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Thread: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

  1. #1
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    http://www.nypost.com/sports/63247.htm

    February 9, 2006 -- The Nets' Vince Carter and four Pistons are among the seven Eastern All-Star reserves to be officially announced today, The Post has learned.
    But in a huge surprise, the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas, the fifth-leading scorer in the league, was left off the reserve squad in voting by Eastern coaches.

    That could be remedied, however, when Commissioner David Stern personally selects the replacement for injured starter Jermaine O'Neal of the Pacers.

    Carter joins Pistons Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton as reserves.

    Tayshaun Prince is the only Piston starter not selected.

    Also on the East's reserve squad are two surprises, from struggling teams Paul Pierce of the Celtics and Chris Bosh of the Raptors.

    Besides O'Neal, fans voted as East starters: Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade of the Heat, LeBron James of the Cavs and Allen Iverson of the Sixers.



    The West starters are Houston's Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant of the Lakers, Tim Duncan of the Spurs and Steve Nash of the Suns.

    The West reserves were not available.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Hmmm, it made me sad somewhat.
    Firstly, Prince is my favorite Piston. Besides Rasheed, but him I liked since the Blazers period. Well, but that's mostly sentiments, not arguments-based attitude.

    Secondly, in a more argumentative fashion, isn't there anyone more worthy of selection than Paul Pierce? Like Redd, Howard, Ilgauskas?
    Especially Redd and Big Z. Both of them are in good team with a good shot to win the title. Both of them might be in their best periods of career. Redd has improved in almost every statistical field and he is very important in close games.
    Ilgauskas has largely identical statistics to those of the same point last year, except that he has much better FG % this year. Those should go up eventually after the All-star break as they do each year for Ilgauskas; he always has a statistically-better second half of the season due to the fact that he has to rest his feet in the off-season and starts the season rather slowly. Also, he can score 30 points when his team needs it and LeBron's shot isn't falling, and is the 2nd most important person of that team, currently above .600. Finally, he's a great FT shooter and is given the ball at the end of close games, when oponents are expected to charge Cavs. He has already made many such points this year.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Arenas not on the team? That's a travesty. Swiss Express, the two candidates you mention are both deserving. I particularly agree about Z. You make good points about him and his value to that team. He's also a solid shot blocker and passer. He's just got a great all-around game. Since he' a true C, though, Shaq or Big Ben would have been displaced. What's Z's case in comparison to them?

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    Secondly, in a more argumentative fashion, isn't there anyone more worthy of selection than Paul Pierce? Like Redd, Howard, Ilgauskas?
    Especially Redd and Big Z.
    Not only is Pierce better than all those guys, he's having a career year.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    All 3 of them were there last year. All had enough of time to show their skills. Ilgauskas was played alongside LeBron last year, and that was more interesting to watch than any other duo in that game. Of course, that team this year also has Wade-Shaq duo and the 4 Pistons composition which might also be impressive.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Not only is Pierce better than all those guys, he's having a career year.
    A Stephon Marbury-type career year, to be more specific..

  7. #7

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Marbury has never once led his team in rebounds, points, assists, and regularly defended the primary scorer on the other team.

    Redd's a very nice shooter. Z does take up space and make open shots in a world without opposing centers.

    Pierce is more deserving and is a much more complete player.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Only player I feel bad for is Arenas, and I'm %90 sure Stern will name him as JO's replacement anyway.

    You could make an argument for Howard, but he's only 20. Hard to feel for a kid who's got at least a dozen all-star appearances left in his career.

    In any case, this was a great statement day for team basketball.

    I'm sorry, but Billups and Hamilton have been screwed over too many times already. It's our turn now.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    No argument from me on the four Pistons making the All-Star team. Billups used to be the most underrated player in the league, or maybe it was Rasheed Wallace. Not sure. Now it is Tayshaun Prince. Hate to give so much props to the Pistons, but right is right: Detroit's starting five deserves every bit of recognition it is getting. Now, may the inevitable deterioration of the team begin.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    Marbury has never once led his team in rebounds, points, assists, and regularly defended the primary scorer on the other team.

