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Thread: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

  1. #1
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    Default Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Without looking at the overall #s, I would have probably put Yao as my first team Center. But thats about the only beef I have..oh..maybe Elton Brand over TD for 2nd team and Arenas over VC for 3rd team.
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime

    First Team
    F Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas)
    F LeBron James (Cleveland)
    C Shaquille O'Neal (Miami)
    G Steve Nash (Phoenix)
    G Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers)

    Second Team
    F Shawn Marion (Phoenix)
    F Tim Duncan (San Antonio)
    C Ben Wallace (Detroit)
    G Chauncey Billups (Detroit)
    G Dwyane Wade (Miami)
    Third Team
    F Carmelo Anthony (Denver)
    F Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers)
    C Yao Ming (Houston)
    G Tony Parker (San Antonio)
    G Vince Carter (New Jersey)
    Toughest omissions: Pau Gasol (Memphis), Gilbert Arenas (Washington) and Jason Kidd (New Jersey)
    Voters are instructed on the All-NBA ballot to "vote for the player at the position that he plays regularly."
    This ballot would have looked different if voters were given a little more latitude.
    I wanted to name Duncan and Gasol as centers because A) Shaq and Yao both played less than 60 games because of injuries and B) Duncan and Gasol play enough in the post to justify billing them as centers.
    In that scenario, Duncan would have been my first-teamer largely because he grinded through a nagging case of plantar fasciitis to appear in 80 games and help the Spurs secure the West's No. 1 overall seed. Gasol would have been my second-team center and Shaq would shift to the third team, enabling me to move Carter to third-team forward and thus make room for Arenas.
    But there wasn't room for Gasol (eclipsed by Anthony since the All-Star break) and Arenas (his Wiz didn't quite win enough) because the league wants us picking "real" centers. Yao had the best individual season of the three, but the Rockets' disastrous season as a team relegated him to third on this scorecard behind Shaq and Big Ben.
    Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson and Paul Pierce didn't get serious third-team consideration from me because none of their teams reached the playoffs. The tougher call on the third team was trying to figure out which Net to choose: Carter or Kidd. -- Marc Stein

  2. #2

    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    All,

    For what it's worth, here's how I voted:

    First Team
    G Steve Nash, Phoenix
    G Dwyane Wade, Miami
    C Yao Ming, Houston
    F LeBron James, Cleveland
    F Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas

    Second Team
    G Chauncey Billups, Detroit
    G Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers
    C Shaquille O'Neal, Miami
    F Shawn Marion, Phoenix
    F Elton Brand, LA Clippers

    Third Team
    G Gilbert Arenas, Washington
    G Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
    C Ben Wallace, Detroit
    F Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
    F Carmelo Anthony, Denver

    MJB

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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    I have to admit Mr. Boyle, your choice of Dwayne Wade over Kobe Bryant for the first team surprises me.

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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by mboyle1313
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    All,

    For what it's worth, here's how I voted:

    First Team
    G Steve Nash, Phoenix
    G Dwyane Wade, Miami
    C Yao Ming, Houston
    F LeBron James, Cleveland
    F Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas

    Second Team
    G Chauncey Billups, Detroit
    G Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers
    C Shaquille O'Neal, Miami
    F Shawn Marion, Phoenix
    F Elton Brand, LA Clippers

    Third Team
    G Gilbert Arenas, Washington
    G Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
    C Ben Wallace, Detroit
    F Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
    F Carmelo Anthony, Denver

    MJB
    Just curious, but how could one NOT vote for placement of Kobe Bryant on the All NBA First Team?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Mordecaii/Stryder,

    Legitimate question. I suspect Mr. Bryant will make the first team, and I have no real quarrel with that.

    I simply believe Wade and Nash did more to contribute to the success of their respective teams, which is why they got my vote. From a statistical standpoint (not the sole basis for my judgments, but a place to start), Bryant averaged slightly less than 8 more points per game this season than he did last, taking 7 1/2 more shots per game. In other words, more shots = more points (he shot 45% this season, 43% last).

    You could argue that he had to take more shots because he had better support a year ago, and you might be correct. The other way to look at it is to conclude that his propensity to shoot the ball retarded the development of his teammates. I can't say I necessarily see it that way; I think you'd have to see the Lakers play on a nightly basis to draw a fair conclusion on that issue.

    In the end, I thought Bryant had a superb season and voted him second team. I just thought Wade (playing without Shaquille for a long stretch) and Nash (playing an entire season without Amare) had seasons that, on balance, were slightly better.

