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Thread: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

  1. #26
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Not a chance. We were slumping just as badly before JO came back.

  2. #27
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    I really like JO, but I'm getting kind of tired of him. He never, ever blocks out, and it disgusts me.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    And David Harrison is your favorite player. LOLING

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DeS
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    Bad thing is that JO got only 5 rebounds again (Crosher and Foster outrebounded him twice). Good thing is - the oponents still doubling him even if he can't hit. As for bad shooting, imo oponents are fouling him to prevent him getting into the rythm (and they succeeded today).
    As for better play without JO. Imo it looks better, because with JO the game isn't that free-flowing. Imho JO is more effective playing iso sets else team just loses some seconds when he dribbles and passes out. His low rebounding doesn't help either.
    Still JO is the threat and yet another option if other offensive options fail.
    Couldn't DISagree more. JO needs to be a fast-moving-get-to-the-rim PF, not a pound-it-into-the-floor-and-shoot-a-15-foot-fadeaway C for him to have success. While he is capable of making cool post-ups moves and what not, his body needs him to be a quick PF almost like Stoudamire, not the Tim Duncan Carlisle wants. If he would be that JO, this team would be MUCH better with him; but if he's the improperly used JO that we've seen break down from the beating of triple-teams and C's then we might as well scrap him.

    Much of why JO doesn't seem to fit sometimes is to be blamed on Rick because he's tried to make JO something he isn't. That needs changed.
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    And David Harrison is your favorite player. LOLING
    David blocks out, use your head man. JO just doesn't try.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Official "We're a better team without JO" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Before Rick got here J.O. averaged 18 rebounds per game in the playoffs. When Rick got here we all knew our defensive rebouning would go down because that is not in his game plan. Jermaine is not the problem here Rick is.
    You've got it backwards. OFFENSIVE rebounds are what are not in Rick's game plan. He's all about DEFENSIVE rebounds. We can't have the OR's because we need to get back, everytime, always, forever, amen.

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    David blocks out, use your head man. JO just doesn't try.
    Yeah Jermaine O'Neal doesnt try. Thats a good one.

    David Harrison what he have like 4 rebounds per game in 30 minutes in the summer league. The Summer league. BEAST

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    Yeah Jermaine O'Neal doesnt try. Thats a good one.

    David Harrison what he have like 4 rebounds per game in 30 minutes in the summer league. The Summer league. BEAST
    JO doesn't try to block out, and you can't deny that. He just doesn't do it.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    JO doesn't try to block out, and you can't deny that.
    Yes I can. You dont average 10 rpg 4-5 years in a row by not boxing out. Get him a PG that can defend so he doesnt have to worry about blocking everydamn shot cause they are walking into the paint, and he will get even more boards.

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy
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    Couldn't DISagree more. JO needs to be a fast-moving-get-to-the-rim PF, not a pound-it-into-the-floor-and-shoot-a-15-foot-fadeaway C for him to have success. While he is capable of making cool post-ups moves and what not, his body needs him to be a quick PF almost like Stoudamire, not the Tim Duncan Carlisle wants. If he would be that JO, this team would be MUCH better with him; but if he's the improperly used JO that we've seen break down from the beating of triple-teams and C's then we might as well scrap him.

    Much of why JO doesn't seem to fit sometimes is to be blamed on Rick because he's tried to make JO something he isn't. That needs changed.
    I agree 1 million %. JO was at his best when he just outquicked his defender and took it to the hole more. These post up, turnaround jumpers have got to stop. I also blame Rick for misusing him.

    In one of the games against the Pistons this season, JO started taking it to Sheed late in the post, and guess what? SHEED COULDN'T STOP HIM.

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    When everybody in the damn gym knows that you are getting the ball everytime your team comes down the court, you cant just use one move to get by your defender.

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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    Yes I can. You dont average 10 rpg 4-5 years in a row by not boxing out.
    Hah, this is probably exactly why he doesn't bother with it. He still gets his numbers anyway, so why bother with boxing out, right?

    OK, maybe not that. Too harsh. I don't think JO is obsessed with numbers. He just thinks what he's doing is working, when it really just gets us killed on the boards.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Official "We're a better team without JO" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    That is simply not true at all. Rick is very big on defensive rebounding. It is offensive rebounding that he sacrifices in favor of transitiopn defense.


    We are a better team with J.O.
    Sorry UB you are correct my wife came down as I was posting that and wanted to watch 24.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    I think there are too many oficial posts for every topic on theese boards.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    1. Is the team better without JO? No way, although its a fair question IMO.

    2. Is JO vastly overrated? Yes, but still a solid All-Star reserve.(Not starter level ability)

    3. Is JO healthy right now? I don't think he's even 80% to be honest. The JO I know is a 20 and 10 guy every night, not making 1 FG. Give him credit, atleast he's battling.


    This whole season has been a mess, it's easy to point the finger in a lot of directions. I hope we put a playoff run together and get some stability back, otherwise it will be a bloody off-season.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmall
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    I think there are too many oficial posts for every topic on theese boards.

    This is off topic to this thread... You need to start a new "Official-Are there too many 'official' posts here?" thread.



















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  17. #42
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Historically, the team has played some very good basketball without JO taking the court.

