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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
The one who didn't just have back surgery.
Originally posted by FrenchConnection
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!). -
Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Unhealthy Duhon = SucksOriginally posted by FrenchConnection
Healthy Duhon = Sucks
Unhealthy Tinsley = Sucks
Healthy Tinsley = Doesnt Suck
I'll take my chances on Tinsley being healthy then Duhon suddenly learning how to play basketball.Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Considering their stats are almost identical (except for Assist/TO ratio where Duhon's is much better), I'd definitely take the guy who actually stays in shape and doesn't sit out games with PMS.
edit: ps, oh yeah, and the one that can actually hit a 3 pointer occasionally.Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Actually, the last time Tinsley stayed healthy for a signifigant ammount of time, he was palying at a near All-Star level. 15.4/6.4/4.1/2 steals in only 32 minutes a game. He was also hitting a very respectable .372 from downtown. There's no reason to believe he can't replicate that production provided he stays healthy.Originally posted by Mr._BasketballComment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Originally posted by Steve McQueen
I guess you don't take the other 95% of the time into consideration.
He can't stay healthy, and is a drain on the team for numerous reasons because of it.“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
http://www.nbadraft.net/draftbuzz065.asp
NBA Draft: Top 5 (Attributes) Lists
By Aran Smith
6/26/06
With the draft just 2 days away, here's a look at some of the top players breaking down their attributes into various (top 5 list) categories for the 2006 NBA Draft.
Rodney Carney
AP Photo: Matt Slocum
Athleticism:
Rodney Carney
Tyrus Thomas
Rudy Gay
Shannon Brown
Ronnie Brewer
Speed:
Dee Brown
Rajon Rondo
Will Blalock
Rodney Carney
Kyle Lowry
Strength:
Eric Williams
JP Batista
Hassan Adams
PJ Tucker
Shelden Williams
Explosiveness (Guards):
Guillermo Diaz
Dwayne Mitchell
James White
Shannon Brown
Maurice Ager
(Forwards) Explosiveness:
Tyrus Thomas
Rudy Gay
Rodney Carney
Pops Mensah-Bonsu
Cedric Simmons
Length:
Saer Sene
Patrick O'Bryant
Hilton Armstrong
LaMarcus Aldridge
Shelden Williams
Shooters:
JJ Redick
Steve Novak
Rashad Anderson
Kevin Pittsnogle
Quincy Douby
Passers:
Marcus Williams
Jordan Farmar
Sergio Rodriguez
Will Blalock
Jose Juan Barea
Defenders:
Bobby Jones
Shelden Williams
Tyrus Thomas
Hilton Armstrong
Daniel Gibson
Competitors:
Adam Morrison
Kyle Lowry
Randy Foye
Brandon Roy
JJ Redick
Versatility:
Brandon Roy
Ronnie Brewer
Rudy Gay
Mardy Collins
Shawne Williams
Basketball IQ:
Adam Morrison
Gerry McNamarra
Brandon Roy
Mike Gansey
Jordan Farmar
Potential:
Rudy Gay
Tyrus Thomas
Saer Sene
Andrea Bargnani
Patrick O'Bryant
Sure Bets:
Adam Morrison
Brandon Roy
Randy Foye
Shelden Williams
Ronnie Brewer
Sleepers:
Sergio Rodriguez
Denham Brown
Daniel Gibson
Louis Amundson
Renaldo Balkman"I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
-Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Actually, whenever hes been healthy Tinsley has played well and has helped the team win.Originally posted by Since86
And I dont consider his early career long distance shooting woes an issue anymore, since he proved those were in the past.Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
So let me get this straight...you took the best 5% of games Tinsley has ever played and compared them to Chris Duhon's average game.
Yeah, thats a legit comparison.
That freaks me out every time.Originally posted by blanketComment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
http://www.nba.com/draft2006/profile...ittsnogle.html
Why did this guy drop so much."He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
I can't possibly believe Williams would drop that low.
