we have.

    We played our key players less minutes than Boston's guys last year and they still out-executed us down the stretch [size=9:c8664e67e0] (yes I know that was the worst coaching job I've ever seen and that was a big factor, too). [/size] Fatigue should never be a factor in the playoffs - back-to-backs rarely exist in the playoffs and if there is a back-to-back (usually EC semifinals, game #3 on Saturday and #4 on Sunday so NBC can have their tripleheaders - I'm not sure this exists under the new broadcast contract?) there is no travel between games.

    [hr]
    And I just can't bring myself to say too many nice things about Pollard. [size=9:c8664e67e0] If you could check my post archive at the old PD you'd see that's about the nicest thing I've ever said about Pollard.[/size]
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Who's right?

    I don't buy the original premise at all.

    Just like you play like you practice, you play in the play-offs like you do in the regular season.

    Not sure how Carlisle's taking Detroit to the ECF in his second season (and didn't they make the 2nd rd two years ago?) should be considered some huge black hole indicating a lack of playoff success anyway.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  22. #22
    Member indytoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    I dunno if this is reviving a dead topic or not, but this comment came up in the latest Aldridge Q&A, and it applies to the topic, so...

    Ryan (Seattle, Washington): Hey DA. A criticism of the Pistons last year was that the Carlisle offense, although great for grinding out regular season wins, was too predictable for the playoffs. Same problem for this years Pacers? Will defenses be anticipating every move?

    David Aldridge: It could be, Ryan. I saw the Pacers in Indy on Tuesday and they do look strong, but there isn't a lot of pizazz in the attack, to be sure. However, Rick didn't have a low-post option like Jermaine in Detroit last season, and that will make a difference. I think the Pacers are clearly the best team in the east and should get to the Finals.

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  23. #23
    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's right?

    I think Al had his bad playoffs last year like Jermaine has his the year before. I just hope Al turns it arround like Jermaine did.

    Oh and as far as Jermaine being able to step it up another notch. We know he can. Remember the 25 points and 18 rebounds a game? That was another level over his regular season stats.

    We know we can count on Reggie and oddly enough Austin plays much better in the playoffs. Tins stepped it up last year no reason to think he cant again. I am not worried about the playoffs.
    And let's not forget Ron-Ron. He had a great series last year.

    If there was ever a year where I was confident these guys were hungry enough to "step it up," it's this one. They want it bad.

    I think the main thing is health. If we have no major injuries before the playoffs (other than Kenny/AJ/Brewer), we'll be fine.

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