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Thread: How long will this turn around take?

  1. #1
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    Default How long will this turn around take?

    There will be no poll.

    At the last party, while at Perkins, nearly everyone was in agreement that they didn't trust Bird to turn this mess around.

    So, will it be up to Walsh?

    Is Walsh bold enough to make the changes that you think should be made?

    Will Bird step up & be the man now?

    If not Walsh or Bird, how long do we wait to bring in another new guy?

    Finally the question I really want to ask.....

    Best case & worse case, how long will it take the Pacers to get back to challenging for a title?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Best case scenario: We clean house with the knuckleheads, the new guys have great attitudes and the team just strikes a chord right away, and we're in contention next year with a fresh start.

    Worst case scenario: The things we're reading about all the turmoil involving the players and the coaches is irrepairable and a tabula rasa is needed to fix this, forcing a long rebuilding period that takes anywhere from 3 to 5 years.

  3. #3
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    The other relevant question:

    How far will the the team fall?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  4. #4
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    The other relevant question:

    How far will the the team fall?
    This is as far down as we go. We've hit rock bottom.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    We need one of 2 things to happen, and perhaps both.

    One scenario is that we get a new coach ala Larry Brown who tears the team down and builds them up. It would have to be a coach who imposes his will on the team regardless of their pre-conceived notions.

    The second scenario is that we bring in a veteran player with leadership. A person of this type will hopefully create that synnergy (1+1=3) that is sorely lacking on this team. In order to get this person we will have to ship out some of the cancers on this team, which also should make us better from day one.

    How quickly we turn around depends on when the change(s) is/are made and how good each person is at their role. I'd say probably 2 seasons. One year to figure how to play with each other and another year to elevate to a playoff contender.
    “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Bring in some vets for real leadership and we would return to pretender/contender next season. I suspect Detroit will again dominate next year, but after that they have to find the money to sign Billups. The Heat's window will be closing soon I think.

    Of course the Cavs and Bulls will be pretty good by then so maybe we're destined to be a pretender only for awhile.
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by brichard
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    I'd say probably 2 seasons. One year to figure how to play with each other and another year to elevate to a playoff contender.
    Realistically, that's probably the best case scenario.

    But that also assumes that we get most of the players we need during the summer, then obtain the finishing touch or two before the trading deadline next season.

    In viewing the rebuilding that will go on, one thing that I'm beginning to fear is that Croshere will be the perfect piece next season (huge expiriing contract coupled with decent talent) to make that final trade at the trading deadline. I think many of us have really come to appreciate Croshere for the professional that he is, his perseverance, his leadership abilities and the re-emergence of his talents.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    I trust Bird.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter
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    There will be no poll.

    At the last party, while at Perkins, nearly everyone was in agreement that they didn't trust Bird to turn this mess around.


    So, will it be up to Walsh?
    No idea.


    Is Walsh bold enough to make the changes that you think should be made?

    No

    Will Bird step up & be the man now?

    No idea.... but he might as well because Walsh won't do it and we don't have a Reggie Miller type leader to pull the troops together right now. "Patience" is what has gotten us into this mess, it won't be what gets us out. Not if we want out in a hurry.


    If not Walsh or Bird, how long do we wait to bring in another new guy?

    Decade, maybe...

    Finally the question I really want to ask.....

    Best case & worse case, how long will it take the Pacers to get back to challenging for a title?
    Best case... next season...
    That would mean Larry knows what he's doing, we can't believe what he's told the media, and DW steps back and doesn't interfere and drag out the inevitable (Always preaching patience). (And even in this case, 'serious contention' would be 2-3 years out).

    Worst case...
    A long time. DW will be too patient and Bird will be timid, deferring the Walsh. Problems will fester. Walsh will stay on longer since things are in such a mess. We'll only make half-way measures. The local media will not kick the team when it's down nor will the Teflon Don get much scrutiny so there will be no burning urgency to get this team back to anything but being a potential playoff team.

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    One thing we need to remember... The Eastern conference nor the NBA will stop and wait on the Pacers. Other teams will get better and stronger around us.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    As far as I can see we will stay a subcontender for awhile and by luck we
    will make the ecf in about 3 years if Dw and Larry keep things from totally
    burning.

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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Since they are keeping Rick and trading our talented players we are in for a long road of being just good enough to make the playoffs and not get any good picks but not good enough to do any damage in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Since they are keeping Rick and trading our talented players we are in for a long road of being just good enough to make the playoffs and not get any good picks but not good enough to do any damage in the playoffs.
    Talented but stupid players.