As for the Boston stuff, remember Doc at least has a very high opinion of Tinsley.Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Won't be able to get his shot off in the NBA. Very average athlete. Won't be able to defend any spot on the floor.Originally posted by aceace
If he's lucky he'll have a career as good as Matt Bullard's.Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Isn't that what thay said about Brad Miller as well?...Originally posted by Mr._Basketball
"George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears 
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Two reasons why Williams could easily drop to #17Originally posted by Kegboy
1. His checkered past.
2. He was absolutely brutal in the pre-draft athletic tests,
Those are two pretty big knocks against him.
Actually it's 14.6%Originally posted by Mr._BasketballSo let me get this straight...you took the best 5% of games Tinsley has ever played and compared them to Chris Duhon's average game.
Yeah, thats a legit comparison.
And considering the fact that it's the most recent stretch of healthy play Tinsley's had, it's the most logical to use. Afterall, players do have personal development you know
Tinsleys capable of 16/7/4/2 steals on a winning team. Is Duhon? I highly doubt it.
Originally posted by tadscout
As you can see they're not that similar. Brad Miller dominated in under 30 minutes a game. 63%+ shooting, 9 boards, close to 2 blocks and over a steal a game. Not to mention his great passing.
Pittsnoggle on the other hand is clearly nothing more than a 6'11" shooter. 5.5 rpg in 36 minutes at the college level? That is way beyond terrible. He's also a terrible defender. So it's easy to see why he'll go in the 2nd round. He's nothing more than a poor mans Matt Bonner.Comment
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
Brad Miller is a 7'0 center.Originally posted by tadscout
Pittsnoggle is a 6'8 small forward.
Big difference in the type of athleticism required.
Interesting you bring that up since Duhon is 23 and Tinsley is 28. Are you saying you think its more likely that Tinsley improves than Duhon?Originally posted by Steve McQueen
Actually it's 14.6%
And considering the fact that it's the most recent stretch of healthy play Tinsley's had, it's the most logical to use. Afterall, players do have personal development you know
Tinsleys capable of 16/7/4/2 steals on a winning team. Is Duhon? I highly doubt it.
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Re: The mock draft thread, 2006 NBA draft
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarti...d=print&a=1375
Pacers-related part in bold
An American Perspective on Europe: The Wings
Luis Fernández - Director of International Scouting
Jonathan Givony - President
June 27, 2006
In part three of our four part series we look at the wing players or wannabe wing players available in this draft. We find three age eligible 1984-born prospects, one lock first rounder, one first round hopeful, and two that could be draft and stash prospects for the second round.
Thabo Sefolosha is a long wing player who combines American athleticism with European fundamentals. Marquinhos is a rangy Brazilian with good touch from the perimeter but limited experience in competitive five on five settings despite his age. Lior Eliyahu is a prolific combo forward who is one of the most improved players in Europe over the past few years. And Panagiotis Vasilopoulos is a smart and reliable all-around player who is a key rotation piece on an excellent Euroleague squad.
Thabo Sefolosha, 6-7, SG/SF, 1984, (Switzerland), Biella
Thabo Sefolosha is a player who was considered quite an obscure prospect when he first started appearing in our weekly European roundups and 2006 mock draft well over a year ago. Many NBA scouts we spoke to in April at the Portsmouth Invitational Tournament did not even know who he was when we asked about him back then. Now, after finally being able to show himself in private workouts, Sefolosha’s buzz is right around where it should be, with there even being some talk of him crashing the lottery on draft night.
He’s a unique prospect in this draft, combining your typical European fundamentals and outstanding feel for the game with the type of explosiveness that you’ll usually only find in American prospects. He is a very smooth athlete, capable of getting by his man with a nice 1st step, being highly fluid and coordinated and able to get off the ground with a solid vertical leap to finish plays around the hoop or block shots. His frame looks decent even though he might be lacking a bit of strength at the moment, particularly in the lower body where he could stand to add some more bulk.
