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Thread: What would you do? (Granger Related)

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    Default What would you do? (Granger Related)

    "I think this guy has a great future in this league. He's going to be more of a 4 that can step out and hit the jumper" - TNT Broadcast team.

    I never thought about it like that before, but given how this season has gone, would it be too risky to allow Granger to be our starting 4 next season? I actually like the idea. I mean, I think he's already a better rebounder than J.O., a better 1 on 1 defender, and not a half bad shot blocker.

    This would allow us to put JO, Tinsley, and or Jackson on the trade block to improve our back court.

    I think this would be a great direction to go in, not to mention we could keep Peja and play him at his natural position [assuming he wants to stay]. If Bird is really wanting a Euro-ball style, I think this may be the way to go.

    [NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]

    What are your thoughts?

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    I am a huge Jamaal Tinsley fan as everyone knows. Right now I want them to trade everyone but Jeff, Danny and maybe well no one that is just keep Jeff and Danny.

    I think the last two years have ruined the chemistry or what little there was. Jeff does not seem to have been affected and Danny was not here last year. Everyone else seems to have been to some extent or another.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    No, I think Danny's a natural 3. He can play the 4 if he needs to, but his best spot is the 3. Kinda like JO is natural 4, but can play the 5. If you really want to have Danny start, you'll have to trade Peja.

    Sign-and-trading Peja this offseason could net a backup 3 and help at another position.

    Personally, I'm all for getting a whole new starting backcourt.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    No, I think Danny's a natural 3. He can play the 4 if he needs to, but his best spot is the 3. Kinda like JO is natural 4, but can play the 5. If you really want to have Danny start, you'll have to trade Peja.

    Sign-and-trading Peja this offseason could net a backup 3 and help at another position.

    Personally, I'm all for getting a whole new starting backcourt.
    I agree 100%

    Whether or not JO, Tins, and SJax should be traded has nothing to do with this. The only thing that matter in this discussion is that Granger is a 3, not a 4. Sure, he has the ability to fill in there occasionaly, but, to start? He's a great player, and I'm extremely excited to watch him develope; so let's not try to force him out of his position and turn him into a player he isn't (like JO playing the 5 spot -- it's not good). Danny belongs at the SF, which causes a problem because so does Peja. There are two starting players in one position, but I REALLY don't like the idea of changing Danny's position.
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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy
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    [NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]
    What are your thoughts?
    I think that SJax would be pleased as pie to be made the 6th man in favor of starting a rookie/sophmore player.
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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    DG is going to be really good, but the coaches were furious at him tonight for his many mental defensive lapses. He did not get back about 4 times and gave up layups/dunks, and within the halfcourt team defense he was overcommiting to help on Nash and leaving his man open. Rick was really frustrated and had to talk with DG several times as did K.O.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    The whole team stunk on D tonight, so, that doesn't count for much. Granger, OVERALL (UB, that's the whole season) has been impressive and I can't wait to watch him develop as a Pacer.
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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy
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    The whole team stunk on D tonight, so, that doesn't count for much. Granger, OVERALL (UB, that's the whole season) has been impressive and I can't wait to watch him develop as a Pacer.


    I don't disagree with you, but I thought I would add a little insight into what I saw, stuff that would not have been on TV.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by JBones19
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    Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.
    Funny! That was exactly what I was thinking and what I am afraid of too.
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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by JBones19
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    Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.
    I thought I'd leave it to someone else to bring out that little tidbit...

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy
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    "I think this guy has a great future in this league. He's going to be more of a 4 that can step out and hit the jumper" - TNT Broadcast team.

    I never thought about it like that before, but given how this season has gone, would it be too risky to allow Granger to be our starting 4 next season? I actually like the idea. I mean, I think he's already a better rebounder than J.O., a better 1 on 1 defender, and not a half bad shot blocker.

    This would allow us to put JO, Tinsley, and or Jackson on the trade block to improve our back court.

    I think this would be a great direction to go in, not to mention we could keep Peja and play him at his natural position [assuming he wants to stay]. If Bird is really wanting a Euro-ball style, I think this may be the way to go.

    [NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]

    What are your thoughts?

    JO, Tinsley and Jackson gone? Sign me up... We can worry about whether your idea of using Granger at the PF spot has any merit later.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy
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    "I think this guy has a great future in this league. He's going to be more of a 4 that can step out and hit the jumper" - TNT Broadcast team.
    Actually you've got this wrong. He said Granger was a "3", who could step up when needed and defend the jump shooting "4's" of the league.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Keep Granger. Keep Foster.

    Move anybody else that gets us speed and more consistent outside shooting in the backcourt. We desperately need, IMO, a starting calibur PG and a versatile, consistent 2 (read: shooter/slasher). We just don't get enough scoring out of our Gs.

