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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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House owner: Bush parents owe $54,000 in rent

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  • #1

    House owner: Bush parents owe $54,000 in rent

    From San Diego Union Tribune:

    Michaels claims he's due $54,000; attorney preparing $3.2 million suit

    April 28, 2006

    Reggie Bush's parents failed to pay $54,000 in rent for the year they lived in a house owned by an investor in a sports marketing agency that sought to represent Bush, the owner of the house said late last night in an interview at The San Diego Union-Tribune.

    Michael Michaels, who has been silent since questions surfaced about the Bush family's living arrangements at the Spring Valley house he owns, said the stepfather and mother of the Heisman Trophy-winning running back initially agreed to pay $4,500 per month in rent when they moved in last spring. He said when they failed to pay the first few months' rent, they said they would pay when Bush turned pro.

    But when Bush signed with a different marketing representative early this year, relations deteriorated. Michaels' attorney, Brian Watkins, sent them a letter April 3 demanding they move out of the house. Bush's parents, LaMar and Denise Griffin, finally moved out last week. Watkins showed Union-Tribune reporters a copy of the eviction notice last night.

    Watkins said he plans to sue Bush's parents, and possibly Bush, for fraud and will seek $3.2 million. That includes $300,000 in “out-of-pocket” expenses owed Michaels and another investor, Lloyd Lake, plus punitive damages.

    Watkins said $54,000 of that is the unpaid rent. He said Michaels and Lake incurred additional expenses associated with starting the marketing agency, but declined to provide details. He also would not specify the extent of Bush's involvement in the agency, New Era Sports and Entertainment.

    Bush has denied knowledge of any deal with Michaels and promised details would emerge later that would clear up the situation. He again yesterday declined to answer specific questions about whether his parents paid rent for the house.

    The NCAA is investigating whether its rules of amateurism were violated by Bush or his parents, who may have improperly received extra benefits in their living arrangements at the Michaels house.

    The NCAA has requested to interview David Caravantes, an agent contacted by New Era, in its investigation of Bush and the house next week. If the NCAA determines that Bush or his family committed a violation of its rules of amateurism, Bush could be ruled retroactively ineligible and USC could face sanctions, including the possible forfeiture of games.

    Bush's marketing representative, Mike Ornstein, hung up when contacted for his reaction to Michaels' claims last night.

    Michaels said he is a real estate investor and when the Griffins told him they were having financial problems at their previous residence, he allowed them to move into his newly purchased house in Spring Valley.

    Michaels bought the 3,002-square-foot, three-bedroom home for $757,237 in April 2005, according to San Diego County records.

    “I never agreed to let them live rent-free,” Michaels said.

    Watkins said he sent Bush's family attorney, David Cornwell, a letter Feb. 13 threatening the family with the $3.2 million fraud suit. Watkins said he has been in regular contact with Cornwell, and that the two talked as recently as yesterday. Cornwell did not return a phone message last night and the Bush family could not be reached for comment.

    “It was basically (left that) we can't come to a meeting of the minds on a number, so do what you're going to do and I'm going to do what I'm going to do, is basically what (Cornwell) said,” Watkins said. “He starts going to the press and throwing out words (like) 'extortion' and I never even wanted to go here. We were just preparing a lawsuit.”

    Yesterday, ESPN reported that Caravantes was demanding $3.2 million from the Bush family. Watkins and Caravantes adamantly said that wasn't true. Watkins said it was he who was asking for $3.2 million in the fraud suit.

    “If you want to call somebody on a lie, ask them where their canceled rent checks are, from this house that they leased from their 'friend' Michael Michaels,” said Watkins, who used the word “friend” sardonically.

    The disagreement between Michaels and Bush's family began when Bush decided to hire another agent (Joel Segal) and another marketing representative (Ornstein). Watkins said he and Michaels were upset that Ornstein told the Los Angeles Times in New York this week that Michaels was a “longtime family friend of Bush's stepfather and mother” who offered to put them up in their house while they were having financial problems. Bush, a former Helix High star, is expected to be the No. 1 pick tomorrow in the NFL draft.

    “Michael Michaels didn't even know them,” Watkins said. “Lloyd Lake and the Lake family are their friends. Lloyd Lake introduced Reggie to Michael Michaels. They don't even know Michael Michaels.”

    Michaels, who also goes by the name Michael Pettiford, said he was approached by LaMar Griffin and Lake, who is now in federal prison in Victorville, to invest in a sports marketing company they were starting. They would share ownership in the company, New Era, and Bush was to be their primary client.

    It is a violation of NCAA rules for an athlete, or his relatives or friends, to accept benefit from prospective agents “even if the agent has indicated that he or she has no interest in representing the student-athlete in the marketing of his or her athletics ability or reputation,” according to NCAA regulations. If an athlete or his family commits such a violation, he would be ruled ineligible, even if it's retroactively.

    Watkins said the idea for a sports marketing agency was conceived during the 2004 season, when USC went undefeated en route to the national championship. It was before Bush became a household name in college football and the darling of almost every sports and marketing agency in the nation.

    Watkins said Griffin sought to line up possible endorsement deals for Bush, including one from the Sycuan Band of Kumeyaay Indians.

    Michaels works for Sycuan as director of economic development. Sycuan General Counsel George Forman said last weekend he recalls Griffin making a pitch to Sycuan about joining a business venture, but that there was no interest from Sycuan. Watkins also said Sycuan was not interested.

    Sycuan spokesman Adam Day said Sycuan had nothing to do with any potential deal involving Bush or Griffin.

    The backgrounds of Michaels and Lake raised a red flag among NFL officials, who Wednesday questioned Bush about his relationship with them. Two general managers said yesterday the NFL sent a memo to each team in which Bush denied knowing about the backgrounds of Michaels and Lake. He also denied having an agreement with New Era.

    Michaels was arrested under the name Michael Pettiford in October 1999 on felony charges of making terrorist threats and discharging a firearm in a negligent manner in an incident involving current Sycuan Tribal Chairman Daniel Tucker. Charges were dropped in 2000 for lack of evidence, records show.

    Michaels' connection with Lake, a former Helix High basketball player with a history of gang and drug ties, goes back several years, FBI agent Allan Vitkosky wrote in a sworn affidavit in 2002. Lake, 32, has had a series of drug and firearm arrests, including felony convictions for false imprisonment in 1993 and possession of marijuana for sale in 1996.

    San Diego Police Street Gang Unit records reveal that Lake was a documented member of the Emerald Hills Blood/Upside Sic street gang, according to Vitkosky's affidavit
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  • #2
    Re: House owner: Bush parents owe $54,000 in rent

    Huh, guess Mike Michaels better have a contract or lease agreement signed by Reggie's parents or he's SOL. Sounds like the cash register closed early for this guy.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    • #3
      Re: House owner: Bush parents owe $54,000 in rent

      Yep. He thought he was making an investment, but was instead making a donation.

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      • #4
        Re: House owner: Bush parents owe $54,000 in rent

        Either that or it's a smooth move covering Reggie Bush's A$$ because if they were paying rent then Bush wasn't doing anything wrong. Better to say I never recieved anything then say "oh yeah they paid me"

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