His best attribute and what has gotten him noticed and on the floor for the past 4 years is his defensive ability, showing excellent aggressiveness and toughness, super long arms, great understanding of how to defend spaces, and the footwork, timing and hands to place himself in the right spot at the right time. He excels both in man to man and team defense, showing very good awareness and being quick to rotate and cover for his teammates. He’s an active player who plays with purpose and will come up with plenty of steals and even your occasional blocked shot. Rebounding is another big strength of his thanks to all the characteristics outlined above, even pulling down am impressive 15 boards just this past week in the Italian league.
Offensively, he is mostly a slasher, capable of using his excellent ball-handling skills, footwork and high basketball IQ to create shots for himself and his teammates. He takes the ball strong to the hoop and uses the angles presented to him well to finish or get to the line. Sefolosha was a point guard early in his career, and indeed played a bit of a point-forward role for Biella at times, bringing the ball up the floor and showing excellent court vision and passing ability finding the open man off the dribble. He likes to crash the glass and start the fast break on his own, picking his spots very well on the floor, being highly unselfish—almost to a fault at times, but usually making the right decision.
Being a player who could get to the hoop almost whenever he pleased early in his career thanks to his ball-handling skills and athletic ability, Sefolosha’s perimeter shooting is not as advanced as the rest of his game. His shot mechanics need work as his release is a bit on the slow side and he lacks range and consistency on his jump shot. His effectiveness drops off considerably when he’s asked to shoot the ball off the dribble, even from mid-range. He’s getting better in this area all the time, improving his percentages from 32% from 3-point range last year on a little over two attempts per game to a more respectable 41% this year on 2.6 attempts per game. He’s become a lot more confident in his outside shot and his offense in general this year, but still, it will take time for him to expand his range to the NBA 3-point line as well as become more than just a catch and shoot threat with his feet set.
The worst thing you could say about Sefolosha is that he is more of a role-player than he is a potential star. Teams looking to swing for the fences and find the next coming will probably want to look elsewhere. Being automatically eligible as a 1984 prospect, he won’t be projected to have the same upside that some of the underclassmen in this draft do. He has been noticeably improving in almost every facet from year to year, though, so it might be too early to say that his development process is done. Even if NBA teams aren’t sold on him being ready to play in the NBA, he is pretty versatile in the fact that a team that is short on roster spots could decide to draft him and keep him in Europe for another season—and if they do want to bring him over, he has a clear buyout clause in his contract for only $385,000, well under what NBA teams are allowed to pay. A playoff team that is looking for an extremely solid and mature all-around player to step in and do the little things for them is the type of situation where he could really thrive—Chicago for example.
Sefolosha has a chance at #10 (Seattle) and will get long hard looks at both #14 (Utah) and #15 (New Orleans). The Bulls are a perfect fit at #16, and he is very high up on Indiana’s board at #17. Even though it’s hard to see him slipping much further, this is an unpredictable draft and the Phoenix Suns would likely be doing back flips in their war room if he was still available at #21.
Marcus Vinicius Viera de Souza (Marquinhos), 6-9, Small Forward, 1984, (Brazil)
Luis Fernandez
Another product of the lately very prolific Brazilian pool, Marcus Vinicius Vieira de Souza is not your typical 22-year old player.
He first and foremost went through a very strange season for a player his age, rather than already being established with a competitive team. Marquinhos played for a very weak Brazilian team early in the season, and then devoted himself to private training to prepare for the draft. Second, you might expect a guy his age to be a bit more mature at this point, especially considering that he’s not a player who learned the game yesterday, nor any kind of newcomer.
Still, Marquinhos shows a very intriguing package. He’s a legit wing player with excellent size at 6-9. He enjoys nice athleticism, because even if he’s not a great leaper, he is a quick guy, really quick considering his size. Marquinhos is a nice shooter, being especially worthy of mentioning his ability to create his own shot, as he’s really hard to stop given his size and his ability to deliver pull-up jumpers off the dribble. On the other hand, he’s rather inconsistent, and tends to fade away on any given shot, even when firing open in catch-and-shoot mode, failing to keep steady mechanics.