    More than enough to justify it NOT being a case of players picking up slack for a wounded comrade. That is hard to sustain for a complete game, much less several games.

    Without JO the team became a rebounding monster. They were keeping the opposing defense busy and off-balance. Bad shots were fewer. Passing and cutting were crisper. The sun was brighter. The beers were colder. The popcorn was fresher. The children sang in unison and 11/19 was but a distant memory.

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  18. #43
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    You had me at "cold beer".

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    You had me at "cold beer".
    True, the beers being colder might've been coincidence but some of that other stuff has merit.

    -Bball
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  20. #45

    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy
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    Couldn't DISagree more. JO needs to be a fast-moving-get-to-the-rim PF, not a pound-it-into-the-floor-and-shoot-a-15-foot-fadeaway C for him to have success. While he is capable of making cool post-ups moves and what not, his body needs him to be a quick PF almost like Stoudamire, not the Tim Duncan Carlisle wants. If he would be that JO, this team would be MUCH better with him; but if he's the improperly used JO that we've seen break down from the beating of triple-teams and C's then we might as well scrap him.
    I have no problem for JO to become that JO. But this JO in this system isn't that JO in another system. I think, for whatever (may it be the system or something else) reason JO isn't playing along with motion offense now and he is not effective within it. Imo this is why it seems that team plays better without him. Imo better use of him is when we need to change the offensive style from time to time (not to let the oponent defence adjust to one playing style). In this way JO complements the team as without him and Harrison the team is more "one-sided".
    I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    I know that some of you (Bball especially) have been beating the drum for shipping out J.O. IMHO, this is totally screwed up logic. I guess I have not heard a decent reason why everything is his fault. I just hear the same crap over and over about either his contract or "poor leadership". His contract is what it is. Big men in the NBA are expensive. Look at guys like Camby or Kenyon Martin, I know their contracts are not as heavy as J.O.'s but for what you get in exchange for their ability, it just goes to show Big men are expensive. Some of you older fans remember when that stiff Bryant "Big Country" Reeves broke the bank in Vancouver making us ante up a sizable contract for Rik Smits. It was what set the market at the time for centers and bigs, how is J.O. any different? I didn't hear moaning and groaning about his max deal when he got it, the popular opinion that I remember was locking J.O. up before he even made a trip to San Antonio, because if I remember correctly, S.A. was going to open up the checkbook and we didn't want that!

    As for the poor leader, I guess I just don't get it...I know that he is flamboyant, loves to show off, and gets on the officials way too much, but so did Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, and many other superstars of the day. Do you think anyone of the greats that I mentioned above would have fared any better with this cast of knuckle heads we got on this team, the Ron Artest drama, and the dynamics between the backcourt and the coach? Hell, we got a damn GM and CEO that can't figure this out, so how is it a players fault???

    Even if I were to entertain the notion that J.O. is the problem, what do you want in return? I know everyone says K.G., but does he really make us any better? Minn. is struggling with trying to get K.G. to just be another cog in the offense. Anyway, as discussed at the forum party...K.G. is going to also cost you a valuable player as a throw in along with J.O. if O'neal is the meat of the deal. Minnesota will probably want Granger with J.O., why wouldn't they...they are dealing from a "want" postion and not a "need" position. So, who do you want for him? Do you want to surender a big for a small, or how about a bunch of role players?

    I also see what happened to Sacramento after the Webber deal. They looked pretty good with Webber hurt and on the bench, yet as soon as he came back...their team play suffered. Someone got the bright idea to ship out Webber and they would get that team play again. IT DIDN'T WORK, DID IT? They got a bunch of ok to decent role players from Philly. Looks like the same plan a lot of you want for the Pacers. Peja couldn't carry the Kings and a bunch of role players, so why do some of you think that a re-signed Peja can carry the Pacers and a bunch of role players?
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  22. #47

    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    This situation with JO coming back is similar to when C. Webb can back for the Kings. They started to tank after his return. The fact is the players are not use to having JO on the court and it does mess with chemistry.

    Are the pacers better without JO for the long term? NO

    Are they better without him now? Maybe.

  23. #48
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    (*in a still, small voice*) I liked what I saw from JO in the second half last night - when he wasn't effective offensively he passed very well out of the post and kept the offense moving. Why would we not keep that JO?
    BillS

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  24. #49
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    After doing much thinking on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that there is something that JO must do. One move to reconnect to the Pacers past glory, show he's ready and willing to do the dirty work necessary, show he's willing to make sacrifices for the team by doing something he's refused to do in the past, show some leadership and draw the team together, even if it is only symbolic.

    He's got to shave his head.......
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    Default Re: Official "Is the team better with or without JO?" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    After doing much thinking on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that there is something that JO must do. One move to reconnect to the Pacers past glory, show he's ready and willing to do the dirty work necessary, show he's willing to make sacrifices for the team by doing something he's refused to do in the past, show some leadership and draw the team together, even if it is only symbolic.

    He's got to shave his head.......
    As crazy as that sounds...It may show that their are not individuals on this team, no one too good for team. Before, I lauged at the flack that some of you gave J.O. about not doing this, but now it sounds like it is needed more then ever.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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