    Redd's a very nice shooter. Z does take up space and make open shots in a world without opposing centers.

    Pierce is more deserving and is a much more complete player.
    Indeed, the Marbury/Peirce comparison is a very poor one. Pierce's problem has always been that he didn't take over enough and that he needed a solid #2 for his confidence as much as his game. Marbury would rather there not be two other guys on his team (that way he gets more time with the ball). The Celtics aren't losing because of Pierce, they are losing because of Rivers.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    Marbury has never once led his team in rebounds, points, assists, and regularly defended the primary scorer on the other team.

    Redd's a very nice shooter. Z does take up space and make open shots in a world without opposing centers.

    Pierce is more deserving and is a much more complete player.
    Ok, so the argument for Pierce is: 1. he's a statistically-better Marbury. 2. a statistically-better Marbury deserves recognition more than guys who (a) win much more games and make clutch plays but are shooters
    (by the way, you'd have to explain me why Redd is one-dimensional for a SG while he has 4-5 rebounds and 3 APG), (b) win much more games and make clutch plays but are centers.

    I won't argue with this anymore as our attitudes seem to rely on differing believes, not simply on different arguments. I simply prefer winners over a bit better statistical players. I would even put Prince over Pierce, even though statistical difference is huge.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool
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    Indeed, the Marbury/Peirce comparison is a very poor one. Pierce's problem has always been that he didn't take over enough and that he needed a solid #2 for his confidence as much as his game. Marbury would rather there not be two other guys on his team (that way he gets more time with the ball). The Celtics aren't losing because of Pierce, they are losing because of Rivers.
    They are loosing. Badly. While he's good statistically. Those are only pieces of information I provide with the Marbury comparison. I won't speculate on who of them needs ball more; to my opinion, popular views of particular loosing players being more selfish than other loosing players very much depend on the period of time those players have been losing.

    The comparison might have been unjust last year, when he did have that #2 in Walker. But that's no excuse to put someone over players who play better this year.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    I must have missed all those times Redd has carried the Bucks into the playoffs, like Pierce has. The Celtics are rebuilding this year and playing young guys. And it's not like they are at extreme opposite ends in terms of team success. 6 1/2 games separate Milwaukee and Boston.

    If you have the ball in a tie game and you can get the ball to Redd or Pierce, who would you prefer to have it? I'd only prefer Redd if I knew it was going to be a wide open jumper. Otherwise PP. The Bucks prefer to go to Mo Williams! Redd's a terrific player and getting better. He's in the discussion of being almost as good as Pierce now. I'd like to see Redd on the Olympic team.

    Actually I'd have no problem with picking Prince over Pierce, if you truly want to reward contributions to team success.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Not only is Pierce better than all those guys, he's having a career year.
    Boston is 18-31. If that's a career year, then that's a pretty sad career.

    The most important stat -- ultimately the only one that should matter -- is wins and losses. That is the reason that four Pistons were name as reserves. The object of the game is to WIN, not to put up individual stats.

    I don't think ANY player from a team with a losing record should be eligible to play in the all-star game.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Munson
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    I don't think ANY player from a team with a losing record should be eligible to play in the all-star game.
    So 3 games ago when the Pacers had a losing record and JO was tabbed a starter, he should have been ruled ineligible?


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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    So 3 games ago when the Pacers had a losing record and JO was tabbed a starter, he should have been ruled ineligible?

    Yes.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    The Bucks prefer to go to Mo Williams!
    Can't argue with that too fierlessly as I have missed way too many of their games this season. In few I saw, however, Redd was very important during last minutes.

    PS: definition of "clutch player" as a player "whom you get a ball to during the last play" is not one I could agree with. The ball should move, it shouldn't just be given for one player till he's open and can make that "wide open jumper" or a similar shot.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Why does every freakin' person love Rashweed? He's a punk (although I'd say the same about Ben)... I'm just amazed how everybody loves the guy.