This season Marquinhos looks quite improved in the ball-handling department. He looks really comfortable driving the ball, and this circumstance helps him immensely with his slashing game, where he shows a nice first step and the footwork to operate in traffic. Again there’s a downside here, as he really suffers to consistently put the ball in the net. Marquinhos lacks some ability to perform layups against any opposition, and he rarely explodes to dunk the ball in traffic. At least, he passes quite well off the dribble, looking for the open man on the perimeter. This is another area where he’s much more active now, also willing to take a few more risks.
Defensively, although he looks improved in one-on-one situations, he’s not a stopper and his team defense is still very poor. He lacks a bit of activity here, more commitment if you will. In general, he’s not a particularly aggressive player, and you can see it on both ends of the court.
All in all, Marquinhos’ current status comes down to lack of reliability and predictability. His game is not very dependable; not having any source of consistent scoring, and not exactly being an asset to his team on defense. However, he’s still a bit of an immature guy who could very well manage to polish his game and find that consistency, which would make him a valuable player. After all, the potential is there, and not every player fulfills it at the same age. Still, it might not be enough for him to crack the first round based off how much of a wildcard he is at this point and already being age-eligible.
Lior Eliyahu, 6-9, SF/PF, 1985, (Israel), Galil Elyon
FIBAEurope.com
Jonathan Givony
A player that not many expected to keep his name in the draft, Lior Eliyahu is taking a calculated risking and betting on the fact that his outstanding combination of current production and future potential gets him drafted in the 2nd round.
Eliyahu, “the Diamond” as he’s called in Israel, is one of the most prolific International players in his age group. Despite breaking his hand midway through the season and ruining plenty of excellent momentum he had going for him, he still managed to average 16 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.3 steals and 0.7 blocks in 27 minutes per game, being named to the FIBA Eurocup allstar game along the way.
Eliyahu is a mismatch anyway you slice it, slithery around the basket, crafty with his moves, quick and explosive, and extremely intelligent and confident in everything he does. He has good size at 6-9, excellent length and extremely big hands.
Eliyahu does plenty of damage around the painted area with his deadly touch at the rim, and is capable of stepping outside and knocking down a 3-pointer if he has time to set his feet. Running the floor in transition with a true point guard is where he really shines. Possibly the biggest improvement we’ve seen this past season is in his ball-handling skills—once being quite limited in the moves he could make on the perimeter to now being capable of putting the ball on the floor and making his way to the hoop fairly effectively. His passing has also improved by leaps and bounds, as evidenced by the 3.1 assists per game he averaged this past season in the Israeli league, up from 1.7 the year before.
Eliyahu has great instincts for the game and plays with the type of purpose you love to see from someone so young. He challenges players much older than him on a regular basis and has no problem stepping up to take clutch shots when the game is on the line. Seeing the improvement Eliyahu has made from being just another average Joe two-three years ago to one of the top players in the world at his age leaves some optimism about his work ethic and potential to continue to improve.
As a basketball player, there is little doubt that Eliyahu can compete with the best of them. The doubt that does exist revolves mostly around how he fits in at the NBA level, particularly in terms of his position on the floor. Eliyahu plays mostly power forward in Europe and is so effective largely because of the mismatches he creates. In the NBA he might be forced to slide down a spot and become a small forward, and this is where he will encounter some problems.
First and foremost would be defensively, where he’s already lackluster at any position and in any league he plays in. He lacks the lateral quickness to defend most of the explosive small forwards we find in the NBA, and probably isn’t strong enough to defend bigger power forwards in the post. Seeing him getting burned on a defensive rotation or picking up foolish fouls is not rare even in the Israeli league, which at times forces him to sit on the bench when his team needs him on the court.
Second would be his perimeter shot. Eliyahu’s mechanics are very flawed and he lacks range, quickness and consistency on his jump-shot. He can knock down 3-pointers when he has time to set his feet, but struggles when forced to put the ball on the floor and pull-up off the dribble.
Lastly would be his shot-creating ability. Eliyahu’s ball-handling skills have improved considerably over the past year, but he will need to continue to work on his entire perimeter game to effectively make the move to small forward.
