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Thread: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

  1. #1
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    I don't normally read Bob Kravitz. I've read maybe three articles in the past year and I only read them because they were posted here. Todays article wasn't posted on here, (at least I haven't seen it) rather I found out about it from an email.

    Of course he's stiring the pot as usual, but I think he's writing what most of us are thinking.

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1088/SPORTS04

    March 31, 2006

    bob kravitz
    Here are more Pacers to retire

    Have they ever missed Reggie Miller more than they do now? Who would have thought the Indiana Pacers, once mentioned as a bona fide title contender, would so desperately need this old man, with his spindly legs and his professionalism and his huge heart?

    At this time last season, when the post-brawl madness had this franchise reeling, Miller put the Pacers on his back and willed them into the NBA playoffs. Now, with the Pacers falling to the ranks of the sub-mediocre, with Jermaine O'Neal hurt again and Jamaal Tinsley intent on playing his way out of Indianapolis, the only place to find Miller's jersey was high in the rare air of the Conseco Fieldhouse rafters.

    From Boom-Baby to Boo-Baby.

    A shame, really.

    The least these Pacers could have done on Reggie's night was honor him by playing like they still cared. Instead, they looked like what they've become over time: a bored, boring team that has become as unlikable as last year's overachievers were inspiring.

    About a half-hour before the game, Miller was asked, "What do you think of this (Pacers) team?''

    He paused. A pregnant pause. An eight-months' pregnant kind of pause. Then he smiled.

    "It's hard to figure out,'' he said delicately. "You really can't tell. Until everybody is healthy and plays a certain amount of games together . . . I mean, Jermaine (O'Neal) is hurt, Jamaal (Tinsley) has been hurt, Freddie (Jones) has been out for a while. Until they get their core group of guys together and get some practice time, which is going to be tough with the playoffs coming up, I think it remains to be seen.''

    That's when Cheryl, Reggie's sister and a former hoops legend, did some translation.

    "That's a nice way of saying they suck,'' she said loudly.
    Then she covered her mouth with her hands.

    "That's why she gets paid the big bucks,'' Reggie said.
    "My bad,'' Cheryl said.

    "I was trying to be politically correct here,'' Reggie said. Then, referring to the bombastic Charles Barkley, he turned to his sister. "C'mon, Charles.''
    At least someone was speaking the truth.

    It would have been a wonderful, beautiful night, if only they had dispensed with actually playing the game. Miller joined the Pacers' ABA greats, Roger Brown, Mel Daniels, Bobby Leonard and George McGinnis, becoming the first NBA Pacer to earn the franchise's honor. Then his old teammates went out and stunk up the joint.

    Again.

    Against a Phoenix team that had lost its two previous games by a combined 60 points.

    By early in the fourth quarter, there was an unusual sight to behold: empty seats, hundreds of them, even thousands, fans having long ago given up on this game and this team.

    Could you blame them?

    When Miller left here one season ago, this seemed like a franchise with a glimmer of a future. Granted, the hope was tenuous, left in the unsteady hands of the wrong man, the dearly departed Ron Artest. Now, with Artest gone and several players looking as if they've cashed it in, the Pacers have reached the point where unless they have a miracle renaissance these final weeks, they need to retire a couple of other jerseys.

    Start, please, with Tinsley's No. 11. He's never been healthy and he's never going to stay healthy. And even when he's fully ambulatory, his shooting and decision-making are atrocious. The next time he stops an opponent's dribble penetration, it will be the first.

    He would have been dealt long ago, except he was a base-year compensation player, meaning the Pacers would get only 50 percent value in return. That won't be an issue for Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh this summer.
    They need to retire Stephen Jackson's No. 1 jersey.

    Jackson isn't completely deserving of all the scorn he has received from Indiana fans. The fact is, he has continued to play -- a novelty on this roster -- and he has never had the chance to do the job he was brought here to do: play the two-guard and work as the Pacers' third scoring option.
    Still, he's too inconsistent, too volcanic, yapping at officials while his opponent roams unguarded.