    MJB

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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by mboyle1313
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    Mordecaii/Stryder,

    Legitimate question. I suspect Mr. Bryant will make the first team, and I have no real quarrel with that.

    I simply believe Wade and Nash did more to contribute to the success of their respective teams, which is why they got my vote. From a statistical standpoint (not the sole basis for my judgments, but a place to start), Bryant averaged slightly less than 8 more points per game this season than he did last, taking 7 1/2 more shots per game. In other words, more shots = more points (he shot 45% this season, 43% last).

    You could argue that he had to take more shots because he had better support a year ago, and you might be correct. The other way to look at it is to conclude that his propensity to shoot the ball retarded the development of his teammates. I can't say I necessarily see it that way; I think you'd have to see the Lakers play on a nightly basis to draw a fair conclusion on that issue.

    In the end, I thought Bryant had a superb season and voted him second team. I just thought Wade (playing without Shaquille for a long stretch) and Nash (playing an entire season without Amare) had seasons that, on balance, were slightly better.

    MJB
    Cool. Thanks for the response. Keep on rocking, Mr. Boyle.

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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    While I understand where MJB is coming from on that, Kobe played the entire season without a team.

    I suppose, there's the "he doesn't pass argument, which I generally agree with, but, who exactly would he pass to? Odom is good, but he creates more than finishes, and that makes is tough to work with someone in Kobe who creates AND finishes. Being the league's top scorer and shooting his team into the playoffs, not to mention dropping 81 in a game, 60 in another and 40 and 50 as a common thing, he simply has to be first team.

    That's really saying something, because I do not like Kobe, not one iota.
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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    It's really a tough call now that Mr. Boyle has brought it up.

    Nash is playing alongside Shawn Marion - one of the most versatile players in the league, but the rest of the guys were previously little-known bench players who all had career years. So Mr. Boyle is right - Nash did it all for those guys...contributing to the success of that team.

    As for Wade VS. Kobe - this is where it gets difficult. I consider Lamar Odom maybe the second most versatile player in the league for that matter! I think he's real good - but sometimes this year he just seemed to disappear in games because of Kobe's tendency to take so many shots. Seeing as though Wade did not get to play with Shaq for half the season, he never really had a guy with Lamar's skill to work alongside of, yet he still made it work.

    But then again, Wade also had Shaq to play alongside of for the other half of the season! It's really a tough call.

    In the end though, I'd probably give the nod to Kobe. I think Wade probably had more to work with than Kobe when you add it all up.

    Thanks for sharing your ballot, Mr. Boyle. Very cool!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Down with Shaq!!! GO ZO!!! haha, never will happen, but I just like Alonzo more than I ever will Shaq.
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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by mboyle1313
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    All,

    For what it's worth, here's how I voted:

    First Team
    G Steve Nash, Phoenix
    G Dwyane Wade, Miami
    C Yao Ming, Houston
    F LeBron James, Cleveland
    F Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas

    Second Team
    G Chauncey Billups, Detroit
    G Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers
    C Shaquille O'Neal, Miami
    F Shawn Marion, Phoenix
    F Elton Brand, LA Clippers

    Third Team
    G Gilbert Arenas, Washington
    G Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
    C Ben Wallace, Detroit
    F Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
    F Carmelo Anthony, Denver

    MJB
    MB, being a diehard Laker fan, I'll obviously disagree with the Bryant/Wade decision, but I want to point out one thing to everyone else that I really respect about what you did on your ballot.

    You rewarded the guys that actually had the best years THIS year, not this year plus their reputation from the past. On the surface, leaving Tim Duncan off seems like heresy, but he didn't have a Tim Duncan kind of year. Although he had a solid year, a lot of other forwards had great years.

    Well done, I say.

    P.S. Kobe>>>>Wade

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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Honestly, I can't argue with Wade being first team, and I can't argue with Kobe being first team... Both are outstanding players, and both deserve to be recognized. I like Wade better than I do Kobe, so obviously I'd love it if he was on the first team, but I wouldn't be upset if Kobe was since he had such a great year as well.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Mordecaii,

    Do I correctly infer that you don't consider Nash worthy of first team status? If not, why not?

    MJB

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    Default Re: Marc Stein's All-NBA ballot

    Oh no, I just wasn't addressing that because I didn't mention it in my original post! I completely agree that Nash SHOULD be first team, and I personally believe that unless there is an unusual circumstance, there should be a PG and SG represented on the first team instead of two SG's or two PG's. So Nash is without question on the first team in my personal opinion, I just think it's a tough decision between Kobe and Wade.

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