What makes Eliyahu intriguing for plenty of teams drafting in the 2nd round is the fact that he is in no position to force a guaranteed tender from them this summer, as he is still a soldier in the Israeli Defense Force. What’s even better is that he will be playing for one of the top teams in the world outside the NBA in Maccabi Tel Aviv next season, which should surely help prepare him for the league if he continues to develop. With more teams scrapping traditional positions altogether and throwing out the most talented players they have on the floor, Eliyahu could be an intriguing face-up power forward for an up-tempo team. He has the talent, physical attributes and mentality to play in the NBA, it’s his overall polish that needs plenty of work. Luckily for him and the team that drafts him, though, time is on their side.
Panagiotis Vasilopoulos , 6-8, SF/PF, 1984, (Greece), Olympiakos
FIBAEurope.com
Jonathan Givony
The third “age eligible” 1984-born player on this list, Vasilopolous plays at the highest level of competition of anyone mentioned here so far—for Greek powerhouse and Euroleague participants Olympiakos. Vasilopolous has been through all the various national team levels over the past four years and should be a very familiar name for NBA scouts. He was on the roster, but barely played, for the Greek senior national team that won the Gold medal in last summer’s European Championships in Belgrade, and was one of the stars of the Junior Greek team that competed and won medals at the various European and World competitons. His team Olympiakos made the Top-8 stage of the Euroleague this past year where they lost to eventual Finals participants Maccabi Tel Aviv, and Vasilopolous was a key contributor on that team and averaged 20 minutes per game in 21 contests.
Beyond his high-level experience, there are a number of things to like about Vasilopolous. First would be his physical attributes, featuring good size and length for an NBA small forward, solid strength and an excellent frame. He is a good athlete with a very nice first step, and is quick off his feet with surprisingly good leaping ability.
Vasilopolous is a versatile player who does almost everything pretty well, whether it’s slashing with either hand, shooting 3’s with his feet set, passing, rebounding, blocking shots or just running the floor hard. He is a tough player who does not back down and is willing to get into a player's grill if needed, even getting a little dirty if the situation calls for it.
Being a 22 year old who gets plenty of burn for one of the top teams in Europe, he is a smart and reliable player, as you would expect, with a good feel for the game. He doesn't make many mistakes and generally plays for the team. His passing skills are particularly impressive, especially passing into the post. Vasilopolous likes to move the ball around unselfishly and regularly finds the open man with crisp passes.
Playing both forward spots in Greece and the Euroleague, he is a very solid rebounder who knows how to box out and goes hard after every ball. His hands are very good and his athleticism and instincts help him do the rest. Spotting up from the perimeter, he shows good shooting mechanics on the catch and shoot and hits his shots at an excellent clip—46% from the field and 51% from behind the arc.
In terms of weaknesses, there are questions about his NBA position, as he plays the power forward spot in Europe, but is only about 6-8. He is first and foremost not an incredible athlete, but he’s also not a bad one either. He might be missing that slight extra gear needed to create enough space to get his shot off in the NBA, and already isn’t an incredibly prolific scorer at the European level, averaging only 8 points per game. He could stand to slim down to small forward proportions for his body to truly reach its full potential as a wing.
Vasilopolous’ perimeter skills in general need to be polished. He is not a dangerous enough threat to attack matchups off the dribble, and can be a bit mechanical and predictable in his movements. As a shooter he is limited mostly to the catch and shoot, featuring a fairly slow release and not much elevation on his jump-shot.
On the other end of the floor there are questions about whether he can defend his own position in the NBA. Playing mostly power forward, he lacks real experience guarding the perimeter. He regardless does not his move feet well enough, and his lateral quickness might not be up to par.
More than anything, it sometimes appears that Vasilopolous is not 100% comfortable in his own skin. As much as he limits mistakes, he also rarely tries to do anything incredibly creative, looking like he is playing on a fairly short leash at times.
As far as NBA comparisons go, Luke Walton might be the best one. Possessing a fairly unique skill-set and plenty of high level experience, he still has upside to continue to improve. If a team drafting in the mid to late 2nd round doesn’t see anyone that they think can make their roster available, he could be an intriguing guy to draft and stash for a few seasons until his contract is up in 2008."I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
-Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05Comment
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