    We saw what happens when you build around only talent - it failed badly.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    Bring in some vets for real leadership and we would return to pretender/contender next season. I suspect Detroit will again dominate next year, but after that they have to find the money to sign Billups. The Heat's window will be closing soon I think.

    Of course the Cavs and Bulls will be pretty good by then so maybe we're destined to be a pretender only for awhile.
    Agree. Leadership is the key. If you can import a couple fairly good/stable types for this role, we may be able to steady quickly and not stay in our current limbo or fall even farther. Not saying will be NBA finals material next year, but potentially better than this year's debacle.

    The void is not just present among the players either. If a leader emerges or is brought in (amongst players), that could stabilize the relationship between team and RC. On the other hand, the leadership issue may need addressing on both sides. I definitely don't feel like there's a good presence on the roster player-wise and I think you've gotta have that for things to work w/ RC b/c I don't see it as his forte.

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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    This is as far down as we go. We've hit rock bottom.
    I think that depends on what happens with the PG position.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #15

    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Fixing Jay's statement,

    I think that depends on what happens with the PG and SG positions. Our backcourt sucks, starters, backups, 3rd string. We need a total backcourt makeover.

    Larry will do it.

    I have faith.

    < have some more Kool-Aid.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    2-3 years to be a legitimate championship contender

  17. #17
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    SGs are somewhat dime-per-dozen.

    SJax needs to go away, that's for sure. But I can think of a long list of names to plug in that position.

    PG. Not so much. If Tinsley's gone, the guys I'm interested in are going to cost us a lot in a trade. And that's okay... if TPTB are committed to getting a top-caliber PG and paying the cost. I'm afraid they're going to try to leave it in the hands of an inferior PG for a year or two.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  18. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    PG. Not so much. If Tinsley's gone, the guys I'm interested in are going to cost us a lot in a trade. And that's okay... if TPTB are committed to getting a top-caliber PG and paying the cost. I'm afraid they're going to try to leave it in the hands of an inferior PG for a year or two.

    I'd be interested in who you have in mind

  19. #19
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    At PG? Problem is there aren't many to pick from and the ones I'd take will cost an arm and a leg. Or a Granger.

    I wouldn't complain about a blockbuster for:

    Nash
    Parker

    But those would be huge, multi-player trades and impossible to vision

    I could live with:

    Antonio Daniels
    Hinrich (I think he's overrated)
    Andre Miller

    I'd take a flyer on:

    Jay Williams
    Marko Jaric

    Not my kind of player, but if we really changed direction then I'd be okay with:

    Jason Terry
    Steve Francis
    Baron Davis

    But those would be team-changing, blockbuster deals so they're, again, hard to picture.

    I DO NOT want any of the following as starting PGs for next season

    Mike James
    Anthony Johnson
    Saras
    Delonte West
    Mark Jackson
    Sam Cassell (age)
    Jason Kidd (age)
    Travis Best
    Tyronne Lue
    Jamison Brewer

    There are a couple of young players that I would consider if we are entering "rebuilding mode". Such as Jarrett Jack and Chris Paul, but if we get a player like that we need to set our sights at 0.500 for next season while we rebuild around them.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  20. #20
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Utah might make Deron Williams available this summer (although I'm not sure who they'd want and we'd be willing to give up in return).

    Any interest?
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
    -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

  21. #21
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Why would they trade him?

  22. #22
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Why would they trade him?
    Don't recall the article that came out a month or so ago, but they feel he's a bad fit, apparantly.
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
    -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

  23. #23
    Member McClintic Sphere's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    After watching the collapse or relocation of our "young stars of the future": Bender, Harrington, Artest, and Tinsley, my enthusiasm for a rebuilding project is DOA.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Best case scenario: We clean house with the knuckleheads, the new guys have great attitudes and the team just strikes a chord right away, and we're in contention next year with a fresh start.

    Worst case scenario: The things we're reading about all the turmoil involving the players and the coaches is irrepairable and a tabula rasa is needed to fix this, forcing a long rebuilding period that takes anywhere from 3 to 5 years.
    Good post - I hope for the former but think the latter is more likely.

  25. #25
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: How long will this turn around take?

    I think everyone here is over-reacting pretty badly.

    We aren't going to rebuild. Some players will be dealt and we may change coaches..But you're insane if you think Walsh is going to turn into a hotshot crazy GM and trade away JO and not attempt to resign Peja or a marquee free agent SG. I think the most likely course of action this team will take is to deal Jackson and Tinsley and probably resign a free agent 2 guard this summer who is actually good. I don't think we are going to resign Peja because he's going to ask for way to much money but we should be able to get a marquee free agent instead.

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