    I'm officially NOT going to watch the game this year...unless Stern picks a Pacer, I'm not interested in watching the Pistons/Lebron vs. the Western Allstars...I'm sorry, I just don't think I could stomach it. Tayshaun is the only fun player on the Pistons to watch and (as I mentioned above) Rasheed and Ben just make me sick. I think my deep-rooted hate for Rasheed comes from the fact the after the "guaran-sheed" victory in Game 2 he yelled out, "I told you! You SOBs" (he actually said it...)

  19. #19

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    So 3 games ago when the Pacers had a losing record and JO was tabbed a starter, he should have been ruled ineligible?

    Well, maybe he should have? As well as T-Mac, Yao.

    Pacers' situation isn't comparable to Boston's, however.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersandIU
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    Why does every freakin' person love Rashweed? He's a punk (although I'd say the same about Ben)... I'm just amazed how everybody loves the guy.
    I guess you didn't ask MY opinion, because I hate ***-Weed. No other NBA player sickens me more.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Congratulations to Bosh. He has really worked hard on his game over the last year specifically, and he deserves this honour.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Congratulations to Bosh. He has really worked hard on his game over the last year specifically, and he deserves this honour.
    Yes, that's one exception to the rule "miserable record - no All-Stars" I'd agree with. They did have a tough start and they will have some really bad memories from some games, but they are getting better, they started winning nearly every second game during recent monthes, and Bosh was instrumental in that. They are young, but they do have some mental strength. They are not going to "give up", as Larry Brown said in respect of his own team.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    They are loosing. Badly. While he's good statistically. Those are only pieces of information I provide with the Marbury comparison. I won't speculate on who of them needs ball more; to my opinion, popular views of particular loosing players being more selfish than other loosing players very much depend on the period of time those players have been losing.
    Too bad you are responding to the post of one person's oppinion of Peirce which comes from watching him play (not from parroting the general masses). But thanks for dismissing me as mere rabble.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    The comparison might have been unjust last year, when he did have that #2 in Walker. But that's no excuse to put someone over players who play better this year.
    The comparions isn't "unjust" its simply bad. And none of the players on your list is playing "better" (a term we are all using in a highly subjective manner, even when going by stats) then Peirce.

    Its fine with me if you want to rewrite the rules to say that only teams with winning records deserve "all-star" players. But a team being bad doesn't mean that a player is bad.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool
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    Too bad you are responding to the post of one person's oppinion of Peirce which comes from watching him play (not from parroting the general masses). But thanks for dismissing me as mere rabble.



    The comparions isn't "unjust" its simply bad. And none of the players on your list is playing "better" (a term we are all using in a highly subjective manner, even when going by stats) then Peirce.

    Its fine with me if you want to rewrite the rules to say that only teams with winning records deserve "all-star" players. But a team being bad doesn't mean that a player is bad.
    Hmmm, I think everything already said in this thread form a sufficient response to what you say, and there's no need to repeat it all. I just want to say that I didn't want to be offensive in respect of you personally, to call you "rabble" or somehow else. If you or anyone else got that impression - I am sorry.

    You must understand, however, that I can't somehow foresee when you are simply using some popular statements because they are popular and when you have personal experience of watching games behind it. I will always doubt popular statements unless they are backed up with arguments/experience at the very moment they are stated.

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    Default Re: Vecsey} East All Star Reserves Named

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersandIU
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    Why does every freakin' person love Rashweed? He's a punk (although I'd say the same about Ben)... I'm just amazed how everybody loves the guy.

    I'm officially NOT going to watch the game this year...unless Stern picks a Pacer, I'm not interested in watching the Pistons/Lebron vs. the Western Allstars...I'm sorry, I just don't think I could stomach it. Tayshaun is the only fun player on the Pistons to watch and (as I mentioned above) Rasheed and Ben just make me sick. I think my deep-rooted hate for Rasheed comes from the fact the after the "guaran-sheed" victory in Game 2 he yelled out, "I told you! You SOBs" (he actually said it...)

    "Remember the pain of my fist. That is my power!"
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