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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

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  • #1

    Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

    This concept has been discussed here and there this year, but last nights games--both the Pacers and the Pistons--give me reason to think that the theory that the Pistons peaked too early may have a lot of merit.

    All you avid Pacers fans: I'm sure you can clearly remember the past three or four years where we start strong at the beginning of the year and the Pistons seem like a fuster-cluck in chaos, even with the great Larry Brown at the helm.

    But, year end and year out, the tides would slowly change during the season. Some of those years, I was just convinced that Detroit was finally declining. Then, sure enough, the steady, persistant, fundamentals-focused Brown would get them in position for a strong run at just the right time late in the season.

    Last night those of us with Direct TV were able to see the Pistons lose somewhat handily to the Nuggets. What was interesting to me was that Denver figured out how much the Pistons cheat upward on defense and force turnovers--(and more power to them if they are not kept honest). But Denver must have executed, literally, 20 or more alley-oop passes last night overtop the cheating defense.

    Teams are starting to decode some of the Piston's secrets. This is one example of many trends that make me think Detroit is in for a difficult rest of the year. Here are some others:

    1. Every team is shooting for the Pistons now, because of their starting so strong in the beginning. Atlanta can rarely put it all together, but they do for the Pistons. The Nuggets crowd goes crazy after beating them and its only a non-conference, regular season game. Besides going to the playoffs, the biggest thing you can do during the regular season now is beat the Pistons. Obviously, this forces Detroit to play at a strenuos high level all season--unlike their competitiors--and has the potential to really wear them down.

    2. The technicals and flangrants and other attitude issues are really starting to increase. That can't continue if they expect to focus on winning and good basketball.

    3. Speaking of good basketball, everybody has been just plain giddy about their free-flowing offense and high winning percentage, etc. But what I see is a team that has been let free by the coach to go their own way. At first it looks great, and many people probably still agree that amnesty from Larry Brown's chains is a great thing.

    I see the exact opposite. LB would not approve of the less-disciplined offense. Many three are being jacked up before better percentage shots are explored. I have already mentioned the cheating on defense that ultimately can get you in trouble, and I don't think larry would put up with as much attitudinal and technical foul activity. This is going to catch up with them in the playoffs. I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.

    Now, with the Pacers, we have a different trend. Mind you, I don't think we are as good as the Pistons. But we are in a position to have better momentum. And with a few things going our way, we could beat them in the playoffs.

    Last night's win demonstrated, to me, the opposite of the slow deterioration of fundamentals that I see with the Pistons. We cranked and cranked and cranked last night, down about five to ten the entire time, but continued to play solid defense, work for high percentage shots, and, most importantly, actually hit our free throws. (That last point may have been a fluke. Let's watch and see.)

    Ultimately, we persevered and won the game. Nothing flashy, no big runs. Just solid fundamental basketball and good coaching--the kind players hate but is ultimately good for them, the kind of coaching Larry Brown provides and players try to shuck off.

    One last point. The Pistons have been very lucky in that none of their starters have gotten injured. This may last, but percentages say its unlikely. And even if not, for reasons stated above their starters will be worn down come playoff time. The Pacers have been forced to develop the ability to rotate players and learn the flexibility to work together and win with strange and unfamiliar line-ups.

    The Pistons haven't. If circumstances force them to do so, it will only increase the chances that they have, in fact, peaked too early.

    With a few more tweaks and continued rapid development by our newbies (Hulk, Granger, Saras), the Pacers are poised to peak late. Go Pacers!
    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

    I've got a theory, but I'm not saying it until I hear Kstat's.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

      Well, the Pistons did kinda peak early. There was not much place to go but down from where they started. However, the Pistons are generally better in the playoffs, though with their defense not quite as good as the past couple seasons, they may have a slightly harder time winning games if their offense isn't clicking. They're also giving their bench more minutes, so that will help the starters to be more rested when the playoffs roll around.

      The Pistons are still the best team in the East (maybe the entire NBA, though I like Dallas's chances with them head-to-head), so it's theirs to win or give away at this point.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

        It will take the Pistons some time to gel after losing Darko....





















        -Bball
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

          I believe that the Pistons will be ready and now they can afford to rest their starter a little with their lead. Give them awhile longer and we will know for sure.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

            Originally posted by McKeyFan
            I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.
            For some reason, I highly doubt that.

            Anyway, I agree with half of your argument. I too believe that the Pacers are poised for a late surge (especially if we are able to assimilate Jermaine and Jamaal into the lineup). Adding two players of their calibur into the mix can certainly spark things (although, it could potentially have a negative impact). However, at this point, the more playing time Granger and Harrison get, the better our team becomes.

            As for the Pistons, I had my mind made up at the start of this year that Detroit would win it all. I remember getting into little disputes with foretaz during the offseason, that Detroit would still be looking at another NBA Championship, but he raised some of the same points that you are saying now.

            I just don't see it. They have the best starting five, bar none. The best starting five I have ever seen, to be honest. Their chemistry is just beyond ridiculous, and that is one thing that will illuminate most come playoff time at the expense of their opponents. Chemistry is so underrated today (not to mention playoff experience). These Pistons know what it's all about.

            I'm also not afraid to say that they have the necessary pieces coming off the bench. Sure, they're nothing flashy...but during the playoffs, you don't need extreme depth. You need a few guys who can instantly come into the game and help out, and I think Delfino, Hunter, Dale, McDyess are all guys who can fill that void perfectly and on a consistent basis.

            It's almost as if every time the Pistons lose a game, everyone sits back and hopes that "maybe this is a sign!" But let's face it...it's not. Those guys are the ultimate professionals, and have given us no reason to believe that they're just all of a sudden going to faulter.