    Maybe a solid backup interior rebounder defender to play 5 and/or 4.

    Where is OWL? OWL has hit one thing on the head-more speed/athleticism please!!

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ev_eezy
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    [NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]

    What are your thoughts?
    In theory sounds great. Could back up two positions 2/3.

    In practice, would he be able to handle the "demotion"? Plus, what about his PR problem with the wrath of the fans? Can both sides reconcile? Could be a lot to ask.

    Questions that jumps to mind: Would Jack fit in better (w/ less volatility/tension) with different teammates? A different system? A different coach?

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Danny is a very good allround player, yes he is used to play the 3, but its wrong to say that he fits in best there.. basketball doesnt work that way. You are young, 6´8" and your style is allround = SG-SF-PF. He can play all 3 positions with equal success because of his allround skills, sorry to say.

    Its only up to the coach what he wants. But he MUST have Peja & Granger in there, he must find a way... If only SJAX could be a backup instead? (he is NOT better than Granger).

    Moving Danny to 4 is just impossible because of JO? But a very good idea if only Sarunas was a starter and they learned to play that way, they would be almost exactly like Phoenix (a la European basketball) offensively, 1 great leader/playmaker, everybody else can shoot & pass, much ball movement, much movement overall, pick & rolls.

    But still it WONT happen, because this is NBA, not Europe. In Europe the Coach setups his team to WIN after teamplay, no matter what, they dont care if they have players like JO / SJAX that MUST have their minutes and starting spot all the time and give them ISO plays. That is very good, but its NOT consistant and will not guarantee you a win everyday.

    Like many of my coaches said to me, Basketball is the most succesfull when you are playing the way its meant to be played! With other words = NO SUPERSTARS = NO ISOs = NO BALLHOGING.. Something like this:

    PG = A point guard that always gets the ball and runs the offense always thru his hands and thinks Pass first, who drives to the basket JUST to open up his teammates.
    (1.SARUNAS, 2.TINSLEY)

    SG = Literally a "Shooting" Guard who have a very good allround game, can pass, usually the highest scorer in the team and he is usually PGs highest priority on offense because of his high shooting accuracy.
    (1.DANNY 2. SJAX - good backup only)

    SF = A taller "SG", That can rebound and is a very good spot up shooter, if its a very good shooter / player then it will not be a Conflict between him and the SG.
    (1. PEJA 2. GRANGER - extremly good backup if the Coach chooses not to go with him at SG)

    PF = Literally a "POWER" Forward, He is big, Tall, leaves the shooting part to the rest of his teammates, a HUSTLER, a BEAST, a WARRIOR, that goes efter EVERY loose ball and sacrifices his body non-stop.
    (1. JO (if he would stop the 1on1 shake-n-bake "hey look at me! im a 7 foot tall PointGuard!" and long distance shooting). 2. JEFF FOSTER)

    C = Exactly like PF but less athleticism and more strength and Tallness, a big guy that is there just for ONE purpose. To do the things the shorter guys cant do... get up hiigh up under the basket fastest and geting exploited in different ways. (1. DAVID HARRISON)

    As you can see? We have what it takes to be a succesfull team, Larry Bird has seen it... the question is? Can RICK see it?

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by JBones19
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    Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.

    Sounds great typed out, but need I remind you that gaining weight didn't really work for JO or Bender. Both became far more injury prone after gaining the weight their frames couldn't handle. Bender had more to do with is bad knees, but O'Neal has everything to do with his weight gain.

    Not a good idea IMHO.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    I think he was being sarcastic. Look how well the extra weight has helped
    JO. It hasn't.


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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    This team is sorely lacking in speed and mobility and in the ability to shoot.
    This team is a poor shooting team. Peja is the Pacers only shooter of note.
    Granger could turn into one. But the guards are lacking in so many ways.
    I am also of the belief that having your PF as your number one option
    is a disaster. When was the last team to win a title with a dominant
    pf as your number one option? Elvin Hayes????? And was he even the
    number one option on those Bullet teams????
    Bottom line is that the makeup of this team has to change.


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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by owl
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    This team is sorely lacking in speed and mobility and in the ability to shoot.
    This team is a poor shooting team. Peja is the Pacers only shooter of note.
    Granger could turn into one. But the guards are lacking in so many ways.
    I am also of the belief that having your PF as your number one option
    is a disaster. When was the last team to win a title with a dominant
    pf as your number one option? Elvin Hayes????? And was he even the
    number one option on those Bullet teams????
    Bottom line is that the makeup of this team has to change.


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    Tim Duncan. Some will say that he is a center, well then if he is then so is J.O.

    I've been saying for about 6 years now that the Pacers need a dominant offensive player at one of the guard positions.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I've been saying for about 6 years now that the Pacers need a dominant offensive player at one of the guard positions.
    This is an absolute must. And I agree that Tinsley, Jackson AND O'Neal must go.

    I've been on the fence about Jermaine. But Kravitz article this morning reminded me of things that I've actually said. He's an imposter, he is NOT a leader. And with him still on the team and actually anointed as the leader, he will always try to be the leader, regardless of who else is acquired to fill that role.

    Jackson? You guys want a PG that can point? I want a freakin' SG that can actually shoot consistently.

    Tinsley? He's not even worth my time to give all the reasons.

    Probably reserved for a thread of my own will be an apology to Saras' fans. I'll never admit that he could be a savior if only given an opportunity to play. But, whether he is a leader or not I won't get into. What he is is passionate. And right now, this team needs every player with a beating heart that it can muster.

    PASSION. I think that one word sums up what this team is not. We have Danny, Foster, Saras and Peja. They are passionate. Freddy, AJ and Harrison are also passionate, although they can sometimes misdirect that passion, especially David.

    One player that I'd like to see the Pacers acquire would be Al Harrington. Never thought I'd say that. But after playing Atlanta, I've come to realzie something. We miss his passion and how he was capable of firing up every other player on the floor to give a better effort. Al could help bring leadership back to this team.

    Getting back to Buck's comments.

    We have to have a dominant guard. More importantly, I think we have to have a dominant POINT GUARD. I know you're never supposed to trade a dominant big for a guard. But right now, I'd trade Jermaine to get my hands on a truly dominant PG... one with handles that can defend, pass and hit an open shot.

    If we can somehow get this done, I'd then start Harrison/Foster at C, Al at PF, Danny at SF, Peja at SG and the new PG.

    That is a passionate lineup. You would have Al who could swing to SF and Danny who could swing to PF or SG. Peja could obviously play SF as well. Four good defenders in the lineup could help cover any problems that Peja (or Danny) encounters defending at SG. You would also have 4 players capable of shooting anywhere on the floor.

  22. #22

    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    I think that having Granger add a bunch of muscle would be a mistake. If muscle made the ball player then Jake Voskhul would be an all-star center. I would much rather have a player with fast-twitch reactions (young Dale Davis, Big Ben) than some beefed up (slower) muscle bound player.

    I'm no NBA caliber player, but I know from my own experience in the weight room that big muscles don't always translate well to the court.

    Danny is great the way he is; sleek, strong and smart. I look forward to him improving in the coming years. Maybe he can be our next Reggie.
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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Granger better not add a bunch of muscle, yes he needs to get stronger, but bodies are made to carry a certain amount of weight and his will always be a little slight.

    I have no problem trading J.O. But I want quality back. Don't trade him for a package of two or three role players - that won't help the team any. if you don't believe me watch the Bulls. They play so hgard, are so well coached, they have players who play the right way, but they are talent poor. You still need talent.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    This is an absolute must. And I agree that Tinsley, Jackson AND O'Neal must go.


    PASSION. I think that one word sums up what this team is not. We have Danny, Foster, Saras and Peja. They are passionate. Freddy, AJ and Harrison are also passionate, although they can sometimes misdirect that passion, especially David.
    Agree. Passion and ENERGY are what the Pacers are missing right now. I can't think of any NBA championship caliber team that did not play with energy, especially on defense.

    For all the ugliness that the Pacers are showing on offense, it is pitiful defense that is causing them to lose games. How many times did the Suns hit WIDE OPEN shots last night? The Pacers looked like a seventh-grade team playing help defense and leaving shooters open on the perimeter. They need to start physically dominating their opponents defensively, the way they did two seasons ago.

    IMO, Jackson and Tinsley are not playing with defensive energy. When JO is on the floor I haven't really seen it from him either. The Pacers scored enough to win the game last night. They just didn't lock Phoenix down, which is what they have to start doing if they want to be competitive.

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    Default Re: What would you do? (Granger Related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I've been saying for about 6 years now that the Pacers need a dominant offensive player at one of the guard positions.

    That Miller kid worked pretty well for a lot of years. Even with Reggie's
    limitations it is amazing how he carried the franchise for 18 years.
    Trading JO is going to be very difficult and in a trade I suppose you
    could get a young player and a draft pick and someone for cap filler.
    How about JO to LA? I would want a high draft pick out of any trade for JO.
    This summer should be very interesting. I would love to get Tyrus Thomas
    out of a trade. I am not sold on Harrison. I would prefer someone else
    long term there also. I want mentally strong players with some talent.



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