    They need to think, hard, about retiring Jermaine O'Neal's No. 7 -- assuming they can get some value in return.

    He has played -- and not played -- his way out of untouchable status. O'Neal says all the right things, but he doesn't always follow those compelling words with deeds. He may have become the face of the franchise after Miller left, but he's a long way from being its heart.

    Optimally, it would have been nice to see how the "normal'' starting five -- Tinsley, Jackson, Jeff Foster, Peja Stojakovic and O'Neal -- could have operated together. Now, with only 11 regular-season games left and very few chances to practice, it looks like Bird and Walsh will never really have a complete picture. You get the sense, though, the brain trust has seen quite enough.

    What was Cheryl Miller saying?

    Uncle Reggie isn't coming back to save the day. Not anymore.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    This may be the first time I have to say I completely agree with Kravitz.

    Now I know things are getting really bad.

  3. #3
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    I gave up criticizing the guy long ago. I find myself agreeing with him all too often to say he's wrong.

    Besides, the last columnist I can remember liking was Bob Collins and I don't wanna remember how long ago that was.



    BK makes excellent points.
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  4. #4
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Leave it to Krappitz to take what is supposed to be a positive event and turn it into another hate-filled rant.

    You don't like Indiana, Bob. We get it. If you hate our teams so much, then by all means, PLEASE LEAVE. I'll be glad to retire your number.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Shade,

    With all due respect, calling today's Kravitz column a "hate filled rant" is a bit over the top.

    The points in the column could certainly be debated, but none of them are exactly novel, and I would wager that all of them have been made on this board at one time or another. While you may feel that writing anything other than a glowing tribute to Reggie is out of line given the feel good nature of the night, I think it's unfair to label today's column in such a perjorative manner.

    MJB

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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by mboyle1313
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    Shade,

    With all due respect, calling today's Kravitz column a "hate filled rant" is a bit over the top.

    The points in the column could certainly be debated, but none of them are exactly novel, and I would wager that all of them have been made on this board at one time or another. While you may feel that writing anything other than a glowing tribute to Reggie is out of line given the feel good nature of the night, I think it's unfair to label today's column in such a perjorative manner.

    MJB
    Yes. I agree that it wasn't hate-filled. I read nothing hateful in it. The only thing that might have been differently would have been to save the last part for a separate column a day or two later. He could still have tied in the "retiring the numbers" theme.

    I happen to agree that all three of those players should be moved, but deciding that will be the easy part. Finding another team who wants them, and is willing to give something valuable for them will be the hard part.

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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by mboyle1313
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    MJB
    Oops, MJB, I forgot to mention that I thought you did a nice job last night.

  8. #8
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    He may have become the face of the franchise after Miller left, but he's a long way from being its heart.

    That line speaks volumes... I may have to use it myself. It's perfect.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Did anybody else read the article and think that Bob's been lurking again? Sure sounded like a lot of what I've read on here lately.

  10. #10
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by grace
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    Did anybody else read the article and think that Bob's been lurking again? Sure sounded like a lot of what I've read on here lately.
    I think he just paid an intern to write it for him. The intern said, "Well, I don't know what to write", and told him to just go read the internet.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    I think he just paid an intern to write it for him. The intern said, "Well, I don't know what to write", and told him to just go read the internet.
    He could have gotten much better internet related advice from this thread, too bad:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=20252

  12. #12
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    I used to think it was odd reading columnist whose thoughts sounded like they came from PD until I spoke to my dad. He doesn't read the forum and I swear he could be Bball based on his opinions. Maybe there aren't that many novel ideas.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Wow, I actually agree with Krapitz on this one. I generally don't like his writing because he does it just to get attention, and to be difficult - whether it's what he said last week or not. This, however, makes a whole lot of sense and I can't help but agree.
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    I disagree more often with Kravitz' opinions than I will ever agree.