            I will restate my original prediction, that the Pistons will win it all this year. Teams that have demonstrated what they have up to this point just won't choke during the playoffs in my opinion.

            From the opposition's perspective, about the only positive that I can come away with is that Darko is no longer on their team.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

              My hope is that the Pistons this year are like the colts this year, and will have a similar fate come playoff time....but I don't really believe they will lose early in the playoffs like the Colts did. They seem to have a lot of good fortune go their way, the law of averages may catch up to them, but I'm not holding my breath.

              Teams do seem to cycle up and down every few years, ie the Nets back to back finals appearance and then down they went, the Lakers after the Shaq trade, still waiting for the Spurs to go down and the Pistons may also if they get a key injury or something breaks up their core group.

              I would be surprised if the Pistons don't make the finals, although I really hope they don't.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                Pistons will be fine.... come playoff time. They are built for the playoffs.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                  It is right! I deleted my previous post because I thought this stat had to be wrong but its not so I'll repost my original post.

                  You know what's a weird stat? (Don't take this as an overall reply to the thread, its just something I happened to look up). The Pacers and the Pistons have the exact same number of Techs and Flagrant Fouls - 51 and 1.
                  http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/sortabl...dir=descending

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                    I don't really think they are going to decline. Flip will play them less time in the last few weeks if they begin to get tired and play badly. The Pistons have one of the weakest benches in the NBA however which could come back to haunt them. The only player on that team that I think they could do decent enough without is Ben Wallace..If they lose anyone else to an injury, they are in deep trouble for the playoffs. Not that theres anything to be nervous about..they've had the same lineup intact for the past 2 years or so.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                      "The Pacers and Pistons have the same amount of technicals and flagrant fouls."

                      The issue is trends. Ours came more early in the season, IIRC, especially Jax various tirades, which have subsided of late.

                      The Pistons are trending opposite: more have occured in the past three weeks, it seems, than the first three months of season.
                      "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                        Let's not jump the gun here.....

                        Despite the recent loss to Denver.....we all know that the Pistons are a machine that appears to be able to "turn it off" and "turn it on" when needed.

                        For the Pacers.....despite how we are doing and the progress in Granger and Harrison......we still have ZERO idea how good or bad we are gonna do once we integrate Tinsley, Croshere and JONeal into the offense.

                        I hope that we are not underestimating what the Pistons are capable of and overestimating what the Pacers are capable of based off of recent history.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                          Originally posted by CableKC
                          Let's not jump the gun here.....

                          Despite the recent loss to Denver.....we all know that the Pistons are a machine that appears to be able to "turn it off" and "turn it on" when needed.

                          For the Pacers.....despite how we are doing and the progress in Granger and Harrison......we still have ZERO idea how good or bad we are gonna do once we integrate Tinsley, Croshere and JONeal into the offense.

                          I hope that we are not underestimating what the Pistons are capable of and overestimating what the Pacers are capable of based off of recent history.

                          I have no idea whether the Pissons have peaked or not. But I can say with certainty that one of the sure signs of a team in decline is beginning to count on being able to "turn it on" when the "time comes". That only works for awhile. (not that I'm thinking they have been doing that, just responding to your post)

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                            at this thead.

                            THe Pistons lose one game after the all-star break, and it's because we've "peaked,' and "everybody knows our weakness now"......

                            I've never seen so much wishful thinking in a single thread in all my life.

                            Last night those of us with Direct TV were able to see the Pistons lose somewhat handily to the Nuggets. What was interesting to me was that Denver figured out how much the Pistons cheat upward on defense and force turnovers--(and more power to them if they are not kept honest). But Denver must have executed, literally, 20 or more alley-oop passes last night overtop the cheating defense.
                            Try 12, chief.

                            And Denver throws that many alley-oops almost every game, It's not as if they tried something new with us.

                            1. Every team is shooting for the Pistons now, because of their starting so strong in the beginning. Atlanta can rarely put it all together, but they do for the Pistons. The Nuggets crowd goes crazy after beating them and its only a non-conference, regular season game. Besides going to the playoffs, the biggest thing you can do during the regular season now is beat the Pistons. Obviously, this forces Detroit to play at a strenuos high level all season--unlike their competitiors--and has the potential to really wear them down.
                            Congratulations on proving we're a popular team.

                            Good point on the wear-down effect, you know cause it sure has worked on the Spurs, Lakers and Bulls....

                            2. The technicals and flangrants and other attitude issues are really starting to increase. That can't continue if they expect to focus on winning and good basketball.
                            Flagrants have increased...from 0 to 1! Oh NOOOOOOO!

                            I see the exact opposite. LB would not approve of the less-disciplined offense. Many three are being jacked up before better percentage shots are explored. I have already mentioned the cheating on defense that ultimately can get you in trouble, and I don't think larry would put up with as much attitudinal and technical foul activity. This is going to catch up with them in the playoffs. I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.
                            Yeah, we're scoring more points and ALLOWING FEWER POINTS, but yeah, this is such an awful style we run. Another great point.

                            One last point. The Pistons have been very lucky in that none of their starters have gotten injured. This may last, but percentages say its unlikely. And even if not, for reasons stated above their starters will be worn down come playoff time. The Pacers have been forced to develop the ability to rotate players and learn the flexibility to work together and win with strange and unfamiliar line-ups.
                            ....and going on the last two years, Indiana winning with multiple rotations sure has spelled doom for the Pistons in the playoffs.....

                            The issue is trends.
                            Here's a trend for you, and it's been going on a lot longer than the ones you mentioned: 47-10.

                            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?

                              Originally posted by Kstat
                              at this thead.

                              THe Pistons lose one game after the all-star break, and it's because we've "peaked,' and "everybody knows our weakness now"......

                              Comment

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