Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

  1. #1
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,263

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Figured this would make the rounds here eventually..

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...604110372/1127

    Stick a fork in the Pacers

    They've quit on Carlisle, and O'Neal is not a leader

    Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

    Advertisement

    Clarence Tabb Jr./The Detroit News

    Jermaine O'Neal, who will be well paid through 2010, has All-Star talent but isn't a franchise player. go See full image


    Fake leaders and fake tough guys. Not-ready-to-win players. That's what I see with the Pacers.

    They have quit on Rick Carlisle. That seems obvious given their performances the last two weeks, especially their awful showing at The Palace on Sunday.

    Oh, they may rally and keep their hold on the seventh spot in the East. They have six games left, all against lottery teams. But that doesn't change the reality. Their window has closed. They are no longer a legitimate contender and probably never will be with the cast of characters.

    And they can stop blaming Ron Artest and the injuries. It goes deeper.

    Jermaine O'Neal, the man the Pacers will pay $82.1 million next season through 2010, is an All-Star talent. But he's not equipped to be a franchise player. He lacks something -- mental toughness, maybe -- to be a true leader.

    It was ironic after Sunday's loss he said, "There are talkers, and there are doers. All we are is a talking team."

    The Pacers take their cue from him. To me, O'Neal is one of the great talkers in history. But where is he at crunch time when the Pacers need a big play? Even when the Pacers were contenders, he seemed to get real quiet when the biggest games were on the line.

    He was at his best when he was surrounded by Artest (a true tough guy), Reggie Miller (a true franchise player) and a veteran big man like Dale Davis or Brad Miller, who could do all the dirty work for him.

    Then there is Stephen Jackson (owed $27.5 million through 2010) and Jamaal Tinsley ($33.6 million through 2011). Jackson showed his true colors Sunday when he basically said, "Don't talk to me, I am doing my job."

    Jackson is a guy who, if surrounded by strong-minded veterans, would be an asset -- like he was when he won a title with the Spurs. Without that, he's just too unstable, and he winds up chipping away at the team's chemistry.

    Same for Tinsley, who can't seem to step away from his own petulance. Pacers insiders chuckled that he came down with his latest injury (right ankle sprain) the same day Carlisle announced Anthony Johnson was replacing him in the starting lineup.

    Artest, as it turns out, was only a small part of the problem.

    What, now, will Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh do?

    The easiest thing would be to fire Carlisle, but I think Bird is smart enough to know that won't solve the problem.

    The Knicks are going to come calling about O'Neal. The best they will be able to offer are a bunch of expiring contracts. It won't be an easy sell to the people of Indiana, but it may be wise to unload O'Neal (and Jackson and Tinsley), sacrifice next season and build a sturdier foundation.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  2. #2
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,500

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    I'd like to disagree with that....


    ...but I can't.... I think I've said pretty much the same things.

    I'd hate to trade JO for expiring contracts but maybe we should be taking a longer term look at things. How would that flexibility play out?

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  3. #3
    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Haven, Connecticut
    Posts
    3,453

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Indiana classically hasn't attracted big name free agents... We have built strong teams through drafting and trades. So I don't think this city will lure a free agent, thus making expiring contracts relatively WORTHLESS... The market isn't one that lures top 10 players on their own, they come here because they are drafted here and fall in love with it, like Reggie, Chuck, Rik, Dale, Antonio, Mark, and other stars of yesteryear.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

  4. #4
    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Haven, Connecticut
    Posts
    3,453

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    In fact, Saras has been the greatest free agent we have attracted that comes to mind in recent decades... who am I missing here? Byron Scott... Tim Hardaway??? Eddie Johnson? Ricky Pierce? These are the kinds of free agents we have attracted in recent years...
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

  5. #5
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,500

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Walsh had no desire to pursue FA's so that has played a great factor in our not signing big name FA's.

    Bird might be different.

    Barkley WANTED to come here and Walsh bent over backwards to make excuses not to get him back in the day.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  6. #6
    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Haven, Connecticut
    Posts
    3,453

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    So you think they'll come? And you think they'd want to come?

    Barkley wanted to come when the team was good and his friendship with Reg was blooming. Webber similarly wanted to come when Rose was with the team and IT was coaching.

    What do we have to sell to free agents now? Or minus the likes of JO...
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

  7. #7
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,500

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So you think they'll come? And you think they'd want to come?

    Barkley wanted to come when the team was good and his friendship with Reg was blooming. Webber similarly wanted to come when Rose was with the team and IT was coaching.

    What do we have to sell to free agents now? Or minus the likes of JO...
    Indiana hospitality. A nice new stadium to watch the Colts play in a year or so. Big Red. John Mellencamp. The "world's largest Christmas tree". Boomer and Bowser.

    Barring that... maybe if we opened the checkbook to some FA like we opened it to JO and annointed them 'face of the franchise'.

    On a serious note... It would be a tougher sell now, no doubt. But the first step is to start actually trying (assuming TPTB really want to build thru free agecy at all at this point).