    However, I thought this column was spot on. He nailed it.

    I especially liked his inclusion of Reggie and Cheryl's opinons and how they were brought into the "story".

    And as far as Kravitz ruining what should have been a great night, I think you need to separate the night into two distinct entertainment events. The halftime was exceptional, even though it didn't have the emotion that all of us felt the night of Reggie's last game.

    As for the other event, I personally believe that the performance and lack of focus by a few of our team's players ruined the evening for me far more than Kravitz' words ever could.

  16. #16
    Member larry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    If you took Bob & made him put on Conrad Brunner's rose colored shades, we would have a damn good writer.
    Boom baby!! Larry got 'em down there in the left corner!
    1 - 2, Tinsley's coming for you.
    3 - 4, You're not a team no more.
    5 - 6, He's gonna plead the 5th.
    7 - 8, He's gonna stay out late.




  17. #17
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by mboyle1313
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    Shade,

    With all due respect, calling today's Kravitz column a "hate filled rant" is a bit over the top.

    The points in the column could certainly be debated, but none of them are exactly novel, and I would wager that all of them have been made on this board at one time or another. While you may feel that writing anything other than a glowing tribute to Reggie is out of line given the feel good nature of the night, I think it's unfair to label today's column in such a perjorative manner.

    MJB
    I agree 100%.

  18. #18
    Offical Thread Killer TheSauceMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    I'm not a fan of Mr. Kravitz , but he hit the nail on the head with this article. I find myself in too much agreement with what he said actually , this was supposed to be the year we proved we didn't need Reggie Miller. This was supposed to be the year J.O and Tins stepped up to the plate. I actually enjoyed watching last years Pacers more than this year , infact I find it hard to watch this years team with any amount of joy.

    I see so much wrong with this team but where do you begin to repair the wounds

  19. #19
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSauceMaster
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    I'm not a fan of Mr. Kravitz , but he hit the nail on the head with this article. I find myself in too much agreement with what he said actually , this was supposed to be the year we proved we didn't need Reggie Miller. This was supposed to be the year J.O and Tins stepped up to the plate. I actually enjoyed watching last years Pacers more than this year , infact I find it hard to watch this years team with any amount of joy.

    I see so much wrong with this team but where do you begin to repair the wounds
    Yup! Aggreed! I too find myself aggreeing with Bob Kravitz more then I would like too. I don't think he was overtly negative either this time, I think he was quite close to beying spot on. Offcourse, what do we as fans know we see only what we are allowed to see and have no idea what's going on behind the scenes.

    Maybe the team is really close and they like each other all a lot, but something else is not working how they would like too. I have a hardtime believing that scenario, but the truth is we simply don't know.

    What we DO know is that this team is not performing and functioning ON the court as it is supposed to do.

    Sure, that under-performing might have something to do with not having time to take a good practice for everybody and get better aquinted with each other (and particular with and for the players that have returned from injury) in the system we are now playing, but I would also think that after years together for most of these guys and time enough to study the change of the system (while beying in the first row with street clothing) it wouldn't be THAT big of a problem like we are seeying. Apparently it is though.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by grace
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    Did anybody else read the article and think that Bob's been lurking again? Sure sounded like a lot of what I've read on here lately.
    First thought that came to my mind as well.............

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    I think he just paid an intern to write it for him. The intern said, "Well, I don't know what to write", and told him to just go read the internet.
    Those of us who stayed late at Perkins now know this is true. Yes, the guy in the corner with his computer looked too old to be an intern, but when next article is a rehash of what was said at the forum party we'll have proof.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Bob Kravitz} Here are more Pacers to retire

    I disagree with the article, we have not been healthy and have no idea what this team is capable of. Yes, they have looked bad but we still have 11 games to go. Many of these players have to much pride to be a part of a losing team. I say lets see what happens these last 11 games and the playoffs and reserve judgement for summer time reading.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

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