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Thread: I will be the resident Jax fan.

  1. #1
    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default I will be the resident Jax fan.

    I decided to switch up my avatar the other day, and while looking through the PD default avatar options, it occurred to me that I can't think of a single poster who uses the Stephen Jackson avatar.

    So, I'm putting myself out there. It may be a lonely stance, but I will come out and say that Jax is easily the most underrated player on this team.

    I understand why many of you aren't fond of his style. He plays a lot of ISOs and is known to take long-range jumpers early in the shot clock.

    These are legitimate beefs (though IMO are at least partially a result of coaching).

    However, let's look at a few Stephen Jackson facts:
    ------------------------------------------------

    - He's the only player on the team to have started every game this season. He has also EASILY played more total minutes than any other player on the team. He's probably the most durable and dependable player on the team in terms of health, competitiveness and willingness to play through pain.

    - He only averages 15.8 points per game (on 41 percent shooting, admittedly) but leads the team in overall scoring this season with 882 so far.

    - He averages more assists per game than any non-point guard on the team (2.7 APG).

    -
    He's the only player on the team to have ever started (or even played on) a championship team, and was a solid contributor at that. By all accounts he is a great locker room presence and has been described by at least one fellow player as the "soul" of the team.


    ---------------------------------------------------------

    OK, so the stats aren't stunning. But you're talking about a guy who, by design, was brought in to be the third or even fourth scoring option on the team, and has been thrust into the number 1 spot ("1A" now with Peja on board).

    He's arguably one of the team's best defenders (probably the best at the wing positions), is one of the few players who can create his own shot, and can play ISO in the post pretty effectively (though admittedly he does it wayyyy too often).

    The guy definitely has some shortcomings - shooting early in the shot clock, playing too much ISO, doesn't pass as much as I'd like (though look at the assist stat), and tends to complain too much about calls.

    The thing that bugs me however is that many people seem to have a PERSONAL problem with Jax, which is puzzling. The vast majority of the board seems to want him off the team for one reason or another.

    If this goes back to the brawl, I guess I understand that, but no one ever puts it in those terms so I can't assume that's true.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    So, what's the deal, really?

    My personal opinion on Jax:

    - As a third scoring option (with JO and Peja this is likely) I think Jax will be great. When he gets his shots from off-the-ball movement I think he's pretty effective.

    - When JO comes back, and with Harrison getting significant minutes, I don't think Jax will be asked to play nearly as much ISO-post offense assuming we keep a movement-based offense. If we run about half of the current post plays for Jax as we do now I'd be comfortable with that.

    - With his long reach I still think Jax is a unique defender at the wing positions and I think he is very effective for us in this area.

    - In short, if we traded Steve it wouldn't be the end of the world (assuming we get good value back) but I also don't think he deserves anywhere near the level of animosity he gets on this forum (at least when it starts to sound personal, I just don't get that).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    I don't believe anyone here is a hater on SJAX.

    It's mentioned many times he is a streaky shooter. Not really, because streaky shooters can have bad games, but Stephen seems to have bad stretches every game. It's the wide open jumpers that just clang off the rim and then driving to hole missing layup after layup. I know he tries, but really what irritates me is you know it's coming.....What's coming???? Even when our guys are playing good, or a certain Pacer is hot, you just know since SJAX hasn't shot it for awhile he'll pull up and fire away because he hasn't had his turn.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  3. #3
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan
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    I decided to switch up my avatar the other day, and while looking through the PD default avatar options, it occurred to me that I can't think of a single poster who uses the Stephen Jackson avatar.

    So, I'm putting myself out there. It may be a lonely stance, but I will come out and say that Jax is easily the most underrated player on this team.

    I understand why many of you aren't fond of his style. He plays a lot of ISOs and is known to take long-range jumpers early in the shot clock.

    These are legitimate beefs (though IMO are at least partially a result of coaching).

    However, let's look at a few Stephen Jackson facts:
    ------------------------------------------------

    - He's the only player on the team to have started every game this season. He has also EASILY played more total minutes than any other player on the team. He's probably the most durable and dependable player on the team in terms of health, competitiveness and willingness to play through pain.

    - He only averages 15.8 points per game (on 41 percent shooting, admittedly) but leads the team in overall scoring this season with 882 so far.

    - He averages more assists per game than any non-point guard on the team (2.7 APG).

    - He's the only player on the team to have ever started (or even played on) a championship team, and was a solid contributor at that. By all accounts he is a great locker room presence and has been described by at least one fellow player as the "soul" of the team.