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  8. #8
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    7,192

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    I'm pretty eye to eye with this take, although I'd hope to get something in return for JO. However, at least I think it's fair to say that if you take those three guys and their salaries, none of their contributions the last two years are even close to justifying how much we're stuck paying them. That has to be laid at the feet of the Pacer brass.

  9. #9
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,464

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Best basketball facility in the WORLD. Larry Bird. A great city to raise a
    family. Management that treats players well. Commitment to winning. Money.

    Those are some very strong incentives to come to Indy.

    If Peja stays, and he will if the Pacers want him why do you thing someone
    like Peja would stay?

    owl
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  10. #10
    Nerd.
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Age
    33
    Posts
    5,069
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...Big Red...

    I love Big Red. Mmmm....Big Red!

  11. #11
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,852

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    I can't decide if the "insider" is Wells or Kravitz. I lean toward Wells, since I doubt Kravitz went to Detroit.....
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  12. #12
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,986

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I can't decide if the "insider" is Wells or Kravitz. I lean toward Wells, since I doubt Kravitz went to Detroit.....

    Likely is Wells, or it could be Mark Boyle or maybe even Slick

  13. #13
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,917

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    We are going to suck big time next year. Larry is going to back the wrong horse.

  14. #14

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    My enjoyment of Pacers basketball is at a 20 year low, and when I consider the reasons why, poor coaching isn't high on the list.

    I think Larry is backing the right horse here, actually. Let's hope he gets good value for half of our roster.

    And this Detroit writer... how dare he say bad stuff about us... Wait, we've been saying that stuff for weeks.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  15. #15
    2014 IKL Champion DrBadd01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States.
    Posts
    1,968

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    If Utah can attract free agents (Boozer, Okur, etc.) than we can certainly attract free agents.

  16. #16
    Banned Fool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,408

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Terrible teams are the only thing that really keep free agents away. If you've got money and a chance to win, the guys you really want to come will come.

  17. #17
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,917

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by DrBadd01
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Utah can attract free agents (Boozer, Okur, etc.) than we can certainly attract free agents.
    Uh if you think Boozer and Okur are big time free agent signings then I have nothing to add. Have fun with your all overpaid white guy starting lineup next year.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    38
    Posts
    180

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Terrible teams are the only thing that really keep free agents away. If you've got money and a chance to win, the guys you really want to come will come.
    I agree. Big name free agent's haven't had a problem coming to the Colts the last couple of years.

  19. #19
    2014 IKL Champion DrBadd01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States.
    Posts
    1,968

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    I don' think they are bigtime by any means. But I know that it was Utah that almost signed Brad Miller, Jason Terry, Corey Maggette, Elton Brand, Andre Miller and did sign Boozer and Okur. If Utah can get the interest of these players than we have a shot at anyone.

  20. #20
    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis, In. via Oakland, Ca.
    Age
    33
    Posts
    3,413

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    The real reason we haven't signed any true big named free agents is because we haven't been under the cap for I don't know how many years.

  21. #21

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Artest, as it turns out, was only a small part of the problem.

    Very,Very True. It doesn't matter if nobody else agrees, it's true.
    Life without water is tough, life without air is hard,life with one leg only is wobbly, Life without Reggie Miller, is impossible.

    Do Not Trade Austin

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Brunner
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Veteran Austin Croshere, the longest-tenured Pacers player on the roster, has proven reliable when called upon, invariably ready to step in regardless of the circumstance.

  22. #22
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    42
    Posts
    25,619

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Geez.......Not that most of it isn't true......but it sounds like this reporter from Detroit completely went out of his way to kick JONeal and the Pacers in the Nutz.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  23. #23
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    42
    Posts
    25,619

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    I think that the Pacers would have the same problem that teams like Atlanta, Chicago and Minny ( in the past ) that had when they had a huge load of cash to spend on Free Agents but couldn't really sign anyone decent ( yes....Joe Johnson is decent...but that cost them 70mil and a draft pick ).

    Just like when Artest was up for bidding....getting expiring contracts means nothing to team like the Pacers. That is why I think that is one of the reasons why the Pacers initially were interested in Maggette...his contract is locked in for another 2 seasons.

    If JONeal is traded away...then we are in rebuliding mode. Even if we had the money to spend on Free Agents......no one is going to want to come to a team that is rebuilding AND is located in Indy. Trading away a player like JONeal may work for a Big Market team like the Clippers, Orlando or NY....but it won't work for a Smaller Market team like the Pacers.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Age
    40
    Posts
    726

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Geez.......Not that most of it isn't true......but it sounds like this reporter from Detroit completely went out of his way to kick JONeal and the Pacers in the Nutz.

    Just our resident Piston fan, fanning the flames.................................again.

  25. #25
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    42
    Posts
    25,619

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: McCosky: Stick a Fork in the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by waxman
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Just our resident Piston fan, fanning the flames.................................again.
    I was referring to McCosky.....not KSTAT. Even if most of it is essentially true.......its easy to kick a "former" Conference Rival when they are down when your local team is perched so high on their high-horse.

    I give KSTAT more slack cuz he's one of us......he maybe the red-headed step-child that posts on PD all the time...but he's one of us ( as in a PD forum poster...not a Pacer fan ).

    ( KSTAT....J/K...sort of )
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •