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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Are we too hard/picky?

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  • Are we too hard/picky?

    One of the arguments against the importance of our 61 win season was that it was a weak East.

    OK.

    BUT, look what I found.

    Everyone would agree that the 1986 Celtics were a great team, right? The Lakers were damn good too, correct? After all, Boston won 67 games that year, and LA 62.

    Guess what. In the East, only THREE teams had a winning record. The #8 seed was Chicago with a horrible 30 wins. The 6th and 7th seeds won 39 games each.

    Out West must have been different, right? Not really. 6 winning teams. The 7th and 8th seeds won 37 and 35 games "respectively".

    Even that crappy Celtics team we swept in 2004 won 36 games (6 more than the '86 8th seed Bulls).

    I have to conclude one of two things here. Either we're entirely too hard on ourselves today, or we're far too soft on the past.

  • #2
    Re: Are we too hard/picky?

    Neither.

    The top 1/4 of the NBA back then was stacked with great players. It wasn't that the bad teams were that bad, it was that the good teams were just great.

    If you check the bottom of the standings, almost all the bad teams had at least one great player on them as well.

    the 30-win bulls had Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge, and they only won 30 games because Jordan missed 70 games with a sprained ankle.

    The 23-win Knicks had Patrick Ewing and Bernard King, two of the all-time greats.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are we too hard/picky?

      I think folks are too hard on the present.

      People keep downplaying the 61-win season. After all, the Western Conference was the stronger conference that year, right? The East was weak!

      But just like every other time that I see one of these threads mention the 61-win season and the possibility of downplaying it, I will continue to point out that the Pacers were the strongest regular season team that year, period. We had a better record against the WC teams than did any team from the WD itself. We had a better record against any division than any team within the division itself.

      But Kstat is definitely right. Several years ago, the NBA was extremely inbalanced, year after year after year. Despite the record that the Pistons have this season, there is better parity across the top 1/2 to 3/4 of the league now than there has ever been.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are we too hard/picky?

        I think a great deal of these types of arguments are brought on my "Devil's Advocate" threads. If somebody says that Jeff Foster is a great rebounder, somebody just as quickly will pipe in that he pads his stats with his awful shot. However, much like your scenario, rarely is the same test applied evenly. I'd venture to say that most rebounding specialists aren't great shooters (Ben Wallace, Dale Davis, Dennis Rodman, etc.)

        Part of it is fun, because looking at dissenting opinions will either increase your support of your current position or make you reconsider. But some of the things get a bit ridiculous at times.
        “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
        motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
        Reggie Miller

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        • #5
          Re: Are we too hard/picky?

          Originally posted by Kstat
          Neither.

          The top 1/4 of the NBA back then was stacked with great players. It wasn't that the bad teams were that bad, it was that the good teams were just great.

          If you check the bottom of the standings, almost all the bad teams had at least one great player on them as well.

          the 30-win bulls had Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge, and they only won 30 games because Jordan missed 70 games with a sprained ankle.

          The 23-win Knicks had Patrick Ewing and Bernard King, two of the all-time greats.
          Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge? Great players?

          And on another note, in ten years we'll be able to look back and name "great players" on most 2005-2006 NBA teams because we will recognize them from their entire career. There are players on the Chicago Bulls, Washington Wizards, etc. who are now early in their careers or simply haven't been recognized as "great" just yet.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are we too hard/picky?

            YES
            You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Are we too hard/picky?

              Originally posted by stipo
              Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge? Great players?

              And on another note, in ten years we'll be able to look back and name "great players" on most 2005-2006 NBA teams because we will recognize them from their entire career. There are players on the Chicago Bulls, Washington Wizards, etc. who are now early in their careers or simply haven't been recognized as "great" just yet.
              Who called either player "great?"

              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                Originally posted by Kstat
                If you check the bottom of the standings, almost all the bad teams had at least one great player on them as well.

                the 30-win bulls had Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge, and they only won 30 games because Jordan missed 70 games with a sprained ankle.
                You have to admit, it looks like you're implying that either Charles Oakley or Orlando Woolridge is a great player.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                  Originally posted by rabidpacersfan
                  You have to admit, it looks like you're implying that either Charles Oakley or Orlando Woolridge is a great player.
                  .

                  Well, there was that "Jordan" guy.....

                  Nah, I must have been referring to Oakley and Woolridge. SIlly me.

                  It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                  Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                  Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                  NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                    You are forgetting one simple thing. The weak/strong East/West argument is ridiculous if you judge only by the number of wins.

                    Clearly, if one team has 60 wins, lots of others will have loosing record. May be you can judge West against East, but not the way you done.
                    The East had low number of teams with winning record during Indiana 61 winning game season because they lost to Indiana! The same applies to 1986. So you can say that the teams with winning record above 60 are better relative to other teams playing at the same time. However, you can't say anything about those teams with loosing records relative to todays. Thats a simle math.

                    So all this weak/strong arguments are not right IMO. What I can say as a fan, is that basketball was more enterntaining back in 80's. Today teams Vs 80-90's are winning in athletism but loosing in skill IMO.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                      Originally posted by Kstat
                      .

                      Well, there was that "Jordan" guy.....

                      Nah, I must have been referring to Oakley and Woolridge. SIlly me.
                      Well, I don't know why you mentioned the other two,
                      but ANYway....Jordan was the Kobe of his day back then (minus the bad reputation). In fact Kobe is scarier now scoring-wise than Jordan at that time IMO, but Kobe's team still stinks. So looking back in twenty years we'll see the great Kobe Bryant on a bad Lakers team (along with Odom, who we ALSO may see as great depending on how his career pans out). Will we say,"Wow!The competition must have been fantastic back then, the Lakers couldn't even win with those two on the roster!" History is funny that way.


                      Oh, yeah, and Lithfan, I'm no good at math, but your reasoning seems excellent to me. There are only so many wins to go, around so to speak.
                      And as far as the 80's style of play--I miss it so much it hurts!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                        Originally posted by beast23
                        But just like every other time that I see one of these threads mention the 61-win season and the possibility of downplaying it, I will continue to point out that the Pacers were the strongest regular season team that year, period. We had a better record against the WC teams than did any team from the WD itself. We had a better record against any division than any team within the division itself.
                        When reviewing the weekly Power Rankings that year, it annoyed me that the Pacers could never seem to get the No. 1 spot because of constant focus by the writers of the overall weakness in the East. The Twolves, Kings, Lakers and Spurs took turns rotating throughout the top 5 over the Pacers, who were routinely ranked No. 2. When the Pacers went out West and won 3 of 4 over top teams, their sole loss would be emphasized. By season's end, the Pistons and Rasheed had come on strong, but they too were regarded as inferior by the ranking writers.

                        I know, it serves me for caring at all about so shallow a thing as the Power Rankings back then, but beast's post reminded me of an annoying memory of that season.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                          ^^^^
                          Yeah, I've learned that no matter how good your team is, you don't ever think you get the national respect you deserve. (Unless the team is the Colts, then all the attention becomes embarrassing in the end).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                            Are we too hard/picky?
                            Hell yes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Are we too hard/picky?

                              When you show me people picking on the Pacers *after* they've won a championship, at that time the answer is "yes."

                              Until then, it seems to me that the average Pacers fan isn't really demanding a championship. They're demanding entertaining, or a certain style of play that appeals to "Hoosiers." Or they're demanding a contender. Or they're demanding a team that they can still afford tickets to see.

                              I'd say we are still too soft on them, if anything. Too many fans are still making excuses for them.

                              I'm not saying the PD community reflects the average Pacers fan, BTW. Now, if we had 15,000 season ticket holders on here, that might be different.
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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