    ---------------------------------------------------------

    OK, so the stats aren't stunning. But you're talking about a guy who, by design, was brought in to be the third or even fourth scoring option on the team, and has been thrust into the number 1 spot ("1A" now with Peja on board).

    He's arguably one of the team's best defenders (probably the best at the wing positions), is one of the few players who can create his own shot, and can play ISO in the post pretty effectively (though admittedly he does it wayyyy too often).

    The guy definitely has some shortcomings - shooting early in the shot clock, playing too much ISO, doesn't pass as much as I'd like (though look at the assist stat), and tends to complain too much about calls.

    The thing that bugs me however is that many people seem to have a PERSONAL problem with Jax, which is puzzling. The vast majority of the board seems to want him off the team for one reason or another.

    If this goes back to the brawl, I guess I understand that, but no one ever puts it in those terms so I can't assume that's true.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    So, what's the deal, really?

    My personal opinion on Jax:

    - As a third scoring option (with JO and Peja this is likely) I think Jax will be great. When he gets his shots from off-the-ball movement I think he's pretty effective.

    - When JO comes back, and with Harrison getting significant minutes, I don't think Jax will be asked to play nearly as much ISO-post offense assuming we keep a movement-based offense. If we run about half of the current post plays for Jax as we do now I'd be comfortable with that.

    - With his long reach I still think Jax is a unique defender at the wing positions and I think he is very effective for us in this area.

    - In short, if we traded Steve it wouldn't be the end of the world (assuming we get good value back) but I also don't think he deserves anywhere near the level of animosity he gets on this forum (at least when it starts to sound personal, I just don't get that).

    Thoughts?
    Great post rabidpacersfan,

    You are right about his defence.

    You are right about his minutes and durability.

    May be you are right about locker room presence.

    However, everything else - points and assists are just a result of minutes. His shooting is awful. He has like half of his games with 5-16. His shooting percentage is lower than team FG%.

    But probably thats what coach tells him to do. Go play iso, go shoot when you feel like it. He should take 60% of shots he is taking now, score 12 points with higher percentage. Hopefully that will happen when JO and Tins returns.

    On the second thought, that will not happen. I just looked at his stats and guess what? He is on his average shooting. (You probably are well aware of that). So he is just a player with bad shot selection, he forces things. Thats why so many people, including myself don't like him.

  4. #4
    Member tinsley#11's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan
    I can't think of a single poster who uses the Stephen Jackson avatar.
    I believe Destined4Greatness uses a Jax avatar, but nonetheless you are correct not many people use Jax.
    I was ready for Josh Smith to go to Indiana, but he went to the NBA. I am ready for him to come to Indiana once again.

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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan
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    My personal opinion on Jax:

    - As a third scoring option (with JO and Peja this is likely) I think Jax will be great. When he gets his shots from off-the-ball movement I think he's pretty effective.

    - When JO comes back, and with Harrison getting significant minutes, I don't think Jax will be asked to play nearly as much ISO-post offense assuming we keep a movement-based offense. If we run about half of the current post plays for Jax as we do now I'd be comfortable with that.

    - With his long reach I still think Jax is a unique defender at the wing positions and I think he is very effective for us in this area.

    - In short, if we traded Steve it wouldn't be the end of the world (assuming we get good value back) but I also don't think he deserves anywhere near the level of animosity he gets on this forum (at least when it starts to sound personal, I just don't get that).

    Thoughts?
    Ok, since you asked...

    #1, I'd make him the #4 scoring option behind JO, Tinsley and Peja. I don't want Tinsley taking jumpers but Tinsley's ability to penetrate should probably be higher on the list than most people consider it.

    #2 - I agree that his wing ISOs (which are certainly part of our gameplan right now) will go down. But I'm concerned that he'll make up for it by taking more "its my turn" long jumpers or that he'll keep trying to put the ball on the court and start fast breaks for our opponents.

    #3 - I agree. I don't have any problems with his defense except the plays where he never makes it down the court because he's talking to the officials. Assuming he makes it down the court, he can be relied on defensively.

    #4 - I agree. I won't miss him when he's gone but that's because I'm not a fan of his game. Nothing personal. He's just not what I'd want from a starting SG.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    I don't hate him. I actually like him as a player. I just don't like some of the shots he takes, although I have a beef with most people who take bad shots.


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    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Let's get his assists per game with Peja on the team. I'm willing to bet hes 5+. He's averaged 6 assists per in the past 4-5 games.

    But there is one thing I don't like about him and that is his horrendous shooting percentages. When JO and Tinsley return, they should be able to take a bulk of the offense away from him and get him much easier shots then he's been having to take as of late.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Rabidpacersfan,

    I think your analysis is accurate, as well as your assessment that he is generally underappreciated. IMO especially when credit for our recent improved play is concerned. That said, he will have to show he can handle adjusting to a modified role when all the missing pieces are back in place.

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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    I'm gonna do the same. I appreciate all the positives he gives us.

  10. #10
    18to88
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    I had him as mine for the longest time but whatever.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Lets not mention he was brought in here heralded as "Reggie's replacement" not in impact, but in position. I distinctly remember when Bird said that Reggie's replacement was not currently on the roster, before we traded for SJax. Anytime you try to replace a legend, unless he successfully outperforms the legend considerably, will be ridiculed. I see a lot of that here on this board. SJax doesn't do the things Reggie does, nor will he ever, only Rip comes close to that of the players in the NBA right now. So our 2 guard is doomed to unfair comparisons and resent from the fans.

    On that note, the only man to successfully replace a legend in my mind is Steve Young, other than that I see a bunch of shattered reputations.

    But I agree SJax is a great compliment to our team and is underappreciated by most.

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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    You are not the only Jack fan. I am a big Jack fan and my mom likes him too. She can't believe it when I tell her about all of the Jack trashing on this board. I inherited a love for hustle and toughness in guards (or any position in general) from my mom. Jack hustles, he tries. He plays every game; he plays every game tough. It is very hard to bring him down. If you don't like him for his stats, you can at least give him credit for giving the game his all.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by 18to88
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    I had him as mine for the longest time but whatever.
    I was visualizing you avatar in my mind, but couldn't come up with you off the top of my head, 18to88. Sorry! You did not go unnoticed. A veritable Jack pioneer! Kudos to you.

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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    I don't believe anyone here is a hater on SJAX.
    I am sorry but I am hater of SJax and would be happy if he got traded. I am not one to pile on a player when he has a few bad games, I hate players who are self-centered and do not play team basketball. In my Pacer fan career(from 1990) there are only three players that I really did not like. They are (in descending order of my dislike)

    1 - Jalen Rose or Stephen Jackson
    2 - Al Harrington


    Since Al and J Rose are gone (good riddance) lets talk about SJax -

    SJax would be good if he was a third or fourth option on any team, not when he has it in his head that he is a primary offensive weapon on this team. He flourished in a bad team in Atlanta where he had the green light and was in a contract year. He has no concept of team basketball. He really has a set shot for a shooting guard, constantly whines to the refs, talks back to the coaching staff and launches shots outside of the offensive game plan when his dick itches. His concentration level is less and he is not disciplined which is reflected by him picking up the uncessary technical. Don't even get me started on the brawl, If I were Stern I would easily have suspended SJax for the season and Artest for 30-40 games.

    I will save some more for the later part of this thread .........

  15. #15
    Gold Stagger Hoop's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    I've liked JAX since he first got here and I still do. He has some flaws, like most players, but the positives out way the negatives IMO.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  16. #16
    18to88
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE
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    I was visualizing you avatar in my mind, but couldn't come up with you off the top of my head, 18to88. Sorry! You did not go unnoticed. A veritable Jack pioneer! Kudos to you.
    Haha it was a picture of him with a black background wearing a black shirt and black head band, it was from a basketball magazine but I can't find it.

    EDIT: Found it


  17. #17
    18to88
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Anyway how are you going to be a Jack (not Jax, guys) fan when you didn't even vote that you wanted him to retire a Pacer?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    His shooting percentages tell everything to me... Having in mind that he isn't a great shooter he should take far less shots...

  19. #19

    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    The brawl started my dislike for him. I don't want to get too negative here, because after last night's game I could really go off, but regardless I see him as an emotional player who doesn't play very smart out on the court.
    Dallas Clark>Tony Gonzalez

  20. #20
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    Default Re: I will be the resident Jax fan.

    Although its easy to blame SJax all the time.......I don't think that the loss was attributed to him....the entire team....mostly AJ....couldn't hit the side of a barn. AJ just happened to be the one that took the most shots and couldn't hit the side of the barn the most.....0-5 ( some 2pt some 3pt ) FG attempts sucks out loud.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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